Possible Ways to Crack the Bootloader

[armedmonkey]

Who said my plan was moto specific. Believe me UNC, I have done my research.

{{ WugFresh }}

Good, I also think threatening them will do you no good. No lawsuit scares them, their lawyers would literally just spend your lawyers into the ground.

I honestly think your best course of action is one that was already suggested. If you could get a petition of one million that says they will pay a premium to VZW for an unlocked device with a restricted return policy, it could get their attention. That one million signatures would probably equate to one hundred thousand sales... If they could add that on top of say the D3s sales, I think it may be something they'd at least look into.

1) That's not a petition. A petition is asking for something. You're making a "promise" (which most people wouldn't keep)
2) People are still already on contracts. And there is no such thing as a potential sale, or a vested sale. So that argument is almost moot
3) No reasonable premium would be worthwhile to VZW in terms of eventual costs of support. Think how expensive an unlocked DX is... this would be even more expensive.
4) I'm reading your mind here - you're gonna say "offer it without support". No. That won't happen. VZW will be afraid that all those people will whine about "no support" after and give them a bad wrap.

 

[UNC]

Who said my plan was moto specific. Believe me UNC, I have done my research.

{{ WugFresh }}

Good, I also think threatening them will do you no good. No lawsuit scares them, their lawyers would literally just spend your lawyers into the ground.

I honestly think your best course of action is one that was already suggested. If you could get a petition of one million that says they will pay a premium to VZW for an unlocked device with a restricted return policy, it could get their attention. That one million signatures would probably equate to one hundred thousand sales... If they could add that on top of say the D3s sales, I think it may be something they'd at least look into.

1) That's not a petition. A petition is asking for something. You're making a "promise" (which most people wouldn't keep)
2) People are still already on contracts. And there is no such thing as a potential sale, or a vested sale. So that argument is almost moot
3) No reasonable premium would be worthwhile to VZW in terms of eventual costs of support. Think how expensive an unlocked DX is... this would be even more expensive.
4) I'm reading your mind here - you're gonna say "offer it without support". No. That won't happen. VZW will be afraid that all those people will whine about "no support" after and give them a bad wrap.

1.a formally drawn request, often bearing the names of a number of those making the request, that is addressed to a person or group of persons in authority or power, soliciting some favor, right, mercy, or other benefit

2. What are you talking about? A lot of people are month to month (like me) contracts are for suckers. Buy full retail.

3. Verizon would incur no extra cost, if anything they make more profit by not subsidizing the phone, also I clearly stated that they would have a modified warranty program, so that also eliminates their need to endlessly replace idiots phones.

4. Your powers have faded Nostradamus. It would have the same support as the locked version... You would just have the option of install their OS pushes or not be able to do warranty exchanges. That would give you the ultimate choice, and would protect them from replacing phones that the users weren't smart enough to take care of.

 

[kptphalkon]

You....called....him.....Nostradamus.


Really? Come on.

 

[armedmonkey]

1.a formally drawn request, often bearing the names of a number of those making the request, that is addressed to a person or group of persons in authority or power, soliciting some favor, right, mercy, or other benefit

2. What are you talking about? A lot of people are month to month (like me) contracts are for suckers. Buy full retail.

3. Verizon would incur no extra cost, if anything they make more profit by not subsidizing the phone, also I clearly stated that they would have a modified warranty program, so that also eliminates their need to endlessly replace idiots phones.

4. Your powers have faded Nostradamus. It would have the same support as the locked version... You would just have the option of install their OS pushes or not be able to do warranty exchanges. That would give you the ultimate choice, and would protect them from replacing phones that the users weren't smart enough to take care of.

Goodness, why do ignorance and persistence always go hand in hand in equal measure?

1. A *REQUEST*. You're offering a barter, not making a request. "If you <> then we will <>" is a contract, not a petition.
2. Who's the sucker? You spent more than 2x as much as me on the same bloated, locked down phone. For what? I don't see you exercising your power to switch from VZW. You're just whining online and writing "petitions" about stuff you should have expected from the get-go when you were exercising your "consumer prowess" in not getting a contracted phone.
3) Read my original number 3 a few more times. I already addressed what you said. The costs incurred would be from people calling in, not aware of what their warranty terms are, etc, and any support they would have to provide. They can't just say "here's a phone, if ANYTHING happens to it, it's not our problem". so they'd have to troubleshoot all the idiots who brick their phones and determine if it's their problem or not.
4) I think I already answered that.

 

[UNC]

1.a formally drawn request, often bearing the names of a number of those making the request, that is addressed to a person or group of persons in authority or power, soliciting some favor, right, mercy, or other benefit

2. What are you talking about? A lot of people are month to month (like me) contracts are for suckers. Buy full retail.

3. Verizon would incur no extra cost, if anything they make more profit by not subsidizing the phone, also I clearly stated that they would have a modified warranty program, so that also eliminates their need to endlessly replace idiots phones.

4. Your powers have faded Nostradamus. It would have the same support as the locked version... You would just have the option of install their OS pushes or not be able to do warranty exchanges. That would give you the ultimate choice, and would protect them from replacing phones that the users weren't smart enough to take care of.

Goodness, why do ignorance and persistence always go hand in hand in equal measure?

1. A *REQUEST*. You're offering a barter, not making a request. "If you <> then we will <>" is a contract, not a petition.
2. Who's the sucker? You spent more than 2x as much as me on the same bloated, locked down phone. For what? I don't see you exercising your power to switch from VZW. You're just whining online and writing "petitions" about stuff you should have expected from the get-go when you were exercising your "consumer prowess" in not getting a contracted phone.
3) Read my original number 3 a few more times. I already addressed what you said. The costs incurred would be from people calling in, not aware of what their warranty terms are, etc, and any support they would have to provide. They can't just say "here's a phone, if ANYTHING happens to it, it's not our problem". so they'd have to troubleshoot all the idiots who brick their phones and determine if it's their problem or not.
4) I think I already answered that.

1) it is a request... Do you want me to link a definition of barter too??
2) my phone is not locked down, I can do whatever I want to it, and am protected by the law. With a carrier subsidized phone you are stuck with the carrier and their draconian bylaws. Guess what, if I don't like Verizon I can go flash my phone on straight talk or cricket without paying an ETF. So basically I can save $50 a month by going to a cheaper provider... Without an ETF. Sucker.
3) they would not incur any costs. They would just sell the phone as-is with a limited warranty. If you don't want it, then you dont buy it.
4) no you didnt, you acted like you could read my mind although you were way off....

Barter - to trade by exchange of commodities rather than by the use of money

 

[armedmonkey]

1) it is a request... Do you want me to link a definition of barter too??
2) my phone is not locked down, I can do whatever I want to it, and am protected by the law. With a carrier subsidized phone you are stuck with the carrier and their draconian bylaws. Guess what, if I don't like Verizon I can go flash my phone on straight talk or cricket without paying an ETF. So basically I can save $50 a month by going to a cheaper provider... Without an ETF. Sucker.
3) they would not incur any costs. They would just sell the phone as-is with a limited warranty. If you don't want it, then you dont buy it.
4) no you didnt, you acted like you could read my mind although you were way off....

Barter - to trade by exchange of commodities rather than by the use of money

1. strictly speaking: exchange goods without involving money. What you're doing is essentially having people sign a document which proposes a bargain. We will pay for X service/good if you do Y and provide Z
3. Seriously READ *all* of what I say before replying. I explained why they cannot do that.
4) Wow, please try to be mature. My comment was meant to be interpreted as "In the case that you decide to provide the following argument, here is what I have to say". If you weren't going to argue that, then good for you.
And finally to address your number 2:
Then flash CM7 onto your phone.

 

[andylulzyou]

And bragging about how you can flash your phone to Cricket and save a **** ton of money doesn't make you look cool, it makes you look like an idiot for not doing it.

 

[UNC]

You said some stuff about how expensive an unlocked DX would be to support... I read it. I don't see why it would cost them MORE to support unlocked devices. They could easily track the IDs of the phones that were sold that way and easily throttle the data abusers. Then they could just have "pull" otas instead of "push"... if you didn't download the OTA within 15 days, then Verizon would no longer give any support or warranty exchanges.

By the way, I am running CM7 on my unlocked device.

I was just floating the idea for Wug anyway. I don't think suing them will do any good, and I don't think ignoring them will either. The only way to get their attention is to show them a new way to make money.

Its funny that you chime in on this and attack me for offering an alternative to what was being said...

 

[UNC]

And bragging about how you can flash your phone to Cricket and save a **** ton of money doesn't make you look cool, it makes you look like an idiot for not doing it.

You must not travel. I pay by the month.... let's say I'm on a business trip in DC, I can switch to Cricket for that month since I know coverage is strong there, and save money.... now, the next month I go to South Dakota with its shoddy Cricket coverage.... oh nevermind....

Some states have great coverage for the cheaper companies, some don't.

I have been doing training in about 7 different states now (with 10 more to go!), and I have saved atleast $200 dollars just for those months that I was using Cricket. That's a good saving, and if I save that much next year the savings will outpace the premium I paid for the unsubsidized phone. Which means I will have actually paid LESS than anyone who bought the phone subsidized, without the ETF hanging over me....

 

[armedmonkey]

I just want to add that my contract severance fee would probably be $350. I got my DX for $200. without a contract it was over $700. Looks like I'd win there right?

UNC, what device are you using? I was under the impression that we are in the DX forum. I don't see how you can be running CM7 unless there's some news I have not gotten over the last few days.

And UNC, for the last time:
Every time you call in and say "mai phoen no work. owait, i had the battery betwen my butcheeks", that costs Verizon money. They can't just say "sorry, it looks like your line belongs to an unlocked phone, don't call us again, bai!" Even if they troubleshoot you and then determine that it's your own stupid fault and not covered under their terms... that's another ticket that they had to pay someone to deal with. They want less support tickets, not more. If you can't understand that then there's no hope for you. Please stop acting like it's a completely arbitrary decision for them to lock the bootloader just because their reasoning is beyond the grasp of your understanding.

 

[UNC]

I just want to add that my contract severance fee would probably be $350. I got my DX for $200. without a contract it was over $700. Looks like I'd win there right?

UNC, what device are you using? I was under the impression that we are in the DX forum. I don't see how you can be running CM7 unless there's some news I have not gotten over the last few days.

And UNC, for the last time:
Every time you call in and say "mai phoen no work. owait, i had the battery betwen my butcheeks", that costs Verizon money. They can't just say "sorry, it looks like your line belongs to an unlocked phone, don't call us again, bai!" Even if they troubleshoot you and then determine that it's your own stupid fault and not covered under their terms... that's another ticket that they had to pay someone to deal with. They want less support tickets, not more. If you can't understand that then there's no hope for you. Please stop acting like it's a completely arbitrary decision for them to lock the bootloader just because their reasoning is beyond the grasp of your understanding.

Actually, they CAN say "don't call us again". That would be part of the deal. I don't get where you find the information that says they can't... they are already tracking who takes the updates, so it would be NOTHING extra to just blacklist the people who don't take the updates...

I have a few phones, all off-contract. But my D1, DINC, and my (now returned) Thunderbolt all *could* run CM7...

... and about your costs. I have already demonstrated that over 2 years I will save ~$400 by switching my cell provider in certain situations.. $700 - $400 = $300. Your ETF is more than I will have actually paid for the device!!

 

[armedmonkey]

I am getting that feeling like you either didn't read the whole post I made or you are just trying to twist it to make your point.

I said they can't turn you away without troubleshooting. If you have an unlocked device, they are still responsible for providing you service. They have to establish that the problem is on your end and not in their system.

I don't have time to explain stuff to people who don't want to understand. I'd really like to see your math though. And the reason you can install CM7 on those phones isn't because they are unlocked. It's because they don't have locked bootloaders. So let me amend my point: "Go get an unlocked DX and install CM7 on it", since you claimed you could do anything on your unlocked phones.

Out of curiosity though, how much did you buy your unlocked incredible and thunderbolt for without a contract?

by the way... i'm not trying to make this a personal assault. I'm sure there are many things about which you are knowledgeable and correct, but in this, it seems like there's a lot you don't understand about how the business is run.

 

[UNC]

I am getting that feeling like you either didn't read the whole post I made or you are just trying to twist it to make your point.

I said they can't turn you away without troubleshooting. If you have an unlocked device, they are still responsible for providing you service. They have to establish that the problem is on your end and not in their system.

I don't have time to explain stuff to people who don't want to understand. I'd really like to see your math though. And the reason you can install CM7 on those phones isn't because they are unlocked. It's because they don't have locked bootloaders. So let me amend my point: "Go get an unlocked DX and install CM7 on it", since you claimed you could do anything on your unlocked phones.

Out of curiosity though, how much did you buy your unlocked incredible and thunderbolt for without a contract?

They can turn you away from troubleshooting if its an agreed upon situation. Such as an as-is sale or a sale with stipulations...

When I say I can do anything (legally-speaking) on my unlocked phones I'm not saying I can unlock the bootloader, I'm saying that they can do NOTHING if I did (somehow) unlock the bootloader other than deny me service. Where with a subsidized phone they can cancel your service AND hit you with ETFs.

I paid $700 for the Incredible, $750 (I think) for the now-returned Thunderbolt, $600 for the iPhone 4 and $600 for the Droid.

How much would it costs to own two smartphones on contract??? I guess that $2000+ for service isn't figuring into your equations.

 

[armedmonkey]

There's no need for me to own two phones on the same line. If I need to go abroad (for instance), VZW lets me rent a smart phone for free. (rates may not be as good as getting a local plan for where I'm going, but on the other hand, if i go to multiple places Big Red has me covered, usually).

I'm talking about one phone. Most you'll pay for a phone on contract is 200 + 350 max etf = 550, which is less than any phone you'll want off contract.

Nobody (smart) will agree to what you're saying. Why would I take a chance of having the following: I buy phone for $800+ (which is what they will charge you, guaranteed), VZW screws up my account and I have no service. I call them and they turn me away and I'm left with my e-pene in my hand.

 

[PalmerCurling]

This is the entire issue: we are not unified. Wug is the only one with a plan, as solid or not as it may or may not be. Unless anyone else can come up with something concrete, I am with Wug. The dude knows what he is looking at, and knows what's going on. Im with Wug till his plans sink or sail.

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