Is anyone the tiniest bit jealous of the iPhone 4s?

[czerdrill]

Actually, your last paragraph is exactly what I'm trying to get across. Sales don't indicate quality, but many consumers *think* they are getting a superior device-- often without giving the competition a look. That's marketing and brand recognition at work, and it wouldn't matter if Apple made the worst phone on the market as long as it was good enough not to drive users to actively look for alternatives. All they have to do is put some more gas in the hype machine occasionally to keep the consumer inertia going.

Remember when Norton and McAfee became two of the worst antivirus products available? They were still the most successful, due to their high visibility and the vague reputation leftover from when they still made decent products. They were on top because they did something right a long time ago, and because nobody ever heard of Kaspersky and NOD32. While I don't think Apple has quite reached that point, I think that's the direction they are gradually drifting toward.

As for benchmarks, I've made my OG Droid eclipse the Galaxy S series and match the Droid X. That doesn't make my phone less outdated, it demonstrates that benchmarks are largely BS.

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Well by "think" I didn't mean they think it is and it really isn't. I meant they think it is, because it is. People don't think something is good because of specs (except the people here). For the 20th time, if that was the case iPhone would be a forgotten and distant memory right now, because it cannot match up to the specs of the phones that are coming out now. So that leaves two scenarios: 1) They are just blindly falling for advertising and have no clue how inferior and poor quality their device is (you know, the Apple sheep), or 2) they actually are purchasing a device that is a high quality, well performing reliable device which they enjoy.

I have no doubt that there are apple apologists who will just blindly buy everything Apple puts out and proclaim it as best, but the problem is its the exact same thing with Android users. You don't think there are android users who just buy android because "Steve Jobs is a douchebag!" or "I hate Apple, enjoy your walled garden"? They don't consider the other side at all either. The same scenario exists on both sides, in the exact same way, so that's why I don't get how people are just equating iPhone sales as advertising and sheep mentality when the same thing can be said for Android. It simply doesn't make sense.

Benchmarks don't matter but specs do? Sales don't matter but marketshare does? It just comes across as "it counts if it helps my cause".

In order for what you are saying to make sense, all android users would have to be well versed in specs, research their product before buying it, know exactly how the iPhone performs, and then make an educated decision to buy Android. Do you truly believe that's the case for even 10% of Android purchases? If you do, why wouldn't that be the case for Apple purchases? The problem is when you say these things about Apple users, you're inadvertently saying the exact same thing about Android users. What sets Android users apart as smart consumers? It's a simple question, but the only answer that you could give would be false: That they're somehow smarter then everyone else. There is plenty of advertising for Android, Android is hugely successful, and everyone who's in the market for a smartphone has heard of Android by this point. However, what you're saying is when they buy Apple, its cuz they "think" its a good device, and when they buy Android it "is" a good device. In the same breath you'll downplay benchmark results, but point to literal specs as some sort of trump card. Benchmarks don't reflect real world scenarios, literal specs do? Do you see what I'm saying? Specs don't make automatically make a device better or best.

Remember, Android has the marketshare lead. Not Apple. So more people own Android phones, then they own iPhones. At what point do Android users become sheep? The Android users downplay the benchmarks that show that iPhone outperforms other phones, but then get all excited about kevlar in the RAZR? Isn't that odd?

Both sides do the exact same thing.

 

[flamepanther]

Well by "think" I didn't mean they think it is and it really isn't. I meant they think it is, because it is. People don't think something is good because of specs (except the people here). For the 20th time, if that was the case iPhone would be a forgotten and distant memory right now, because it cannot match up to the specs of the phones that are coming out now. So that leaves two scenarios: 1) They are just blindly falling for advertising and have no clue how inferior and poor quality their device is (you know, the Apple sheep), or 2) they actually are purchasing a device that is a high quality, well performing reliable device which they enjoy.

I have no doubt that there are apple apologists who will just blindly buy everything Apple puts out and proclaim it as best, but the problem is its the exact same thing with Android users. You don't think there are android users who just buy android because "Steve Jobs is a douchebag!" or "I hate Apple, enjoy your walled garden"? They don't consider the other side at all either. The same scenario exists on both sides, in the exact same way, so that's why I don't get how people are just equating iPhone sales as advertising and sheep mentality when the same thing can be said for Android. It simply doesn't make sense.

Benchmarks don't matter but specs do? Sales don't matter but marketshare does? It just comes across as "it counts if it helps my cause".

In order for what you are saying to make sense, all android users would have to be well versed in specs, research their product before buying it, know exactly how the iPhone performs, and then make an educated decision to buy Android. Do you truly believe that's the case for even 10% of Android purchases? If you do, why wouldn't that be the case for Apple purchases? The problem is when you say these things about Apple users, you're inadvertently saying the exact same thing about Android users. What sets Android users apart as smart consumers? It's a simple question, but the only answer that you could give would be false: That they're somehow smarter then everyone else. There is plenty of advertising for Android, Android is hugely successful, and everyone who's in the market for a smartphone has heard of Android by this point. However, what you're saying is when they buy Apple, its cuz they "think" its a good device, and when they buy Android it "is" a good device. In the same breath you'll downplay benchmark results, but point to literal specs as some sort of trump card. Benchmarks don't reflect real world scenarios, literal specs do? Do you see what I'm saying? Specs don't make automatically make a device better or best.

Remember, Android has the marketshare lead. Not Apple. So more people own Android phones, then they own iPhones. At what point do Android users become sheep? The Android users downplay the benchmarks that show that iPhone outperforms other phones, but then get all excited about kevlar in the RAZR? Isn't that odd?

Both sides do the exact same thing.

I think you are confusing me for someone else. I haven't once suggested that raw specs are absolutely reliable indicators--although in practice I have found them less unreliable than benchmarks.

Neither sales nor market share are any indication of quality without an accompanying survey--and then that's still only the perception of quality. I suggested market share only as a counterpoint of the same nature as sales. It would be no more and no less a fallacy to take it as an actual indication of a good product. Finding that the product IS actually good implies no more than happy coincidence.

And yes, consumers can perceive quality in the absence of any. Many fashion items are this way. Yes that's comparable since there are people with no use for a smart phone who buy one for status. Also look at Monster cables. They seem to be of very high quality, the people selling them for insane prices say they are the best, and the affluent Joneses down the street won't use anything else. They must be of quality and value, right? Yet the tests have demonstrated them to be not significantly better for their purpose than a wire coat hanger. Don't think that's a comparable case? Look at the attention Apple products get for being so thin and so seamless. Those qualities seem very nice, but what use do they serve other than that? What do they do for a phone that gold plating and excessive shielding don't do for a coat--er, for an audio/video cable?

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[czerdrill]

I think you are confusing me for someone else. I haven't once suggested that raw specs are absolutely reliable indicators--although in practice I have found them less unreliable than benchmarks.

Neither sales nor market share are any indication of quality without an accompanying survey--and then that's still only the perception of quality. I suggested market share only as a counterpoint of the same nature as sales. It would be no more and no less a fallacy to take it as an actual indication of a good product. Finding that the product IS actually good implies no more than happy coincidence.

And yes, consumers can perceive quality in the absence of any. Many fashion items are this way. Yes that's comparable since there are people with no use for a smart phone who buy one for status. Also look at Monster cables. They seem to be of very high quality, the people selling them for insane prices say they are the best, and the affluent Joneses down the street won't use anything else. They must be of quality and value, right? Yet the tests have demonstrated them to be not significantly better for their purpose than a wire coat hanger. Don't think that's a comparable case? Look at the attention Apple products get for being so thin and so seamless. Those qualities seem very nice, but what use do they serve other than that? What do they do for a phone that gold plating and excessive shielding don't do for a coat--er, for an audio/video cable?

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Yeah I think I am mistaking you for someone else haha, for that I apologize. I'm not however sure what were talking about at this point because it seems we're in agreement.

I agree completely with all the examples you've given, I think I was just thrown off by your marketshare argument where you stated that that shows apple does nothing but good marketing. Seems now that's not what you were saying and I agree.

Better is and always will be subjective. That's my point. There are ppl who say specs are everything, and clearly that's not always true. There are also people who say sales are everything and that too is not always true. Android phones are amazing and the galaxy nexus is going to be my next phone. To try to regain some semblance of on topicness, there is nothing to be jealous of because the nexus is a beast. However, I stand by the fact that I think iphone is a great quality device and ppl are not just buying it to be cool. Its not a logical argument given apples success to say that it is pure marketing (not that u said that but some do). Like I said at some point all the cool and familiarity has to concede to it being a great device. Anything else imo is stubborn denial.

 

[flamepanther]

Yeah I think I am mistaking you for someone else haha, for that I apologize. I'm not however sure what were talking about at this point because it seems we're in agreement.

I agree completely with all the examples you've given, I think I was just thrown off by your marketshare argument where you stated that that shows apple does nothing but good marketing. Seems now that's not what you were saying and I agree.

Better is and always will be subjective. That's my point. There are ppl who say specs are everything, and clearly that's not always true. There are also people who say sales are everything and that too is not always true. Android phones are amazing and the galaxy nexus is going to be my next phone. To try to regain some semblance of on topicness, there is nothing to be jealous of because the nexus is a beast. However, I stand by the fact that I think iphone is a great quality device and ppl are not just buying it to be cool. Its not a logical argument given apples success to say that it is pure marketing (not that u said that but some do). Like I said at some point all the cool and familiarity has to concede to it being a great device. Anything else imo is stubborn denial.

We do mostly seem to be in agreement at this point. I disagree with your last two sentences though. As per the antivirus example and the Monster cable example respectively, popularity and success can be the result of a line of products having been great in the past, or of giving a false impression of exceeding quality. Not to say I think either is the case (though I think they're headed that direction) but the mere fact of popularity precludes neither.

To be clear, I haven't been asserting that the main thrust of your point is wrong. I'm merely trying to point out that you've chosen a rubber sword as your dueling weapon.

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[m1ghtysauc3]

Green olives or black olives?

D2CM7.1

 

[czerdrill]

We do mostly seem to be in agreement at this point. I disagree with your last two sentences though. As per the antivirus example and the Monster cable example respectively, popularity and success can be the result of a line of products having been great in the past, or of giving a false impression of exceeding quality. Not to say I think either is the case (though I think they're headed that direction) but the mere fact of popularity precludes neither.

To be clear, I haven't been asserting that the main thrust of your point is wrong. I'm merely trying to point out that you've chosen a rubber sword as your dueling weapon.

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That's probably where we'll agree to disagree. I don't even know what the original argument was anymore

 

[gthotie5]

Green olives all the way.

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[Xplorer4x4]

Who's citing issues of the past? I have a BIONIC and have experienced every one of the three that I listed. Take a walk over to the BIONIC Tech Support Forum and take a look for yourself!

You do realize there is a difference between Moto making a bad build of Android then Android itself being the problem right? Ig OEMs stuck to plain ol Android, things would likley be more stable but they have to insert there own custom UI in to android and then we run in to problems.

Anyways rwking, if your so impressed with the 4S, go get one, but remember that when apple has to play catch up again?

 

[Cinoib]

This is like a conversation in a court room where two opposing sides are discussing the state of the traffic light at the time of the accident. If you were east bound you saw a red light. If you were north bound you saw a green light. Both are right but yet the accident occurred. It has to do with ones perspective.

Four million Iphone 4s's sold this weekend (Oct., 14 through 16). One can hardly say that the Ip4s wasn't a success.

It will be interesting to see how many Nexus Primes sell in it's opening weekend.

Iphone purists are likely more interested in features like Siri. They want a phone that remains at 9mm thick or less. Do you suppose they might take a gander at the Razr at 7mm thin? And I really believe they don't want to go to a slab screen such as those offered by Android. (Well, maybe they do but they'd not be caught dead at the Starbucks with fellow Iphone purists they know and hang).

It was mentioned that the Iphone 4s is playing catch up. I believe that's right. But again, the Iphone purist is likely more interested in the feel and the nature of the Iphone. So Apple had to throw them a bone to keep them in the loop so the Androids couldn't beat them up about having single core processors and half a gig of ram.

I'm only curious about the Ip4s. I'd kind of like to have one. But to try to watch the NFL on an Ip with a 3 1/2" screen would be difficult for me (oh, that's not a feature on an Ip but just in case it was...). And I'm always dropping my phone. In fact the day I got the Bionic -- what's the first thing I do? I dropped it from waste high. No problem, it's functions fine. If I'd have dropped the Ip4s I don't think I'd have been so lucky.

And come on..., 21 mbps on speedtest.net with my Bionic compared to ...what, 3 maybe 4 on the Ip? Granted the Pen Tile screen on my bionic shows the fuzzy black lines and the green isn't quite so green. I can see it in bright day light though. I've got to say, 640 x 960 netting 330 dpi is really great on the Ip - even better then my Bionic at 540 by 960 netting 256 (can't wait to see the 720 by 1280 on the Nexus prime).

Oh, and one last thing. Android has indeed outsold Apple Ip. However there is no single Android manufacture that has outsold the Ip. So sales across Motorola, LG, Samsung, and HTC are greater then apple Ip.

So, in sum, Androidists and Iphoneists are in far different camps. But if you are an Ip purist, you're likely not swayed by a 4"+ screen or LTE. At least not yet. But if apple fails to inovate, I believe the purists might be switching over. But the Ip purist will always have his Ip with him when he comes to Starbucks. It's just that while no one is looking she'll be surfing the web from a black opps Nexus prime.

 

[elvis_marmaduke]

The ONLY thing I'm jealous of is the gpu :/ i was really hoping the prime would be up there with it

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[droid2drummer]

Whatch out for verizons early upgrade special..I just got offered 150 and upgrade to 4g....I've been on D2 since day one of release..so..if you guys have as well been about the same amount of time...it ends in dec....peace!

You juss been TAPPED! by the drummer
LIQUID 3.0 or Anything but Stock!!!!
<><>-------------------PEACE---------------------<><>

 

[emagic103]

I've been with Android since the OG Droid. I've played with Iphones before and while I'm not a fan of the icon filled home screens- they do many things right. One thing that sticks out in particular is the OS itself and how well it renders. Android needs to get serious about hardware acceleration for the OS. I'd love to have an Android device with all the widgets such that ran at a silky smooth frame rate all the time.

 

[czerdrill]

I've been with Android since the OG Droid. I've played with Iphones before and while I'm not a fan of the icon filled home screens- they do many things right. One thing that sticks out in particular is the OS itself and how well it renders. Android needs to get serious about hardware acceleration for the OS. I'd love to have an Android device with all the widgets such that ran at a silky smooth frame rate all the time.

Yeah CNET and Engadget both say ics still lags...one thing that Android can't seem to solve

 

[czerdrill]

They could, but for whatever reason unknown to me don't. Considering that scripts like V6 Supercharger, etc are able to enable phones to run so smoothy and aren't even an integral part of the operating system it seems that this is an issue that could be fixed. Granted, there's always the possibility that this changes with the Nexus and other phones that aren't loaded down by the carriers with unnecessary processes; time will tell.

This is very true. The supercharger script eliminated almost all the lag i had on my d1, with just very minimal lag every once in a while. Let's hope Google gets some more tweaks in there before release.

 

[flamepanther]

This is very true. The supercharger script eliminated almost all the lag i had on my d1, with just very minimal lag every once in a while. Let's hope Google gets some more tweaks in there before release.

That script has improved my Droid's performance dramatically in most circumstances (it seems to adversely affect Opera) but I can still cause it to lag sometimes. This is going to be an issue on ANY mobile device with more than the most minimal degree of multitasking. This is especially inevitable when you look at how many Android apps want to run a background service. Having barely minimal multitasking, it is not surprising if iOS lags less frequently. Whether that's a good trade is open to question.

I suspect that Google mostly leaves memory optimization tweaking up to manufacturers and carriers--which these then proceed to not do. You can only get so far with generic universal settings.

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