Goodbye illegal tethering

[champaned_out]

Just as a random question guys, who is really using over 10gb a month? like i can honestly say i have never come close to that on my 12mbps cable internet. That is way above streaming music and movies. idk what people are doing, i get a max of 1.2 mbps on 3g... Downloading a torrent would be painfully slow at that speed. It would take days. A lot of peeps have been using 30gb a month as an example. haha on a 30 day month thats a gig a day. I guess im no heavy user but thats just alot.

I'm not ashamed to admit it but these days i easily use over 10gb a month on my home internet... Mainly because I download full .ISO files... For example I downloaded the game bulletstorm just a week ago and that file alone is 7.6gb.. and that's in one day within a 2hour period

Now as for my data plan on my cell phone... I've never gone above or even come close to 2gb.. my house only gets 1 bar of reception so tethering my pc is out of the question..

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[champaned_out]

What's not the case? Yeah, its all in the fine print, what's your point?

Its not a case of how you use your data, its a case of youre not supposed to use your phone as a modem unless you have a plan that allows you to do so. Fine print that you agree to says something along the lines of "I will adhere to the terms of my plan and yada yada." In which case a $30 unlimited data plan is not a tethering plan, but the $60 unlimited data plus tethering plan does include tethering.

now believe me, ive done it and still do occasionally bur I understand why they do it.

I understand they have every legal right to do that, I don't contest that at all, its the fact that I'm buying something (data) and now I have to buy permission to use the data how I please, same up/down rates, same coverage, just a permission, and that's bull s*** if you ask me,

Apply this to any other product, I buy a car, its ultimately mine to do with whatever I please, then the dealership calls you and says "you can't drive on the southside unless you pay another 10k"

Your paying for data on your cellphone not for your home internet or so you can provide others with data... Wireless 3 and 4G networks cant handle the same load as cable and dsl networks can.. imagine if every smartphone user was tethering to their home pc... The network would be so overloaded the data speeds would drop effecting everyone on the network...

Like most people in here said I understand why they need to charge extra for tethering but the price seems overly high and seems like it would turn a lot of potential customers away
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[blackbelt27]

How do you not understand that 1gb of data on my phone is the same as 1gb anywhere else? And how is treathering stealing when you will at the end of the month, pay for it? If I go crazy and use 8 gigs of bandwith on my phone, how is that ANY different than routing 8gigs through my phone, to my computer.

And the car example is perfect,
Car = data
Dealer = carrier
Permission to drive wherever = permission to run data through phone

Data is data, no matter how you spin it, tethering is not some alternate form of data, its simply a way to move YOUR data to somewhere else

 

[kodiak799]

Data is data, no matter how you spin it, tethering is not some alternate form of data, its simply a way to move YOUR data to somewhere else

Tethering is a second device - you're unlimited plan is for data on one device. If you want data for your computer they have mobile broadband plans. $30 DOES NOT get you unlimited data on as many devices as you choose.

99% of people just won't use huge amounts of data on their phone, which is why they were able to offer unlimited data. The device was a natural constraint - most people just won't watch a lot of video on their phone. Even legal "abuse" of downloading video and torrent to transfer to a device is an inconvenience most people with home broadband wouldn't bother with. Besides, most torrents are illegal and video like netflix and hulu can only be streamed, not downloaded and transfered (unless you pay more money to buy the title).

To go back to the car example, my taxes pay for roads and I can drive on them as much as I like. But if I want to drive on the turnpike it costs me money. Some bridges cost me money to use. It costs me money to park on the street in some places.

I have unlimited cable, too. I'm not permitted to splice it 3 different ways to share with my neighbors.

 

[kodiak799]

Really the only other comment I can make is, if you want data on your computer or other device, they sell limited mobile broadband plans for $50 and $80, or you can get unlimited home broadband for $30-$50. People have been gaming the system and they are upset it's coming to an end. Maybe the reality is they can't afford a smartphone if they don't use it as a broadband replacement.

 

[Drosul]

As for the data usage, if you want to tether, then you can pay for it. VZW is not a non-profit organization, last I checked it was a for profit company. If you don't understand the difference between unlimited data from your device and tethering, then you need to do a Google search. If you can't afford the cost to tether if that's your main internet at home, then you probably need to go to a pay as you go plan and a cheap non-smartphone device.

I stand by my point that the only reason companies remotely cares about tethering is because it actually allows users to use part of their contractually promised UNLIMITED data.

Unlimited data on a 3g network is well over 100GB a month (since you're still technically limited via your upload/download speeds)... It's the equivalent of turning your 3g download and upload "ON" and leaving them there for an entire billing cycle. If they get pissy about people using more than 1/20th of that amount, then it is their companies fault for the lack of infrastructure/foresight into data demands.

It's like going to an all you can eat buffet. You get there, then get told you can kicked out for eating more than two pieces of chicken (excessive use clause). That they can limit the amount of food you are allowed to put on your plate (throttling). And that you have to pay 5x the normal price if you use a fork, are then limited to 3 pieces of chicken, and are charged again for every piece after that (tethering clause). The only difference in the data, is that it's getting used.

Now, by the time the summer comes about, this will be a moot point, because the carriers are migrating to data caps, as everyone knows that offering people true unlimited data is already impossible on the current 3g infrastructure, let alone the incoming faster, and still being built 4g infrastructure.

That all said, streaming content is getting more and more popular. Tethered or not, the data caps for the average person need to be raised over meager 2-5GB caps when they are instated. Also, the caps/prices for tethering need to come down substantially. It's the same data, but it costs far more than the phones data. It's obvious there is a strong demand for tethering features, and it's also obvious that the current pricepoints are forcing multitudes of people to turn to third party solutions.

 

[CD95YJ]

My opinion on this:

They are offering unlimited data.

They are getting mad about power users actually utilizing their data, above the average person (Ignoring for the moment, whether they are tethered or not) to the point where their own networks are having trouble keeping up.

The elephant in the room isn't that tethered people are using too much data, it's that the carriers simply can't handle their own advertised UNLIMITED data rates for the speeds.

It's their own lack of infrastructure that leads them to add that qualifying line near their unlimited statement that they can basically cancel you at any time they think you are overusing it... And that same lack of infrastructure that causes them to nickle and dime tetherers with fairly ludicrous data charges and limitations

The problem isn't the amount of data being used, its the packet size. Pandora runs differently on your computer than it does on your phone in terms of data rate. When a wireless phone company sets up a system for data its geared towards the data a phone can use and not what a computer is going to use. Its like asking a semi truck to beat a lambo in a quarter mile race.

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[geoff5093]

As for the data usage, if you want to tether, then you can pay for it. VZW is not a non-profit organization, last I checked it was a for profit company. If you don't understand the difference between unlimited data from your device and tethering, then you need to do a Google search. If you can't afford the cost to tether if that's your main internet at home, then you probably need to go to a pay as you go plan and a cheap non-smartphone device.

It's like going to an all you can eat buffet. You get there, then get told you can kicked out for eating more than two pieces of chicken (excessive use clause). That they can limit the amount of food you are allowed to put on your plate (throttling). And that you have to pay 5x the normal price if you use a fork, are then limited to 3 pieces of chicken, and are charged again for every piece after that (tethering clause). The only difference in the data, is that it's getting used.

Now using your analogy, eating whatever you like at an all you can eat buffet is perfectly fine, they can't kick you out because of that. However the equivalent of tethering would be letting other people eat food from your plate as well.

 

[ChelseaBlue]

How do you not understand that 1gb of data on my phone is the same as 1gb anywhere else? And how is treathering stealing when you will at the end of the month, pay for it? If I go crazy and use 8 gigs of bandwith on my phone, how is that ANY different than routing 8gigs through my phone, to my computer.

And the car example is perfect,
Car = data
Dealer = carrier
Permission to drive wherever = permission to run data through phone

Data is data, no matter how you spin it, tethering is not some alternate form of data, its simply a way to move YOUR data to somewhere else

I understand what you're getting at and you're completely right data use is data use, but here's the thing, its the amount. Nowadays a gig doesn't go very far. When you browse your computer do you know how much you're actively downloading? Some sites are heavier, if you will, than others.

 

[kodiak799]

That all said, streaming content is getting more and more popular. Tethered or not, the data caps for the average person need to be raised over meager 2-5GB caps when they are instated. Also, the caps/prices for tethering need to come down substantially. It's the same data, but it costs far more than the phones data. It's obvious there is a strong demand for tethering features, and it's also obvious that the current pricepoints are forcing multitudes of people to turn to third party solutions.

Probably another thread topic, but it will be very interesting what happens with HDMI mirroring. I don't totally understand what AT&T is doing, but I believe they wanted to add a tethering premium for the Atrix dock. Not sure how they could tell unless the packets are different since it's a little different from mirroring.

I suppose the easy answer is they will throttle. And maybe HDMI out will be overrated - can't imagine watching video compressed for a cell phone on a screen much over 20 inches, the quality would be horrible. But I'm thinking plug-in a 19" LCD monitor and set user agent to PC/Desktop and browsing would be pretty good.

The compression is key here. HD Netflix on my computer is maybe 3 gigs for a movie...On my phone I think it might be 150 megs (smaller screen and 480p vs. 720p?). So even then you have to watch a heck of a lot of video and listen to a ton of streaming music to go over 5 gigs, unless you torrent.

 

[ChelseaBlue]

As for the data usage, if you want to tether, then you can pay for it. VZW is not a non-profit organization, last I checked it was a for profit company. If you don't understand the difference between unlimited data from your device and tethering, then you need to do a Google search. If you can't afford the cost to tether if that's your main internet at home, then you probably need to go to a pay as you go plan and a cheap non-smartphone device.

It's like going to an all you can eat buffet. You get there, then get told you can kicked out for eating more than two pieces of chicken (excessive use clause). That they can limit the amount of food you are allowed to put on your plate (throttling). And that you have to pay 5x the normal price if you use a fork, are then limited to 3 pieces of chicken, and are charged again for every piece after that (tethering clause). The only difference in the data, is that it's getting used.

Now using your analogy, eating whatever you like at an all you can eat buffet is perfectly fine, they can't kick you out because of that. However the equivalent of tethering would be letting other people eat food from your plate as well.

or to go one step further, on that you can't get adoggie bag at an AYCEbuffet.

 

[czerdrill]

How do you not understand that 1gb of data on my phone is the same as 1gb anywhere else? And how is treathering stealing when you will at the end of the month, pay for it? If I go crazy and use 8 gigs of bandwith on my phone, how is that ANY different than routing 8gigs through my phone, to my computer.

And the car example is perfect,
Car = data
Dealer = carrier
Permission to drive wherever = permission to run data through phone

Data is data, no matter how you spin it, tethering is not some alternate form of data, its simply a way to move YOUR data to somewhere else

if you insist on not understanding there's no point in talking about it. data is data. no one is arguing that 1gb on your phone is suddenly magical and has superpowers when its on your computer. the point is, and this is the part that you and many others continue to miss (more like refuse to listen to), that verizon is not including the ability to tether in their provisions of unlimited data. had you read your TOS you'd know this going in, and you have the right to leave if you don't like it.

your car example is flawed, even if you dont want to accept it. what you're suggesting is the dealer promised you you'd be able to drive wherever you want and then reneged once you got the car. that's not what happened. what would have happened (if we're using your flawed example) is the dealer sold you the car, and told you "sorry you can't drive on main st with this car though, do you agree with that?" and then you would have said "yes i agree with that, and here i'll prove it by signing right here"....and then getting upset when you get to main street and your car shuts down. it's a little kid mentality. you're not paying for tethering no matter how much you want to convince yourself that you are or that it should be included. you didn't purchase a tethering plan, plain and simple.

Tethering your device is not the same as using your device on their network.

no one is saying that main st is not a street, or that data is not data. i dont expect you to understand this, because you are dead set on not understanding, but it really is amazing that you (and others) don't get it.

 

[kodiak799]

Now using your analogy, eating whatever you like at an all you can eat buffet is perfectly fine, they can't kick you out because of that. However the equivalent of tethering would be letting other people eat food from your plate as well.

Haha, yes! Buy 1 buffet and the whole family eats from the same plate. Or a better comparison would be taking food home with you to eat later (afterall, you paid for all you could eat).

It's also a good point that some data, such as video, is more compressed for a smartphone than it would be for PC or PS3 on a tether. Website, too, are more data intensive on those devices. So the "unlimited" data on your phone might be 5gigs a month, but those other devices could be 15gigs. So there's an obvious difference and obvious issue there, which is probably why VZW said from the beginning here that tethering was explicitly excluded. It doesn't matter whether one feels data is data, the agreement is for unlimited data on a specific device. There's no leg to stand on defending tethering.

To go back to the car analogy, it's like renting an economy car and then taking the Escalade off the lot. I mean, you paid for a car so why can't you just choose any car on the lot? Obviously you rented a specific car, just like you got unlimited data for a SPECIFIC device.

Like someone else said, this is really just people trying to justify taking advantage of the system. Hey, more power to you for "sticking it to the man". Just don't whine about it when those exploits get shutdown.

 

[czerdrill]

Now using your analogy, eating whatever you like at an all you can eat buffet is perfectly fine, they can't kick you out because of that. However the equivalent of tethering would be letting other people eat food from your plate as well.

Haha, yes! Buy 1 buffet and the whole family eats from the same plate. Or a better comparison would be taking food home with you to eat later (afterall, you paid for all you could eat).

It's also a good point that some data, such as video, is more compressed for a smartphone than it would be for PC or PS3 on a tether. Website, too, are more data intensive on those devices. So the "unlimited" data on your phone might be 5gigs a month, but those other devices could be 15gigs.

To go back to the car analogy, it's like renting an economy car and then taking the Escalade off the lot. I mean, you paid for a car so why can't you just choose any car on the lot? Obviously you rented a specific car, just like you got unlimited data for a SPECIFIC device.

Like someone else said, this is really just people trying to justify taking advantage of the system. Hey, more power to you for "sticking it to the man". Just don't whine about it when those exploits get shutdown.

couldn't have said it better myself. i mean you people know that what you're doing is wrong, but then want to complain when a company decides to stop it? Gimme a break.

If everyone is so confident that "I bought unlimited" why don't you call Verizon up and tell them that you are tethering without a tethering plan because you got unlimited and you paid for unlimited. And then come back and tell us what they say. Just enjoy it while you can, Verizon has every right to and will shut it down eventually. Crying about it is pointless.

 

[kodiak799]

If everyone is so confident that "I bought unlimited" why don't you call Verizon up and tell them that you are tethering without a tethering plan because you got unlimited and you paid for unlimited. And then come back and tell us what they say. Just enjoy it while you can, Verizon has every right to and will shut it down eventually. Crying about it is pointless.

It would make some sense when they go to caps to just take a "data is data" approach and ignore tethering. $30 for 3gigs and $50 for 5 and $80 for 10 would be entirely consistent with mobile broadband while being pretty transparent and uneventful for most users (whom use well less than 3 gigs a month). But would be a heck of a nice benefit for the mobile broadband people to basically get their smartphone thrown in for free.

Of course, a few gigs of tether isn't worth a whole lot (that's ONE netflix movie!). And that's what has people in an uproar because some of the tetherers are using way more than 10 gigs a month and many probably don't have another $30 for a higher plan or to turn home broadband back on.

I'm cool with 2-3gigs at top speed for $30. I'd love an all-inclusive $80 plan, but 10 gigs probably isn't enough for me to ditch home broadband and there's no savings there for me.

Maybe a few years from now things will change. Competition from AT&T, Sprint and TMO will drive prices lower eventually. But I think the big deal is the bottleneck of being able to only put up so many towers. Sounds like new tech is on the way to fix that and then we should start seeing maybe $80 for unlimited everything everywhere (keep in mind the cable companies still own most of the pipes and they'll get their $50 one way or the other).