The "New" New Phone Rumor Mill

[sweeeeet]

droid 4 is pretty nice looking for a QWERTY phone

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[MissionImprobable]

Motorola DROID 4 leaked in Beta build photos - SlashGear

It says non-removable battery here, but it looks like the cover is similar to the Droid 3 and may be able to be exchanged for a larger back with an extended battery. Otherwise this may be a no-go for me; I just don't foresee the stock battery being enough, but I guess time will tell.

 

[akhi216]

I dont think you get what im saying. I realize that our intelligent community has ways around stuff. Im not taking anything away from the dev community. The dev community is NOT moto. It is a reasonable expectation to say that i shouldn't have to depend on third party software tweaks to get rid of something that is forcefully opted in and its a ridiculous to say that i should have to resort to a TECHNICAL violation of my warranty in order to remove a program that clearly has nothing to do with the function of my phone. The apps have nothing to do with the operating system, they are clearly third party apps, and the only way to remove these third party apps is to violate my warranty. While their are ways to slide out of getting my warranty back on my D1, i can say the violation of the warranty occurs when you root it. Just because you return it to stock they have no way of knowing if you rooted it before doesn't mean you didn't violate your warranty terms.
I am sorry about the text you quoted btw, that was an incomplete thought. I was writing it in class and my prof. saw me writing it up and started yelling at me, while she was yelling i was typing blindly and trying to hurry up but then she snatched it out of my hand and it sent somehow. Haha, good times. I got my phone back now luckily. Who cares about philosophy anyway?

I understand perfectly what you saying.

Well the term bloatware/crapware gets paraded around as if it's a standard. What what you may consider crapware, I don't and vice versa. I once read an American guy say that the NFL Mobile app was bloatware and I blew up at him ( how the hell can you be American and not like football???) Manufacturers/carriers target a specific crowd of people when they put apps on a phone. To expect them to please everyone with those apps is ridiculous. Google understood this, and made Android a platform that is pretty much open to hacking and installing custom ROMs that don't have bloatware on them or removing/freezing the bloatware.

The thing is you if you want pure Android, you have to get a Nexus or other developer device (e.g. OG Droid, Xoom, etc.). Many consider Google Books and other Google Apps to be bloatware but you'd better believe that Google is gonna have them on the Nexus, and their attitude about it is if a person doesn't don't like it then they can root it and get rid of it OR...not buy the phone. If a person doesn't feel that the Nexus is bloatware-free and that enrages them and they feel a conviction about rooting the phone because of warranty implications, then perhaps they shouldn't be in the market for smartphones. And the same is the case for non-Nexus phones. And if a person feels that there's nothing wrong with stock Android and all Google apps are necessary, wouldn't that make them no better than iSheep?...

With Android there are options.

Hey it isn't like they're gonna make a phone with a Clean Slate with nothing but Android Market. They're not gonna use psychic powers to determine what a single individual wants preloaded on their phone and market it to the masses, and if they did have psychic power that allowed them to know what the minds of millions of people wanted on their phone they couldn't add everything thus they couldn't please everybody.






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[Trusstopher]

I understand perfectly what you saying.

Well the term bloatware/crapware gets paraded around as if it's a standard. What what you may consider crapware, I don't and vice versa. I once read an American guy say that the NFL Mobile app was bloatware and I blew up at him ( how the hell can you be American and not like football???) Manufacturers/carriers target a specific crowd of people when they put apps on a phone. To expect them to please everyone with those apps is ridiculous. Google understood this, and made Android a platform that is pretty much open to hacking and installing custom ROMs that don't have bloatware on them or removing/freezing the bloatware.

The thing is you if you want pure Android, you have to get a Nexus or other developer device (e.g. OG Droid, Xoom, etc.). Many consider Google Books and other Google Apps to be bloatware but you'd better believe that Google is gonna have them on the Nexus, and their attitude about it is if a person doesn't don't like it then they can root it and get rid of it OR...not buy the phone. If a person doesn't feel that the Nexus is bloatware-free and that enrages them and they feel a conviction about rooting the phone because of warranty implications, then perhaps they shouldn't be in the market for smartphones. And the same is the case for non-Nexus phones.

Hey it isn't like they're gonna make a phone with a Clean Slate with nothing but Android Market. They're not gonna use psychic powers to determine what a single individual wants preloaded on their phone and market it to the masses, and if they did have psychic power that allowed them to know what the minds of millions of people wanted on their phone they couldn't add everything thus they couldn't please everybody.




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But they would please a ton more people if they just gave us the ability to uninstall the apps after we buy the phone without having to do any extra steps besides clicking "uninstall."

I agree with most of your points, but you miss the major kicker, which is "Why can't we have the ability to uninstall them like any other app?" What is the purpose of locking apps that people don't want into the device that are definitely not vital to the operation of the phone?

 

[lemodular]

...Because it's the bloat that keeps the prices of the equipment down. They are obligated to to lock them. Although having a time limited lock is a better idea.

 

[metalspring]

But they would please a ton more people if they just gave us the ability to uninstall the apps after we buy the phone without having to do any extra steps besides clicking "uninstall."

I agree with most of your points, but you miss the major kicker, which is "Why can't we have the ability to uninstall them like any other app?" What is the purpose of locking apps that people don't want into the device that are definitely not vital to the operation of the phone?

I don't know about the Google apps but the ones the carriers put on have a very simple reason for being there (at least I'm pretty sure of this)- they get paid to put them there...for example putting an NFL mobile app is because the NFL probably pays them some amount of money because its basically advertising. It works like this
"oh what's this app? I don't plan on using it so I'll uninstall it. Oh wait I can't, I might as well use it even if I have to pay a small subscription fee. Afterall its on here to stay so I might as well."
Its a case of if you can't get rid of it, you might as well at least try using after awhile of being sick of seeing it take up space uselessly

supercharged modified liquid 3.0
3g turbocharger
Pete's 5 slot lv 1.25GHz
19.8 linpack high score
1843 quadrant high score

 

[akhi216]

But they would please a ton more people if they just gave us the ability to uninstall the apps after we buy the phone without having to do any extra steps besides clicking "uninstall."

Agreed.

I agree with most of your points, but you miss the major kicker, which is "Why can't we have the ability to uninstall them like any other app?"

Point taken.

What is the purpose of locking apps that people don't want into the device that are definitely not vital to the operation of the phone?

I can only speculate that they feel that that a degree of control over the phone is professional and makes them stand out among the rest; probably taking a cue from the iPhone which has been extremely successful despite doing these things, thereby making it a "proven" marketing strategy.





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[akhi216]

I don't know about the Google apps but the ones the carriers put on have a very simple reason for being there (at least I'm pretty sure of this)- they get paid to put them there...for example putting an NFL mobile app is because the NFL probably pays them some amount of money because its basically advertising. It works like this
"oh what's this app? I don't plan on using it so I'll uninstall it. Oh wait I can't, I might as well use it even if I have to pay a small subscription fee. Afterall its on here to stay so I might as well."
Its a case of if you can't get rid of it, you might as well at least try using after awhile of being sick of seeing it take up space uselessly

supercharged modified liquid 3.0
3g turbocharger
Pete's 5 slot lv 1.25GHz
19.8 linpack high score
1843 quadrant high score

That makes a lot of sense until I see things like this:

http://www.mobileburn.com/chtml/mob...x-official-5gb-of-free-storage-for-htc-owners

...then I can't help wonder who's paying who.

Perhaps it goes both ways.

 

[MissionImprobable]

It's again not even a matter of what comes on the phone, it's a matter of them voiding warranties when people remove it. As I said though, just as dealerships lost when trying to deny warranties on modified cars simply because they were modified, and just because Apple tried to declare jailbreaking illegal did not make either correct, nor is Verizon correct in stating that rooting and removing apps is grounds for voiding warranties.

 

[metalspring]

If they are so worried about voiding warranties then why not make them unlockable by a website or something? That way they can make sure you know its voided and they will know it's voided as well? I'm sure people would go around this but I'm sure lots of people wouldn't even bother trying and just use the official way

supercharged modified liquid 3.0
3g turbocharger
Pete's 5 slot lv 1.25GHz
19.8 linpack high score
1843 quadrant high score

 

[metalspring]

The one thing I'm really concerned with is this trend towards unremovable batteries...what happens if you need to pull the battery cause it freezes and how do extended batteries work then?

supercharged modified liquid 3.0
3g turbocharger
Pete's 5 slot lv 1.25GHz
19.8 linpack high score
1843 quadrant high score

 

[ilikemoneygreen]

I understand perfectly what you saying.

Well the term bloatware/crapware gets paraded around as if it's a standard. What what you may consider crapware, I don't and vice versa. I once read an American guy say that the NFL Mobile app was bloatware and I blew up at him ( how the hell can you be American and not like football???) I am not going to rate the content of the apps, im not saying that they install bad apps for you.. they do have a couple good apps.., what im saying is that they install for you and dont give us the ability to uninstall. Manufacturers/carriers target a specific crowd of people when they put apps on a phone. To expect them to please everyone with those apps is ridiculous. I dont expect them to please everyone with them, thats kinda another good point.They dont have to try to please specific people with the preinstalled apps, if someone doesnt like an app guess what? unistall it. Oh wait, you cant. What is the point of having Need for speed on a phone that was bought for a company just to conduct business? Their is none, buisness's have their own apps that would cater to their needs. And to be honest i DO NOT think they try to cater to a specific type of person with the apps, i think a company gives moto and verizon a specific amount of money and high bids win. Google understood this, and made Android a platform that is pretty much open to hacking and installing custom ROMs that don't have bloatware on them or removing/freezing the bloatware. Dont mix up Googles plans with Motos . They are acting as two seperate companies. Moto with verizon does not like hacking or any of that and i think they have done a lot to fight against it. If those encrypted boot loaders didnt show you that then wow.. While our community is resourceful, It has nothing to do with moto. Moto does not say hack your phone if you dont want the app, they just tell you not to buy the phone.

The thing is you if you want pure Android, you have to get a Nexus or other developer device (e.g. OG Droid, Xoom, etc.). I dont need pure android. I currently like pure android because its easiest to hack and get rid of what i don't want. I wouldnt need to hack a moto device if they weren't so controlling. Once controls start going in, i guarantee opposition. It is too controlling of them to make unremovable apps IMO, thus ill buy a nexus to guarentee myself in a less controlled environment . Many consider Google Books and other Google Apps to be bloatware but you'd better believe that Google is gonna have them on the Nexus, and their attitude about it is if a person doesn't don't like it then they can root it and get rid of it OR...not buy the phone. In Googles operating sysem i wouldnt be surprised to see their apps. In motos version of Googles OS i wouldnt be surprised to see MOTOs and Googles apps. They are the ones making the phone... But to compare that to Moto putting Jon Doe devopers app on it and to lock it down like it is a part of the OS is BS. And i totally agree some people do not like those apps, thats why they need to be removable. Apps shouldnt be forced. If a person doesn't feel that the Nexus is bloatware-free and that enrages them and they feel a conviction about rooting the phone because of warranty implications, then perhaps they shouldn't be in the market for smartphones. Wow so No one should give their feedback? we should just be mindless and not buy smartphones? The world is full of feedback, people stick to the best they can have but that does not mean they should just roll with it like sheep. And im not sure what your saying about the warranties their. Rooting violates the warranty, what that means is the company doesnt want anyone messing with their OS. Nexus is a dev phone...Thats seperate from Motos which arnt. Nexus dev phones are made to be hacked. Motos are designed to take as is. And the same is the case for non-Nexus phones. And if a person feels that there's nothing wrong with stock Android and all Google apps are necessary, wouldn't that make them no better than iSheep?... How is wanting the ability to remove forceful apps being isheep? Its the opposite, Customizing my phone to me is what matters, not take what moto is forcing and roll with it.

With Android there are options.

Hey it isn't like they're gonna make a phone with a Clean Slate with nothing but Android Market. They're not gonna use psychic powers to determine what a single individual wants preloaded on their phone and market it to the masses, and if they did have psychic power that allowed them to know what the minds of millions of people wanted on their phone they couldn't add everything thus they couldn't please everybody. Which clearly makes sense, thus making them removable so people who dont like those apps can take them off and the people who like them can leave them.






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Haha wow that took a good ten minutes. :biggrin:

 

[ilikemoneygreen]

And to be honest, i think ICS sidestepped the issue. I think the way they did it was a weak way to do it. they shouldnt lock us out of anything. I should be able to screw up my phones OS if i want, my dream is for a warning that says your attempting to remove a system file and removing could have unwanted consequences, want to continue? thats it. No need to freeze, unfreeze, make it hidden. Just give me a warning the end. Complicating the issue.

 

[akhi216]

ilikemoneygreen - Let's just agree to disagree.



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[ilikemoneygreen]

ilikemoneygreen - Let's just agree to disagree.



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All that thought for not... im gonna cry.:icon_ cry: