Is it safe to say there will be no more direct ROM releases for D2G?
- Thread starter cgull
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Asphyx
Member
Angdroid is getting married. Prob taking up a lot of his time.
Add to that the seemingly near release of Gingerbread by Moto and I'm betting that you won't see any further releases for D2G from anyone until Moto releases the base GB rom and people get a chance to play with it.
It really doesn't make a lot of sense to spend a lot of time customizing a Froyo base only to have to scrap the work in two weeks if thats when GB comes out.
And I'll admit until I know what kind of battery life GB exhibits I will not be rushing to flash it and give it up just to get GB Blur.
Add to that the seemingly near release of Gingerbread by Moto and I'm betting that you won't see any further releases for D2G from anyone until Moto releases the base GB rom and people get a chance to play with it.
It really doesn't make a lot of sense to spend a lot of time customizing a Froyo base only to have to scrap the work in two weeks if thats when GB comes out.
And I'll admit until I know what kind of battery life GB exhibits I will not be rushing to flash it and give it up just to get GB Blur.
draexo
Member
Angdroid has been making and breaking promises since the end of the year. I would not expect anything from Team Defuse. Ive been following their tweets and looks like they have the hands in too many projects. Only hope seems to be Gingerbread. There is someone beta testing a new D2G rom but there is no data on 3G, so that's not for me. There is the Romer, which attempts to port G2 Roms to the Global but there are issues there as well.
I am at the point where I would be happy with stock Gingerbread...though I'd miss Titanium Backup.
Really wish I had gotten an X instead.
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using DroidForums
I am at the point where I would be happy with stock Gingerbread...though I'd miss Titanium Backup.
Really wish I had gotten an X instead.
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using DroidForums
bikedude880
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What good does it do to sit around and just do nothing? May as well start and apply that knowledge to GB.
TRIKOTRET
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So there is no GB leak coming out like dx and droid 2 for our phones
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Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using DroidForums
draexo
Member
That is what I heard also.
- Thread Starter
- #8
I have the same feeling, except should have gotten the D2.
Asphyx
Member
You can't apply anything to GB until it comes out! and the devs aren't doing nothing they are working on other projects until they can proceed with the D2G project.
This begs the question...
Hope for what exactly? What is it that is missing that everyone is looking for in a new ROM release? What feature is missing? What do the D2 Roms make the phone do that the current Fission doesn't?
Is there something the D2 roms do that Fission does not or is it just that the D2 Roms have a release a month despite the fact they don't really add anything or perform any better than what we currently have but the fact you will be able to flash a rom a month feeds the flashing fix?
Even if the D2G had more developer support I just don't understand what you guys think you would be getting that you don't have now.
Fission has lack of support which I think is the biggest thing. It has maybe 6 themes total and none of them are that good (in my opinion). Also, fission isn't a true rom, its only half a rom. It just uses modified framework files to get rid of some of the blur.
Now to answer the op, yes there will be. Not sure when but the alpha release of grd's rom should be soon. Im currently running it and there's a few small bugs that need to be worked out before a public release.
sent from a D2G
Now to answer the op, yes there will be. Not sure when but the alpha release of grd's rom should be soon. Im currently running it and there's a few small bugs that need to be worked out before a public release.
sent from a D2G
Asphyx
Member
Well 13th at least you Wozzy and Buryboi are using the time in between Fission releases in a productive manner. (I'm sure I'm missing a few names there my apologies)
As for Theme support well you don't need a ROM developer to make themes. The Liberty team itself may come out with a few themes but most of the D2 Themes are written by 3rd parites not related to the Dev team. And as such the same could be done for D2G unfortunatly none of the users seem capable or they would have tackled this issue already.
And in my book themeing is merely a cosmetic change it is not a product of ROM features.
As to your point that Fission is a half rom well all the D2 roms are also half roms that install and work in much the same way.
Liberty is no more a full rom than Fission. It is the same principle where the system is replaced but it uses the same standard Kernel that came with the phone.
Now Liberty may replace more of the system than Fission does but what it actually adds isn't all that significant to the operation of the phone. More people have it so more people develop for it but with all of that it is not making the phone operate any better than Fission.
CyanogenMod and AOSP are very different beasts. They change just about everything about the phone. All the Moto ROMS are pretty much System replacements as that is all that is possible until the bootloader gets unlocked!
The reason I even get involved in these discussions is because I see something with the D2G users (GRD crew excluded) that I don't see with the D2 and DX crowd.
The D2G users seem to be WAITING for someone else to do what they want and are even so rude as to complain that someone else is not giving them hours of their day on a timely basis.
Developers do what they do for the fan appreciation of it. And if they see they are not going to be appreciated there really is no reason to dedicate time to it. Especially since there are too few in number to appreciate even if they made a release a day.
What I am trying to get accross here to the users is if you really are interested in seeing development then you have to get off your A$$ and see to making it happen (as GRD did!) and not just sit and pout and threaten to change phones (Like anyone cares what phone you have!) like a spoiled little kid.
If people had taken that attitude from the get go then there would never have been the concept of custom roms and flashable features in the first place.
We all went and bought a very particular and unusual phone. It does things the other phones will not do.
If we would all like to see it do more then we need to get off our butts, stop waiting for someone else to hand it to us on a silver platter and get working on the code we want!
That means:
1 - If we want themes then start picking apart the Zips from FRM and customizing them to get the look you want. This is essentially how every theme for the D2 is made as well as any other theme for any other system that exists.
If we want more configuration options then just as GRD used file comparison tools you can do the same with individual files and code those features in.
But to come to a forum and complain loudly using the excuse that I'm not a developer is a waste of time and a bit hypocritical if you ask me.
How can you complain about someone not dedicating enough time to an endeavor you yourself is not ready to dedicate time to?
None of the folks in the GRD team thought they were developers when they started on that project and look how far they have come!
If they had taken the same attitude as many of the folks complaining on this site then we wouldn't even have the Liberty/Romer option!
As for the support comment well I don't know I really haven't needed support from Ang in any way as everything works. Most issues reported with Fission are bad flashes, Bad flash practices (Usually due to flashing something else and then trying to go back without an SBF) and mere newbie misunderstanding about procedure.
It has always been up to the users of a ROM to support it in the forums so that the Devs could be free to work on the project without wasting a few hours answering newbie questions.
Bottomline here is if we want things like Themes and Support we should be prepared to do that ourselves. And I just don't see that dedication from the D2G users.
And if they are not dedicated to the device's growth why should we demand others to be?
Liberty is a project that was started by D2 Users.
There are more of them so the progress happens faster.
If we all started doing what we felt needed to be done then there would be no difference in the support for D2 and D2G.
But we seem not ready to stand to post and GetRDone!
(That company excepted of course!)
As for Theme support well you don't need a ROM developer to make themes. The Liberty team itself may come out with a few themes but most of the D2 Themes are written by 3rd parites not related to the Dev team. And as such the same could be done for D2G unfortunatly none of the users seem capable or they would have tackled this issue already.
And in my book themeing is merely a cosmetic change it is not a product of ROM features.
As to your point that Fission is a half rom well all the D2 roms are also half roms that install and work in much the same way.
Liberty is no more a full rom than Fission. It is the same principle where the system is replaced but it uses the same standard Kernel that came with the phone.
Now Liberty may replace more of the system than Fission does but what it actually adds isn't all that significant to the operation of the phone. More people have it so more people develop for it but with all of that it is not making the phone operate any better than Fission.
CyanogenMod and AOSP are very different beasts. They change just about everything about the phone. All the Moto ROMS are pretty much System replacements as that is all that is possible until the bootloader gets unlocked!
The reason I even get involved in these discussions is because I see something with the D2G users (GRD crew excluded) that I don't see with the D2 and DX crowd.
The D2G users seem to be WAITING for someone else to do what they want and are even so rude as to complain that someone else is not giving them hours of their day on a timely basis.
Developers do what they do for the fan appreciation of it. And if they see they are not going to be appreciated there really is no reason to dedicate time to it. Especially since there are too few in number to appreciate even if they made a release a day.
What I am trying to get accross here to the users is if you really are interested in seeing development then you have to get off your A$$ and see to making it happen (as GRD did!) and not just sit and pout and threaten to change phones (Like anyone cares what phone you have!) like a spoiled little kid.
If people had taken that attitude from the get go then there would never have been the concept of custom roms and flashable features in the first place.
We all went and bought a very particular and unusual phone. It does things the other phones will not do.
If we would all like to see it do more then we need to get off our butts, stop waiting for someone else to hand it to us on a silver platter and get working on the code we want!
That means:
1 - If we want themes then start picking apart the Zips from FRM and customizing them to get the look you want. This is essentially how every theme for the D2 is made as well as any other theme for any other system that exists.
If we want more configuration options then just as GRD used file comparison tools you can do the same with individual files and code those features in.
But to come to a forum and complain loudly using the excuse that I'm not a developer is a waste of time and a bit hypocritical if you ask me.
How can you complain about someone not dedicating enough time to an endeavor you yourself is not ready to dedicate time to?
None of the folks in the GRD team thought they were developers when they started on that project and look how far they have come!
If they had taken the same attitude as many of the folks complaining on this site then we wouldn't even have the Liberty/Romer option!
As for the support comment well I don't know I really haven't needed support from Ang in any way as everything works. Most issues reported with Fission are bad flashes, Bad flash practices (Usually due to flashing something else and then trying to go back without an SBF) and mere newbie misunderstanding about procedure.
It has always been up to the users of a ROM to support it in the forums so that the Devs could be free to work on the project without wasting a few hours answering newbie questions.
Bottomline here is if we want things like Themes and Support we should be prepared to do that ourselves. And I just don't see that dedication from the D2G users.
And if they are not dedicated to the device's growth why should we demand others to be?
Liberty is a project that was started by D2 Users.
There are more of them so the progress happens faster.
If we all started doing what we felt needed to be done then there would be no difference in the support for D2 and D2G.
But we seem not ready to stand to post and GetRDone!
(That company excepted of course!)
bikedude880
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Well put. Of course there are other people working on this phone as well, we're just the minority... I'd say less than 1% of users actually are actively working on it. On that note, the main thing holding up any source-based system image is (surprise) the main radios. Without those working, don't expect anything to be released past a beta. Exception to that are the images created via proprietary binaries and frameworks (e.g. Fission).
Sent from my White DROID 2 GLOBAL.
Sent from my White DROID 2 GLOBAL.
Asphyx
Member
The radio is very problematical, that is true. But it is limiting only in regards to stuff that use the radio.
I haven't really studied Liberty code but my guess is they aren't going anywhere near the radio in their releases and coding.
It works and if it isn't broke why change it?
Where the limitations regarding radio are concerned is in the lack of comparative ROMs that files and features can be lifted from.
We are pretty much stuck using OTAs and Stock to get our files from which means a much less water to draw from the well.
But what GRD has done is they have proved that most of what Liberty has done is not radio related. That pretty much means whatever Liberty has accomplished for the D2 could be accomplished for the D2G without the loss of Radio and Quad Band features. In fact GRD has already pretty much identified the files that are required to AVOID in any new development project someone could undertake with the only remaining file left is whatever file breaks the sensors in the Liberty/Romer mix.
So starting from a deodexed and deblurred ROM (Fission or even a stock) We pretty much know which files need to be left alone and all the other can be tweaked.
Sure Ang or some other developer could help but the Liberty folks could help just as easily as they know what files they messed with and did not.
And I am willing to bet if we did a comparison of Liberty with a stock D2 ROM we could easily identify all the files the Liberty crew changed and create a system zip that merely included the Liberty customizations but none of the D2 specific files they are relying on and we could come up with a perfectly compatible version of Liberty for the D2G with all of the features but none of the hardware issues Romer has.
And once you got that it should be no problem to keep it up to date with new developments in Liberty as all they need to do is give you a copy of the updated files to replace the old.
Romer was good in reverse engineering and as a proof of concept. But it's time to go in the other direction now.
Instead of adding D2G files to liberty it is time to start adding Liberty files to a standard D2G until we figure out what causes the sensor issues.
And I think if we merely added the customized liberty files that are different than Stock D2 we would find that Most of Liberty development has nothing to do with the actual hardware it's just we never bothered to figure out what they changed and tried to add those to a stock deodexed D2G rom.
I haven't really studied Liberty code but my guess is they aren't going anywhere near the radio in their releases and coding.
It works and if it isn't broke why change it?
Where the limitations regarding radio are concerned is in the lack of comparative ROMs that files and features can be lifted from.
We are pretty much stuck using OTAs and Stock to get our files from which means a much less water to draw from the well.
But what GRD has done is they have proved that most of what Liberty has done is not radio related. That pretty much means whatever Liberty has accomplished for the D2 could be accomplished for the D2G without the loss of Radio and Quad Band features. In fact GRD has already pretty much identified the files that are required to AVOID in any new development project someone could undertake with the only remaining file left is whatever file breaks the sensors in the Liberty/Romer mix.
So starting from a deodexed and deblurred ROM (Fission or even a stock) We pretty much know which files need to be left alone and all the other can be tweaked.
Sure Ang or some other developer could help but the Liberty folks could help just as easily as they know what files they messed with and did not.
And I am willing to bet if we did a comparison of Liberty with a stock D2 ROM we could easily identify all the files the Liberty crew changed and create a system zip that merely included the Liberty customizations but none of the D2 specific files they are relying on and we could come up with a perfectly compatible version of Liberty for the D2G with all of the features but none of the hardware issues Romer has.
And once you got that it should be no problem to keep it up to date with new developments in Liberty as all they need to do is give you a copy of the updated files to replace the old.
Romer was good in reverse engineering and as a proof of concept. But it's time to go in the other direction now.
Instead of adding D2G files to liberty it is time to start adding Liberty files to a standard D2G until we figure out what causes the sensor issues.
And I think if we merely added the customized liberty files that are different than Stock D2 we would find that Most of Liberty development has nothing to do with the actual hardware it's just we never bothered to figure out what they changed and tried to add those to a stock deodexed D2G rom.
Asphyx made alot of really good points. One thing that i dont think you realize is just what it would take to truly port liberty over (or any rom, just using liberty as an example since you did). We would basically have to completely redo all of the framework files (thats what we've pretty much narrowed it down to with the sensors). That is alot of work. Theres also alot of little tweaks in the code that couldnt be easily identified just by comparing. Would have to look at each line of code to do it that way and well, thats just not feasible when we can just do the current method of it with the ROMer. Im not sayng it cant be done, Im just saying that its impractical to.
I think the biggest problem is that there just arent any real devs with the d2g, they all have either d2's or dx's which are pretty much the same file wise.
I think the biggest problem is that there just arent any real devs with the d2g, they all have either d2's or dx's which are pretty much the same file wise.
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