Allocation of 4G data - thoughts?

[Nyobie]

I've been reading and experiencing issues with 4G and got to wondering if VZ controls the allocation of available service capacity to users based upon phone model, service plan, or any other factors in some combination.

We've seen articles and threads on throttling, but I think this might explain how we can be in the same room with a friend or relative with the same phone model but one has 4G with no issues while the other has no data at all, or any of the other data indicators (3G, 1X, etc.).

Thoughts?

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt

 

[Nyobie]

Anyone?

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt

 

[Blacksheep427]

I'm not saying they cannot or would not, but why would they enable intentional individual data loss capability? I am sure that with the required usage monitoring for billing, they could in theory do this. But, is there not a risk of frustrating a customer by this to the point they break contract and get service elsewhere?

 

[Nyobie]

Well, theoretically, if data traffic were at a high level say, at 6PM on Tuesday evening, it wouldn't make sense for VZ to allow someone who is connected via 4G, to stay connected all day simply because he initiated wifi hotspot for high data usage but not allow a person who periodically surfs the internet via his 4G, to get connected at all, so VZ *could* bump someone off who had a fast 4G connection to allow someone who hasn't had a connection in a while, to use the 4G system. If there was such an ability VZ made use of, this *could* explain why two people sitting next to each other with the same phone models have two different data connectivity displays - one with 4G and the other with 1X or no signal at all. VZ could rotate who gets bumped based on a number of factors. I'm not saying they're doing this, I'm just saying that maybe this would explain why people in the same general area have differing experiences.

There's an unexplained phenomenon going on and I thought perhaps something like this is going on why VZ works feverishly to expand their capacity to address these issues. I've been following many threads on this forum and there are a multitude of comments people have made which they've explained how they were able to get 4G to come back, but only sporadically. I tried a couple of methods such as powering the phone down, removing the battery cover, removing the battery, removing the SIM, reinstalling everything and powering back up and also downloading the Phone Info app from the market, activating the app, selecting 'Phone information' and changing the drop down to 'LTE mode', then back to 'CDMA + LTE/EvDo auto' and watching 4G come back from having no data connectivity at all.

I was in the midst of a 4G outage when I tried the latter of the two methods I mentioned but instead of putting the phone back into the 'CDMA + LTE/EvDo' mode, I left it in 'LTE mode' and I've not had a single data drop since. It's been almost two days but others in the same Detroit Metro area are still seeing outages.

I think you're right though. VZ is running the risk of frustrating customers if indeed they are network managing with a method like this and they will lose customers but I think that would all be accounted for in their Risk Assessment. They could be willing to suffer the attrition rate of doing something like this but possibly don't have much choice while they work to get more capacity. According to this article (Outages put Verizon's 4G network to the test - CBS News) this time last year, VZ launched LTE in 38 markets. By the end of this year, they're expecting to reach 190 markets. Those of us with VZ are helping to subsidize this expansion and although VZ is known to be one of the most expensive carriers for what you pay for, there is no better when it comes to coverage and it's only getting better.

I hope that within a short span of time (like weeks, not months), those of us who experience network outages are rewarded by having the fastest most reliable network available. Admittedly, it's kind of fun to mess with my iPhone friends who try to look something up on the internet using their 3G iPhone and while they wait for the browser to respond, I not only have the info already up on my phone, but I'm reading it off to them and they're still waiting. Just imagine what it'll be like if and when VZ gets the network stabilized and grown to the levels they plan to have in place through next year... just imagine the possibilities! It's worth my $240 per month with a corporate discount and 3 phone lines (1 home and 2 mobile with Unlimited Data w/Hotspot) just to stick around long enough to experience the greatest network ever made!

 

[Blacksheep427]

In regards to the one-upmanship ability of VZW's 4G, I experienced it myself. It was not the iPhone vs Android, but VZW vs Sprint and if there is 4G coverage yet. A friend of mine and I were discussing whether or not 4G was in the area. I stated that it was, and that it was quite fast. He did not agree, so I mentioned what speedtest.net results I can get. So then it was "Ok, let's compare test results right now". I got 16.32Mbps down and 10.32 Mbps up, his was lower single digit numbers. Along the comparison test I also noted that his was Sprint and of course I'm on VZW.

Back to selective disconnects, admitted, it is possible. But here's a thing to add in to the equation, remember things like the Thunderbolt random bug thing; that is, some phones work great and others are full of trouble. Could the signal maybe be a bit random too?

 

[Nyobie]

Hee hee!! I imagined the various shades of crimson your buddy's face turned when you compared speed test results. Bet that got him thinking of moving to VZ, eh?

Regarding random bugs, for sure I think statistical variances are seen between phones but what I would love to know us why some report that several days in a row, the phone performs amazingly, then immediately after a VZ OTA push, the phone starts flaking out on the data signal. It happened to me. I'm perplexed.

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt

 

[Charged]

If it was just 4G slowing down to even dialup speeds, then perhaps your theory would make sense. However, I can't stay connected to any type of internet (which is my only source of home internet) for more than a few minutes and then without a 'restart connection' I'm stuck. I've tried doing just 3G and even 1x, but the connection just drops after a few minutes. The 'restart connection' app has at least kept me from having to reboot all the time.

 

[johnd09]

Verizon can't throttle the 4G network under the terms they bought the spectrum that it runs in, and the outages have been caused by internal IP managment systems failing essentially kicking people off the network when it wasn't supposed to.

Sent from my Transformer Prime That Is Taking Over the world.

 

[Nyobie]

If it was just 4G slowing down to even dialup speeds, then perhaps your theory would make sense. However, I can't stay connected to any type of internet (which is my only source of home internet) for more than a few minutes and then without a 'restart connection' I'm stuck. I've tried doing just 3G and even 1x, but the connection just drops after a few minutes. The 'restart connection' app has at least kept me from having to reboot all the time.

Yeah, I think you're right. By the way, I recently read somewhere on this forum that the recent two 4G outages many of us have experienced, had something to do with the way the 4G phones with SIM cards 'connect' to the system after you've either turned your radio to 3G and tried to get back onto the 4G network, or if you lost 4G due to a signal issue based upon your location or other factors. The thread was posted by someone who was theorizing but even said so himself that he wasn't sure, that the 4G connectivity issues might have had something to do with a flaw in the implementation of the SIM based 4G phones. I'll have to do some digging to see if I can find that thread but I think he's onto something that would be a logical reason why some phones will remain in 4G without problems and the guy sitting next to a 4G user can't connect at all. I think his theory makes more sense than the path I was heading down as a possibility but one thing I know for sure is that I'd like to know what's really going on by someone who can explain the ins and outs of the signal issues we're having so we at least know if it's something that they're gonna fix if they can fix it at all.

 

[Nyobie]

Verizon can't throttle the 4G network under the terms they bought the spectrum that it runs in, and the outages have been caused by internal IP managment systems failing essentially kicking people off the network when it wasn't supposed to.

Sent from my Transformer Prime That Is Taking Over the world.

Yep, that's a great point. They're not 'supposed to' being the key. I think that this might be why they have what people are calling a boo boo on their Data Plan and Hotspot Feature where those with a 4G capable phone can call Verizon and eventually get a CS Rep to add the Unlimited Data and Unlimited Hotspot to phones that weren't 'grandfathered' under the original Unlimited Plans. This might be how Verizon would skate potential legal action against them for not having offered these options as a general plan but at the same time, burying the two offerings in areas where only those who dig into Forums and do some research will know that the Unlimited Data Plan and Unlimited Hotspot Feature are both available as changes to our contracts.

I can't see Verizon removing those from their site due to the issue you just mentioned about spectrum limitations. The FCC is already on to the issue about the spectrum limitation and I think this is just VZ's way of responding cleverly.

Those who don't use much data won't take the time to dig into the Unlimited anything options because they're may simply be less interested in that sort of thing.

One thing for sure is that I think we all agree it would be nice to know if VZ is going to fix the nationwide 4G network outages we've seen recently. What good is an Unlimited Data Plan or Unlimited Hotspot if we can't connect?!

 

[rbw62]

Do a speed test, I just ran several from 2 apps, down average is less than 2 mg, up is 0.05.

Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums

 

[Nyobie]

I can't run a speed test at the moment. If I turn on my Mobile Data, VZ attempts to push an OTA and just last night I had reverted to SW Version 2.11.605.5 from .9 so I could Root with Revolutionary and gain S-Off. This morning, I woke up to a soft bricked phone so I have to figure out what I did wrong yesterday so I can freeze the Update app that came with the phone (and of course, freeze the bloatware so they don't load either).

The last speed test I ran was yesterday morning and it was pretty common for my home location. The day prior, I ran it as well. Both days were 6.3K and 7.4K down and 2.9K and .8K up, respectively. When I'm at home, my wifi system outperforms the 4G network so I don't mind using wifi since I'm paying for it already anyway and I don't come anywhere near any possible cap with Comcast.

May I ask why you asked for me to run a speed test? Just curious. Happy New Year!