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[elvis_marmaduke]

Flash may be dumb and slow and whatever people like to call it that can't have it without emulating or some trick... BUT it's EVERYWHERE! Why? Because is one of if not the easiest platform to code for and it can do allot. Saying something sucks doesn't cover up for the fact that it's EVERYWHERE and is more of a hassle to go without if you plan on using the internet the same way you would on your desktop.

And the fact that it depends on hardware means that it will be getting much smoother over the coming year. Say what you want about it, but as of now, you can't have a TRUE internet experience without it...

You have just been post pwned

 

[JeffDenver]

Yeah, thats not just a marketing slogan. The real internet uses Flash. If you dont have flash, you are using a truncated version of the real internet.

 

[czerdrill]

Lol,what does that even mean..."the real internet"? I guess I don't understand what part of the internet becomes crippled if you don't have Flash?

 

[icculusX]

czerdrill - "the real internet" i would think means all of it without lacking.. without flash you are lacking today. You can't enjoy hulu, youtube, my awesome website haha, or his or hers... so many sites utilize the tools of adobe flash these days. To not have it you may as well be hainging out with the grandmas that have 10 year old PC's and don't know how to install flash.

I agree on the Flash thing. I mean, I have it on my Droid1 and never use it, however I have the option to use it. I think people are down on flash for no good reasons. I coded my entire art photography website in flash (with html, css, java, ect) and I hate how because the iPhone and iPad are so popular I get constant messages from people saying "I went to your site and it's just a blank page" - Like elvis_marmaduke said, flash may not be the best thing ever, but it IS everywhere on the internet now-a-days. So I say suck it up iMac and just add it. It's not going away anytime soon.

As for GPS, I know that the iPhone has Google Maps, but not the navigation part of it. I hear you have to buy a app like TomTom or somehting to get navigation. I dono the costs nor which app is good or bad, but thats a bummer. Google Nav is my best friend.

The UI on the iPhone I always thought was very well laid out ad obviously simply designed. I am a huge fan on the MIUI rom for this reason (but don't like it because of constant flaws, what can ya do, its a dev in progress). As I might had said before, I am an artist and designer and so obviously clean appealing design is important to me. Okay... I need to stop talking and just wait it out haha...

 

[JeffDenver]

Lol,what does that even mean..."the real internet"?

Exactly what I said it means. It is not a truncated approximation of the internet. It is what you would see on your desktop.

I guess I don't understand what part of the internet becomes crippled if you don't have Flash?

Using that logic, what if you could not view image files either? You could still technically use the internet, right?

Why are fewer options a good thing?

 

[czerdrill]

Exactly what I said it means. It is not a truncated approximation of the internet. It is what you would see on your desktop.




Using that logic, what if you could not view image files either? You could still technically use the internet, right?

Why are fewer options a good thing?

well no my logic would be why would i need something that makes my internet experience worse on my mobile phone? like i said, flash is buggy as hell. so essentially your logic is "i dont care if it sucks, at least i have it"? it's one thing to have options, its another to have options that work.

i dont know how many people are visiting flash based websites on their iPhones/android phones, but I imagine it can't be a lot. For sites like youtube, both ios and android support it, for games, you download apps.

I know I'm not the norm, but are people really visiting flash based websites through their browser on their mobile phones? Seems like gluttony for punishment....

@icculus, yeah i get what they meant now, thanks, but still for hulu, youtube you can have both on ios and android without the need for flash. for websites yes, you won't be able to, but i guess i just dont see why anyone would want to visit a flash based website on their mobile phones....

 

[JeffDenver]

well no my logic would be why would i need something that makes my internet experience worse on my mobile phone?

Um...how exactly is it making anything worse?

1) You could choose not to install flash. problem solved.

2) You could choose to make it on-demand so you only see flash when you want to. Problem solved.

Are you allergic to choice or something? What exactly is the downside?

like i said, flash is buggy as hell.

So if it is imperfect no one should use it or have access to it? LOL

I have not had the same negative experiences you seem to have had. Maybe you're doing something wrong.

i dont know how many people are visiting flash based websites on their iPhones/android phones, but I imagine it can't be a lot.

Not by their choice. A google search reveals a lot of iPhone people who want flash.

I know I'm not the norm, but are people really visiting flash based websites through their browser on their mobile phones? Seems like gluttony for punishment....

Why should they not have the option to do it if they want?

 

[czerdrill]

Um...how exactly is it making anything worse?

1) You could choose not to install flash. problem solved.

2) You could choose to make it on-demand so you only see flash when you want to. Problem solved.

Are you allergic to choice or something? What exactly is the downside?

I think (or at least I thought) it was obvious, I'm talking about people who do in fact have it installed and who use it. Not for people who don't use it...the downside for the people who use it is that its laggy, and it makes their mobile browsing experience worse...

So if it is imperfect no one should use it or have access to it? LOL

I have not had the same negative experiences you seem to have had. Maybe you're doing something wrong.

Maybe, but you were the one in this very thread, linking to one thread about frash and saying things like "oh the irony" right? So I hope you can appreciate that just because it works for you doesn't mean everyone else is "doing something wrong"...

Not by their choice. A google search reveals a lot of iPhone people who want flash.

Same as a google search reveals a lot of android people who think it sucks and worsens their mobile browsing experience...i still don't buy that millions of people are visiting flash based sites on their mobile browsers, but who knows

Why should they not have the option to do it if they want?

Again, I'm not bashing the option, I'm saying the option is not improving anything...it's like laughing at someone for not having a lawn mower and then using scissors to cut your own lawn. it's not like by having flash, your android phone is suddenly a super beast. it's quite clear that flash on android is a buggy mess and it's not just me that's doing something wrong. the adobe CEO himself "acknowledged" the issue on Android phones by deflecting the argument when he was called out on it...my point is great you have the option, and the option makes your experience worse...so...congrats on the option? lol

 

[elvis_marmaduke]

Flash ISN'T buggy as hell, I don't know where you're getting that from lol, maybe if someone doesn't know how to code it is... it IS kinda slow, especially on phones, due to it's speed depending greatly on hardware for it's power.

Flash is used in a lot of graphical interactive websites, LOTS, and what?... 75+% of streaming video websites?

If you don't need flash, and you don't use/want to use your phone to be able to go to just about any website with no restrictions, then good for you, personally, the less restrictions I have, the happier I am.

 

[czerdrill]

Flash ISN'T buggy as hell, I don't know where you're getting that from lol, maybe if someone doesn't know how to code it is...

Flash is used in a lot of graphical interactive websites, LOTS, and what?... 75+% of streaming video websites?

If you don't need flash, and you don't use/want to use your phone to be able to go to just about any website with no restrictions, then good for you, personally, the less restrictions I have, the happier I am.

I'm talking about the implementation of the flash player on android, not flash itself, i apologize if that's what it sounded like. Flash powers a lot of websites, and it's used everywhere yes, my point is on a mobile platform so far it's been buggy, laggy and unreliable. I know there are like 3 people out there (you included probably, whose phones run Flash identical to how it would run on a desktop) but believe me that's not the case for most. It's funny that one little thread about frash being bad on ios is being accepted as truth, but the countless threads talking about how bad flash is on android are being dismissed...

and like i said congrats on having the option...in my opinion (my opinion) having a buggy option that makes my phone worse is not something i want or need just for bragging rights....

 

[JeffDenver]

Flash ISN'T buggy as hell, I don't know where you're getting that from lol,

Yeah, I dont either. I am not calling him a liar or anything, but I know dozens of people with Android phones and flash runs fine on them. I know because I installed it for most of them. Flash works as it should on those phones. I test it on flash websites. The main complaints I have seen are that it is slow. Yeah, 10fps video is slow, but it is not unwatchable.

When Flash first came out I had problems (though it still worked), but I have not had any issues with it in the last 9 months or so. It you look at his links, all except one are a year or more old.

 

[JeffDenver]

the downside for the people who use it is that its laggy, and it makes their mobile browsing experience worse...

If it makes their experience worse, why do they have it installed?

How many people do you actually know that have an Android phone and dont have flash installed? I dont think I can name even one personally.

Maybe, but you were the one in this very thread, linking to one thread about frash and saying things like "oh the irony" right?

Yeah, the irony is that the buggy-ass approximation of flash that iOS uses...er I mean the JAILBROKEN iOS devices use...is a port from Android. The only reason they even have it at all is because of Android.

Not only that, but you are the one saying it makes the mobile experience worse. If it makes it worse, why are these desperate iOS people jumping through hoops just to have it on their devices? Are they masochists or something? Why does Frash exist at all if flash is so horrible?

Same as a google search reveals a lot of android people who think it sucks and worsens their mobile browsing experience...

See, the difference is that the people complaining about flash have a really easy fix...just dont install it. Problem solved. It is so easy that they can do this by simply doing nothing, because Flash isnt even pre-installed. You have to actually download it.

The people who WANT flash who are on iOS are just SoL apparently. Supernanny Steve Jobs has declared a jihad on Flash and they are all coming along for the ride, like it or not.

Again, I'm not bashing the option

So you agree that iOS should have Flash?

I'm saying the option is not improving anything...

...for you. You personally dont like Flash. Thats fine. On Android, you have the option of not using it. And you can change your mind later. On iOS you have no choice.

This isnt directed at you, but it has always amazed me in arguments like this how Apple people respond "well I probably wouldnt like it anyway' when told about what they cant do with their phones. As if not having options is a feature or something.

my point is great you have the option, and the option makes your experience worse..

According to who? I had no idea you knew my experiences better than I do. Are you telepathic or something?

If it really makes people's experiences worse, why do so many people use it and want it? Is it possible you might be wrong about what makes their experiences worse?

 

[czerdrill]

If it makes their experience worse, why do they have it installed?

How many people do you actually know that have an Android phone and dont have flash installed? I dont think I can name even one personally.

Nor can I. But having flash installed equates to people loving it, it being bug-free, lag free and implies that users with flash installed visit flash based websites daily? I don't get the correlation.

Yeah, the irony is that the buggy-ass approximation of flash that iOS uses...er I mean the JAILBROKEN iOS devices use...is a port from Android. The only reason they even have it at all is because of Android.

Not only that, but you are the one saying it makes the mobile experience worse. If it makes it worse, why are these desperate iOS people jumping through hoops just to have it on their devices? Are they masochists or something? Why does Frash exist at all if flash is so horrible?

The iOS people who say "we don't want it anyway" are just as silly as the people who try to say Flash is not buggy and laggy on Android. It's called cognitive dissonance. To the iPhone user "I don't need or want it" when they clearly do, to the android user "There's no problem with it" when there clearly is.

See, the difference is that the people complaining about flash have a really easy fix...just dont install it. Problem solved. It is so easy that they can do this by simply doing nothing, because Flash isnt even pre-installed. You have to actually download it.

The people who WANT flash who are on iOS are just SoL apparently. Supernanny Steve Jobs has declared a jihad on Flash and they are all coming along for the ride, like it or not.

Wrong. The people who want Flash on iOS install frash. Like I said it's funny that you link to one thread about frash that proclaims its bugginess and apply that to mean frash must be horrible, but ignore the countless complaints about android flash...cognitive dissonance.

So you agree that iOS should have Flash?

I agree that people want flash. IMO, I don't need it so whether or not Android or IOS has it is irrelevant to me.

...for you. You personally dont like Flash. Thats fine. On Android, you have the option of not using it. And you can change your mind later. On iOS you have no choice.

Wrong again.

This isnt directed at you, but it has always amazed me in arguments like this how Apple people respond "well I probably wouldnt like it anyway' when told about what they cant do with their phones. As if not having options is a feature or something.

I agree. Saying "We don't need flash anyway" is no less silly then denying that it sucks on Android when there are countless complaints about it...

According to who? I had no idea you knew my experiences better than I do. Are you telepathic or something?

If it really makes people's experiences worse, why do so many people use it and want it? Is it possible you might be wrong about what makes their experiences worse?

Wait, so you can comment on frash and its implementation on iOS with your reference to one thread, but I can't comment on the implementation on Android, even though I've provided several examples of the complaints people have about it? Cognitive dissonance.

 

[JeffDenver]

But having flash installed equates to people loving it, it being bug-free, lag free and implies that users with flash installed visit flash based websites daily?

It equates to:

Its bug-free enough
Its lag free enough
They feel they will probably visit flash sites at some point if they dont already

It doesnt have to be perfect to be useful or desired.

Wrong. The people who want Flash on iOS install frash.

So am I imagining all the iOS users who complain about not having flash? Why dont they just jailbreak and install it?

I mean, if iOS already has it and it works well enough and it is so easy to get, why are they complaining?

Me: So you agree that iOS should have Flash?

I agree that people want flash.

So is it unreasonable for those people to demand that iOS have the option for Flash?

Cognitive dissonance.

Buzzword.

 

[czerdrill]

It equates to:

Its bug-free enough
Its lag free enough
They feel they will probably visit flash sites at some point if they dont already

It doesnt have to be perfect to be useful or desired.

And here I thought you were arguing that it was perfect. So you are acknowledging that it contains bugs, and probably just as many bugs as the iOS implementation...still don't see what was so ironic or laughable about the thread you linked to then...

So am I imagining all the iOS users who complain about not having flash? Why dont they just jailbreak and install it?

I mean, if iOS already has it and it works well enough and it is so easy to get, why are they complaining?

Why do android users complain about it?? LOL...i don't get what your point here is. My initial point, which still stands and was just verified by you, was that having flash on your device is not something amazing to write home about. You've now admitted that it's lag and bug-free "enough", you've seen the threads of people complaining about it on android. I'm sure the iOS users who want flash and know about jailbreaking have done it and are not complaining. It's not like every iOS user knows what jailbreaking is, just like not every android user knows about rooting and ROMing.

So is it unreasonable for those people to demand that iOS have the option for Flash?

No. Did I or you say that? Don't recall that ever being mentioned. I said to me it's irrelevant.

Buzzword.

Like "open source"?