HTC Locking Phones Now Like Motorola

[AngDroid]

If it weren't for the "Oh noes, I messed up my device screwing with custom ROMs and now it doesn't work. How can I lie to my carrier to get them to replace my device for free?" mentality; we wouldn't be facing problems like this.

I honestly think these things are being locked down because of rampant warranty fraud.

I kinda agree with this. as i've read through threads, i've seen a lot of people saying they're on their 3rd or 4th replacement phone. sometimes i find it hard to believe that they just have bad luck with repeatedly crappy phones and can't help but think they most likely caused the problem themselves because of rooting or what have you. plus i always hear of how crappy the refurbished phones are, and i also tend to think that the person that owned it previously probably rooted it and hacked the hell out of it until the problems became too great that the person said 'to hell with it', flashed some sbf, made up some lie about the phone, and probably got a D2 out of it, and just screwed Verizon, Motorola, the person who gets the 'refurb' and anyone else that is nonrooted and actually has a real problem with their phone.

Now i myself am rooted, but i do a ton of research before i do anything to my phone just to make sure i know what i'm doing. I mean when i first rooted 2.1, people gave me various update.zips to install, and i noticed that their sizes were all different, so i'd ask why, etc before installing anything. I probably annoyed a lot of people with all my questions (still do probably). And yes, its a lot of fun, and so far i haven't had any issues with it at all. I'm sure a lot of us do their research too, and many many people that know A LOT more than i'll ever know, but there are others too that go through these things without understanding what they're doing.

I can understand why phone makers are locking their phones..i can imagine that a lot of the trades and replacements they make are not warranted..it still sucks though

Just giving my opinion..don't yell at me! lol..

If you hack your phone to the point where you SBF there is no damage to phone any more. Once you apply the SBF file to it is restored to stock. Nothing is left over. All software, including radio, bootloader and os files are replaced, all memory is cleared.

The warranty issue is bogus cause I can say my D2's screen is funky some times when it is not. One can say anything to get a replacement device if the phone was rooted or not.

 

[czerdrill]

The X has been out for months with no true root, and quite frankly, I think if a bootloader hack doesn't happen by the end of the month it probably won't happen.

And how did you arrive at this arbitrary cutoff date? The problem is, we don't KNOW if/when it will be hacked. It could be hacked 2 years from yesterday. Or it could be hacked tomorrow. Or never at all. That's the thing about hacking, it's an unknown.

It could also be never. Which is the likely scenario.

 

[khaf]

If it weren't for the "Oh noes, I messed up my device screwing with custom ROMs and now it doesn't work. How can I lie to my carrier to get them to replace my device for free?" mentality; we wouldn't be facing problems like this.

I honestly think these things are being locked down because of rampant warranty fraud.

I kinda agree with this. as i've read through threads, i've seen a lot of people saying they're on their 3rd or 4th replacement phone. sometimes i find it hard to believe that they just have bad luck with repeatedly crappy phones and can't help but think they most likely caused the problem themselves because of rooting or what have you. plus i always hear of how crappy the refurbished phones are, and i also tend to think that the person that owned it previously probably rooted it and hacked the hell out of it until the problems became too great that the person said 'to hell with it', flashed some sbf, made up some lie about the phone, and probably got a D2 out of it, and just screwed Verizon, Motorola, the person who gets the 'refurb' and anyone else that is nonrooted and actually has a real problem with their phone.

Now i myself am rooted, but i do a ton of research before i do anything to my phone just to make sure i know what i'm doing. I mean when i first rooted 2.1, people gave me various update.zips to install, and i noticed that their sizes were all different, so i'd ask why, etc before installing anything. I probably annoyed a lot of people with all my questions (still do probably). And yes, its a lot of fun, and so far i haven't had any issues with it at all. I'm sure a lot of us do their research too, and many many people that know A LOT more than i'll ever know, but there are others too that go through these things without understanding what they're doing.

I can understand why phone makers are locking their phones..i can imagine that a lot of the trades and replacements they make are not warranted..it still sucks though

Just giving my opinion..don't yell at me! lol..

I had my first warranty replacement D1 after the screen died. After that i got 4 warranty replacement after and none of them were rooted. I didnt want to mod any of the phones until I was sure they were working correctly, but that did not happen. Verizon sent me a droid 2 wich I never pressed for in the first place. To be honest it just looks like alot of D1 users had this problem Ive been on forums for all of the Droid devices and havent see claims of bad referbished phones anywhere nee as much as Ive seen for the D1. Maybe most the claims were legit, hmm who knows well at least mine were.

 

[khaf]

I was just thinking why would people come onto forums to lie about the phones they have? Its not like they have anything to gain from it.

 

[Dave12308]

Thats why us Moto users need the bootloader cracked which is different than root

Quoted for truth. I think the big problem is that folks get terms mixed up; and think that the term "root" refers to the total package; custom kernel and all.

People, "root" in the Linux world is somewhat akin to the "Administrator" account on a Windows PC. If a phone has been rooted, all that means is that "su" has been placed in the filesystem and has it's permissions set to allow the user to run it. The "su" command basically logs you into the "root" account present in every Linux OS. The only thing "rooting" has to do with custom kernels is that it gives one the necessary permissions they need to flash a custom recovery image, which is then used to install the custom kernel as well as the unsigned OS code. If the stock recovery system didn't require a signed zip file to perform an update, you wouldn't need root to install a custom kernel/ROM at all.

As for the locked bootloader; well, the reason this needs to be defeated is that the way things stand right now; you can do everything in the world to install a custom recovery, and it works just fine. You can install custom ROMs and everything. BUT, the locked bootloader will NOT allow a non-stock kernel to boot. At this point, the failure of the kernel to boot has nothing to do with root access or lack thereof. It's the bootloader that is putting a stop to things. If this were defeated, the bootloader could be forced to skip the integrity check, and would then be able to boot any compatible kernel. And THIS is what everyone is waiting for.

 

[Dave12308]

The X has been out for months with no true root, and quite frankly, I think if a bootloader hack doesn't happen by the end of the month it probably won't happen.

And how did you arrive at this arbitrary cutoff date? The problem is, we don't KNOW if/when it will be hacked. It could be hacked 2 years from yesterday. Or it could be hacked tomorrow. Or never at all. That's the thing about hacking, it's an unknown.

It could also be never. Which is the likely scenario.

Look at the bolded text where I quoted myself. I clearly mentioned that scenario, which unfortunately; I believe in the back of my mind to be the case as well. I think that with the form of encryption they are using, trying to hack the bootloader would be akin to hacking the bootloader on a BlackBerry. Aka, not gonna happen. I just like to keep my hopes up for the good of the Droid X owning community.

 

[Dave12308]

I had my first warranty replacement D1 after the screen died. After that i got 4 warranty replacement after and none of them were rooted. I didnt want to mod any of the phones until I was sure they were working correctly, but that did not happen. Verizon sent me a droid 2 wich I never pressed for in the first place. To be honest it just looks like alot of D1 users had this problem Ive been on forums for all of the Droid devices and havent see claims of bad referbished phones anywhere nee as much as Ive seen for the D1. Maybe most the claims were legit, hmm who knows well at least mine were.

I agree, for the MOST part; alot of folks just have bad luck with devices. Part of it lies in the lack of quality control with VZW's "Certified Like New Replacement" devices. Unfortunately though, there tends to me a vocal minority who mess up their phone by their own doing; and then come into the forums and make post after post about their intentions to defraud VZW and get a new device. They come into the forums and basically ask for advice as to how to go about committing fraud. And the carriers notice these things.

Personally I think they should just use the eFuse technology to prevent fraud; it should trip if certain things are modified; not to prevent people from modding their device, rather just to have a way to know if certain things were messed around with. If the device is sent in and the eFuse is tripped, it should simply mean a denied warranty. Not a device that refuses to boot. In other words, it should work more like a water damage indicator in that it should be just that, an INDICATOR.

 

[Dave12308]

By the way, here is a thread that is a good example of exactly what I am talking about:

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/rescue-squad-help/68370-pretty-sure-i-bricked-my-droid.html

guy bricks his Droid trying to flash an SBF, and then calls VZW for a replacement. I dunno, maybe i'm the crazy one; but if I did that i'd admit to myself that it was my fault, and i'd eat the cost..... Or at least call Asurion, tell them that I messed my phone up; and at least pay the deductible. I mean, that's what I pay for insurance for; but i'm certainly not going to make Verizon eat the cost of my mistake.

 

[infinity8x3]

Thats why us Moto users need the bootloader cracked which is different than root

Quoted for truth. I think the big problem is that folks get terms mixed up; and think that the term "root" refers to the total package; custom kernel and all.

People, "root" in the Linux world is somewhat akin to the "Administrator" account on a Windows PC. If a phone has been rooted, all that means is that "su" has been placed in the filesystem and has it's permissions set to allow the user to run it. The "su" command basically logs you into the "root" account present in every Linux OS. The only thing "rooting" has to do with custom kernels is that it gives one the necessary permissions they need to flash a custom recovery image, which is then used to install the custom kernel as well as the unsigned OS code. If the stock recovery system didn't require a signed zip file to perform an update, you wouldn't need root to install a custom kernel/ROM at all.

As for the locked bootloader; well, the reason this needs to be defeated is that the way things stand right now; you can do everything in the world to install a custom recovery, and it works just fine. You can install custom ROMs and everything. BUT, the locked bootloader will NOT allow a non-stock kernel to boot. At this point, the failure of the kernel to boot has nothing to do with root access or lack thereof. It's the bootloader that is putting a stop to things. If this were defeated, the bootloader could be forced to skip the integrity check, and would then be able to boot any compatible kernel. And THIS is what everyone is waiting for.

The only problem is this isn't exactly the linux world it's the android world. But in the linux world if you have root or su permissions can you not change the kernel? In linux if you have root permissions you have unlimited access to the whole system. That's not the case with the X and D2. So that's where confusion sets in. And why some believe they are not truly rooted. They are still locked out.

 

[givmedew]

"After I mod it I can't return it"

Well unfortunately after people mod them and mess them up they still manage to return and exchange them more often than not. Very few if any take responsibility for the damage they have caused and expect the carrier or manufacturer to foot the bill.

Also at the store level associates are not able to tell if the reason a phone is not working properly is caused by modifications. Not until the phone reaches the manufacturer is there any chance at recognizing this. At that point it is to late to do anything about it and either the manufacturer eats it or charges it back to the carrier.

Because of THIS FORUM and OTHERS that directly state how to get around warranty policies and even encourage it. What I mean by encourage is worse than it actually sounds. I have seen multiple times where a otherwise responsible person has posted about an issue with a phone that they caused and the multiple people say take it back and try to get a new one.

Why would Motorola want to be nice anymore? They would have to see a significant drop in sales that outweighed the cost difference in improperly warranted devices. Now that HTC has followed suite all it would take is Samsung to pull the trigger and this would be an industry standard.

In short:

We have ourselves to thank or curse for this situation. We are the ones who pushed for this to happen.

I understand that there are other things at force like bloatware that generates revenue however I personally do not believe this is the root cause for locking these devices down. I believe it is the abuse that has happened.

 

[czerdrill]

^^ +1.

Companies have every right to do what they're doing. They're not the ones breaking the rules...we are

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[Dusty]

Yeah!

Because of you savages, Verizon and Motorola had to call off two meetings last week because the entire Board of Directors couldn't afford to put gas in their car to make it!

Whatever. They could care less about returns and exchanges due to "hacking". It's a small percentage of over all phone movement in the end. They get these phones for a super low price because they buy them in 10k to 100k piece lots at a time.

What they really don't want is for people to get truly malicious and discover ways to game their network or marketplace. A threat like that is completely possible if you have a technically knowledgeable pool of individuals digging around in the deep recesses of a device. If something like that happened and shareholders caught wind of it, THAT would truly undermine their business model.

As much as we'd like to think we have an impact we really don't. Forums like this are nothing more than the front corner of the bus where guys (and ladies) gather to talk about things that NOBODY else really cares about. Sure, we give a device "geek"-cred, but our numbers are comparatively low when compared to the "center-mass" of the market. The few thousand who nefariously exchange their devices for new ones aren't the driving force behind the lockdown, the possibility of network fraud is. Remember, their model is based on YOU paying for their services for YEARS. If they can't make that happen everything they know is no longer true.

I hope I don't offend anyone by calling us geeks... Remember, I'm sitting on the bus gripping my lunchbox right next to you!

 

[czerdrill]

Rooters have no impact on motorola, verizon, htc our any other company. Which is why people complaining about what these companies do is funny.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[khaf]

To punish customers because of a few bad ones isn't good. It took 5 phones for verizon to do something in my case. Oh well I dont have anything to complain about in the end they fixed my problem. Ive had Sprint, T-mobile, ATnT, and now Verizon and I can say verizon beats everyone else by large margin accept for price lol.

 

[Droid_3.0]

You really think that rooters are causing this its not its the people who don't know what the F*** there doing to the phone and end up messing it up then not knowing how to fix it!
ive been thought 5 boot loops 1 Rsd pull and my droids still fine..... so lets just stop pointing fingers and get on with out lives god its a phone ppl