Leak Updates

[jntdroid]

JNT:

You sure about that with the Droid 1? I've been reading it's a case of a missing driver, not a hardware issue.

Well I was as sure as what I had read recently, until you asked.

I'll have to see if I can find the stuff I read on that, but I remember reading that though we can obviously wifi tether now, it's not technically a mobile hotspot, and the hardware doesn't support a true mobile hotspot. I'll do some digging...

I agree with pandemic, though, even if true, it sounded like an excuse.

 

[TheOldFart]

@TheOldFart;

Without empirical evidence, blaming a crummy signal on people violating their TOS instead of just blaming it on more users period is a bit judgemental.

99%+ of Droid users don't root, and even rooters don't all tether. I'm sure the majority of people on that campus use the campus-based hard-wired or wireless networks, which are up to 100X as fast as 3G.

Perhaps, perhaps not. All I know is that in January, speedtest gave me download speeds of 0.82, 1.18 and 2.42. Last month it was 0.49 and this morning it is 0.36 and 0.31 Mbps. However, when we have had people on this board alone bragging that they use 56 GB monthly tethering the entire family playing games, it certainly can't help the situation.

 

[Backnblack]

However, when we have had people on this board alone bragging that they use 56 GB monthly tethering the entire family playing games, it certainly can't help the situation.

Thats a BS statement if there ever was one.....

 

[TheOldFart]

@TheOldFart;

Without empirical evidence, blaming a crummy signal on people violating their TOS instead of just blaming it on more users period is a bit judgemental.

99%+ of Droid users don't root, and even rooters don't all tether. I'm sure the majority of people on that campus use the campus-based hard-wired or wireless networks, which are up to 100X as fast as 3G.

Perhaps, perhaps not. All I know is that in January, speedtest gave me download speeds of 0.82, 1.18 and 2.42. Last month it was 0.49 and this morning it is 0.36 and 0.31 Mbps. However, when we have had people on this board alone bragging that they use 56 GB monthly tethering the entire family playing games, it certainly can't help the situation.

The other thing is do universities block the same types of sites that most companies and public wifi spots block. For instance, the company that I used to work for and the local large supermarket not only block porn sites, but even any site that discusses sex and the downloading of any movies. If the university does this then I can see a lot of students tethering to access porn sites or watch movies. I'm certainly not against porn or movies. I am just getting sick of the slow access that I am having the past months.

 

[TheOldFart]

However, when we have had people on this board alone bragging that they use 56 GB monthly tethering the entire family playing games, it certainly can't help the situation.

Thats a BS statement if there ever was one.....

BS yourself. One poster said this a couple of months ago and even a couple of regulars criticized him. If I can find the post and discussion I'll shove it down your throat in a second.

 

[TheOldFart]

However, when we have had people on this board alone bragging that they use 56 GB monthly tethering the entire family playing games, it certainly can't help the situation.

Thats a BS statement if there ever was one.....

BS yourself. One poster said this a couple of months ago and even a couple of regulars criticized him. If I can find the post and discussion I'll shove it down your throat in a second.

Haven't found the old one yet, but check this one:

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/dr...32-how-much-data-do-you-use-each-month-2.html

Post 19 - 28 GB
Post 23 - 35-40 GB

 

[jntdroid]

I don't see how anybody can use that much data without melting their phone. Mine gets really hot while wifi tethering.

 

[BeaverPuncher]

Thats a BS statement if there ever was one.....

BS yourself. One poster said this a couple of months ago and even a couple of regulars criticized him. If I can find the post and discussion I'll shove it down your throat in a second.

Haven't found the old one yet, but check this one:

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/dr...32-how-much-data-do-you-use-each-month-2.html

Post 19 - 28 GB
Post 23 - 35-40 GB

and they all received phone calls whether they admit it or not.

 

[furbearingmammal]

I don't see how anybody can use that much data without melting their phone. Mine gets really hot while wifi tethering.

Mine too, but not so hot it trips the failsafe profile.

I use ~10GB a month tethering, considering I have no other options besides satellite for broadband internet access where I live and, well, you can see why I don't want to pay $70+ a month for crappy, laggy service, only to have them then charge me more for overages after throttling me back to the point I might as well be on dialup anyway. I'm paying for unlimited data, etc. etc. Let's not start that argument again at this point.

If it's on ALL THE TIME and never gets used for calls, etc., it's possible. I downloaded a few movies one day and I got my total up to about 700MB, but I also don't have the best signal here. Whoever was doing over 50GB had to have been in a very good signal location.

But I agree, that's just excessive and wrong and spoils it for those of us not massively abusing the system. As far as I'm concerned, if it's possible to hit that with normal usage then there should be no complaint if I'm diverting the data to my PC instead of using it exclusively on my phone. If I were to stream music through Slacker or Pandora 24/7 I'd be hitting about the same level as I'm hitting for use now, if calculations are correct.

And as to the campuses blocking sites, most of them still refuse to do anything for fear of free speech lawsuits, and the kiddies sometimes need access to sites discussing sex so they can do research for projects. As for torrents and movie downloads, well, torrents have legitimate uses as well; open source software is often disseminated that way to save on server costs. Open Office, for example, uses this method whenever possible.

 

[jntdroid]

JNT:

You sure about that with the Droid 1? I've been reading it's a case of a missing driver, not a hardware issue.

here's a start:

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/dr...ware-support-mobile-hotspot-2.html#post690460

 

[furbearingmammal]

Interesting. I have a USB stick WiFi adapter for my desktop that works as an AP if I tell the software to do so. I just couldn't get a Vista laptop to connect to my XP box and get online via my dialup connection through internet sharing. I understand that's not something most people could easily accomplish, so I gave up on the project after I got my Droid, rooted it, and WiFi tethered.

I remember reading someone did get infrastructure mode out of their WiFi tethering app on either the G1 or some other older phone, but they had to edit some stuff deep in the system to do so. I wish I could dig the link up, because it was a very short, to-the-point read that might have shed some light on the subject.

 

[TheCrusher]

Let me try to be more explicit on the bootloader issue.

If the bootloader (or at least the public key) is stored in some writable space (and it obviously is, since OTA updates change it), then how hard is it to replace the bootloader (or at least, the public key)?

If you can change the public key, you can build ROMs and sign them to your hearts content, because it's your own key that's going to check them.

So what am I missing?

 

[dbn]

I think this is correct and, as far as I am concerned, I will welcome it. The Droid I got last November was my first smartphone. The internet connection was faster than I expected and I was very happy with it. Now, 9 months later, it has slowed greatly. It has been getting slower and slower over the past few months. I suspect this is because of the number of people violating the TOS and tethering all day or perhaps just streaming a lot of movies. Of course, the later does not violate the TOS AFAIK. I live next to a university and the antenna that I normally connect to is at the university. I'm sure that the illegal usage there is very high. I will be very happy if it is stopped and my service is back to what it was when I signed the contract.

Which has jack to do with rooting the device since you can tether with a stock phone from any number of applications available from the Android Market.

 

[MotoCache1]

Let me try to be more explicit on the bootloader issue.

If the bootloader (or at least the public key) is stored in some writable space (and it obviously is, since OTA updates change it), then how hard is it to replace the bootloader (or at least, the public key)?

If you can change the public key, you can build ROMs and sign them to your hearts content, because it's your own key that's going to check them.

So what am I missing?

I don't know how much you know about public key encryption, so forgive me if I'm telling you things that are obvious. If I were the Motorola design team making this phone, and I was told that we have a stipulation in our contract with Verizon that provides that if this bootloader is ever compromised we are liable to them for liquidated damages in the amount of 300 million dollars (I made that up, it's not real, but I could see it being the case), then here's how I'd design it. The folks at Motorola are a lot smarter than me, so I'm sure they did this at a minimum, and probably more...

Even if you are going to put the public keys in a writeable space so they can be updated OTA, just like files can be signed, so too can (and are) the public keys themselves. This is how companies like Verisign, CA Trust, etc. make money selling SSL certificates (for people who run web servers). I can generate a SSL certificate all by myself if I want to. However your browser is hard coded to only trust SSL certificates that are signed by various certifying authorities. If you try to come to my SSL secured website that offers my self-generated and self-signed certificate, your browser will warn you that it doesn't trust the certifying authority and give you the option to proceed or not.

I guarantee you that the bootloader in the DX will only accept keys signed by a very small list of authorities, and I guarantee you the public keys for those accepted signing authorities are burned onto the chip and not writable.

So, sure, you can change the the public keys in the OTA flashable list, but if they aren't signed by a key in the burned in list, it would be ignored.

 

[Spyte]

Neither Motorola, Google, nor Verizon have ever said "Here's your phone. oh, and please hack it til your eyes bleed." I would bet money that at least one person in at least one of those companies decided to release a phone, sit back and watch what the community did, and only then work to plug up whatever holes, leaks, tweaks and other shenanigans came about. they get free beta, and better more secure/hack proof phones to boot.

it is probably some sort of truism that anything can be hacked eventually. why not throw a phone or two to the wolves and see what happens? fix those problems and presto chango, we have a phone to rival blackberry for enterprise use, and we make the wireless companies happy because we have more secure phones that they can make more money from.

in my opinion, it was only a matter of time before they started locking the phones down. just as it is also only a matter of time before someone opens them back up again. of course, there is also the possibility that my mother was a hamster and my father smelt of elderberries.