Tbolt vs. Bionic w/ signed bootloader?

[Sniper_5]

Yeah I had an LG dare. Its a shame the rest of the phone was junk. Hopefully LG will step up their game for android. I'd like to give a nice quad or dual core LG a shot at the end of the year. For now though I think I may give HTC a shot.

Sent from my DROID running SS5.0@ 1.25Ghz

 

[Dugall12]

I think dual cores are gonna be a waste of time especially in the begining because the software has to be written to take advantage of the dual cores and knowing how fragmented Android is I doubt developers will waste their time producing apps for only high end phones. Personally I'm looking forward to the Thunderbolt after having a moto droid since launch. I'm intrigued by sense and like what it has to offer, plus a kick stand would come in very handy for me also the Thunderbolt has a better front facing camera than the Bionic not to mention the Bionic will be locked down, so by the time I get bored of the Thunderbolt I can enjoy some developer goodness with custom kernals.

 

[Skull One]

Ive never had an issue with Motorola cameras, and everyone seems to forget the main point of dual core isnt just better processing power, but each core can run at a much lower voltage, increasing battery life, not hurting it. The only thing thats going to effect battery life is the user, and 4G which is going to be across the board, not phone specific.

Your statement about "Much Lower Voltage" increasing battery life is slightly exaggerated.

The amount of voltage needed is a product of how much potential is required to reach the forward bias of all the transistors in the path of the computation/instruction execution along with the frequency (faster = less time spent and requires higher voltage to overcome this issue) of the the electrons as they travel thru this path. Since "Dual Cores" have more active transistors due to both CPUs executing some form of code at all times, your theory of increasing battery life is counter to the physical requirements of the transistor based technology being used.

BUT.....

Before you run off and spend sometime with Google trying to prove my explanation wrong, let me clear up a few facts ahead of time for you.

1) Dual Core uses less power than two Single core CPUs. This is fact, because the number of support chips needed are reduced. But that really has nothing to do with your statement.

On the other hand though....

2) Dual Core uses smaller traces (IE die size) which require less power. Fact, but since there are more transistor now running at the same time, the slightly lowered voltage gain is lost by the amount of electrons used to support both cores running at the same speed as a "Single Core" CPU at full speed.

So where doe your statement start to hold water when it comes "Dual Core" CPUs? You can run a "Dual Core" CPU at a lower speed which equates to needing less voltage, which means you will use less power but still be more powerful than that of a "Single Core" CPU overall.

No argument there what-so-ever.

But that savings is going to be less than 10% of the overall battery life of the phone. Mainly because they are going to sell these "Dual Core" phones with clock speeds of 1Ghz or higher which is what "Single Core" phones are already running at.

Now for the kicker. The 4G radio chips are going to be eating more power then 3G chips. Two reasons for that.

1) They are brand new and still need refining.
2) They have higher data throughput and hence need faster chips sets which lead to the whole "need more voltage" the faster you go.

Also, the display of the phone usually eats more power than any other subsystem. So to really see power gains, that is where the breakthroughs will need to be made.

So, long story short. Expect the first generation "Dual Core" phones to have worse battery life over current "Single Core" phones to begin with. And as manufacturing refinements increase, your statement will finally come into parity.

 

[Sniper_5]

Who said anything about arguing? Your clearly more experienced and have done more research, I appreciate the input and clarification. It makes sense. Just another reason to pick the Thunderbolt and hold out for better dual or quad cores later down the road.

 

[kptphalkon]

Also, expect between 10 and 20 percent speed increase (most *idiots* will relate this to quadrant scores) in processing with these first gen dual cores, instead of a doubling of power.

Main issue will be android functionality with dual core procs, also the kernels will be brand new, as companies begin entering into this new territory.

Aside from that current lp ddr2 designs still dont handle enough bandwidth for multiple cores to access the ram as fast as they can process requests.

Now this has always and forever will be an issue with desktops, laptops, and phones. My main point is that with overhead and two cores fighting for share of a memory channel, expect maybe 1.5x read/write to ram versus the theoretical 2x that the ddr2 can provide over ddr.

Sent from the Blue Falcon cockpit on my Fission 2.4.3 D2G

 

[Skull One]

Also, expect between 10 and 20 percent speed increase (most *idiots* will relate this to quadrant scores) in processing with these first gen dual cores, instead of a doubling of power.

Main issue will be android functionality with dual core procs, also the kernels will be brand new, as companies begin entering into this new territory.

Aside from that current lp ddr2 designs still dont handle enough bandwidth for multiple cores to access the ram as fast as they can process requests.

Now this has always and forever will be an issue with desktops, laptops, and phones. My main point is that with overhead and two cores fighting for share of a memory channel, expect maybe 1.5x read/write to ram versus the theoretical 2x that the ddr2 can provide over ddr.

Sent from the Blue Falcon cockpit on my Fission 2.4.3 D2G

You sir a man after my own heart. Thank you for pointing that fact out as well.

 

[kptphalkon]

I also lastly want to point out, to all the haters going on about the bionics 512 vs 768 MB for the tbolt, that this 1.5x ram speed would effectively drop to 1.28-1.33, but that will really only apply to things like huuuggggeee games or other obnoxiously memory hogging apps (tTorrent, anyone?). Either way it is an improvement.

I am sticking with my ballpark figure that the bionic will have a roughly 18% improvement in performance, all things considered.

Now, the question is, are both these devices sdxc compliant? Because if the tbolt isnt my money goes towards bionic as the clear winner.

Sent from the Blue Falcon cockpit on my Fission 2.4.3 D2G

 

[Sniper_5]

dont mind my novice-ness. SDXC?

 

[brock]

Bionic is going to have horrible battery life and a junk camera IMO.

have you noted the difference in size of batteries between the two phones?

 

[Skull One]

dont mind my novice-ness. SDXC?

SDXC is the specification that allows for 64Gig thru 2TB SD cards. Along with baseline speeds of 100MBs and a top end of 300MBs. Basically it would make Hard Drives a thing of the past.

 

[n0yxl]

Bionic is going to have horrible battery life and a junk camera IMO.

have you noted the difference in size of batteries between the two phones?

1930 Mah Bionic

1400 Mah Thunderbolt IIRC....

 

[n0yxl]

I also lastly want to point out, to all the haters going on about the bionics 512 vs 768 MB for the tbolt, that this 1.5x ram speed would effectively drop to 1.28-1.33, but that will really only apply to things like huuuggggeee games or other obnoxiously memory hogging apps (tTorrent, anyone?). Either way it is an improvement.

I am sticking with my ballpark figure that the bionic will have a roughly 18% improvement in performance, all things considered.

Now, the question is, are both these devices sdxc compliant? Because if the tbolt isnt my money goes towards bionic as the clear winner.

Sent from the Blue Falcon cockpit on my Fission 2.4.3 D2G

Both phones are a no go on SDXC specification.

Max "removable memory" caps of each device is stated to be 32gb.

 

[kptphalkon]

I also lastly want to point out, to all the haters going on about the bionics 512 vs 768 MB for the tbolt, that this 1.5x ram speed would effectively drop to 1.28-1.33, but that will really only apply to things like huuuggggeee games or other obnoxiously memory hogging apps (tTorrent, anyone?). Either way it is an improvement.

I am sticking with my ballpark figure that the bionic will have a roughly 18% improvement in performance, all things considered.

Now, the question is, are both these devices sdxc compliant? Because if the tbolt isnt my money goes towards bionic as the clear winner.

Sent from the Blue Falcon cockpit on my Fission 2.4.3 D2G

Both phones are a no go on SDXC specification.

Max "removable memory" caps of each device is stated to be 32gb.

Well that certianly forks it, i am for sure waiting until at least next year to get a dual core, 4G, ddr2, hardware keyboard and sdxc device.

A front facing camera and any other goodie is just a gimmick...do not want.

Sent from the Blue Falcon cockpit on my Fission 2.4.3 D2G

 

[Stelv]

Alright I have a question. Since the tb has a good amount of ram wouldn't that make the battery better than phones with lower ram?...because it could multi task easier and use less resources to start processes?

sent from my rooted nook color

 

[kptphalkon]

Battery life/loss from ram is a big question,

Newer...well every single upgrade of ram, from sdram all the way to the not yet(?) released ddr4, has featured better power management on-chip as well as needing lower voltages. SDRAM was running at 3.3 volts i believe, and DDR brought this down to about 2.5. DDR2 lowered the voltage to 1.9, and ddr3 can go to 1.5 volts or below. Also, the ram in phones is run at an even lower voltage, being specially made for low power platforms.

Power used is offset by the ram running at higher speeds. You will not see any difference in battery life from the ram, i dont think.

But this is purely speculation. Ask all you want, but we will not truly know until these phones are released into the wild and compared.

Sent from the Blue Falcon cockpit on my Fission 2.4.3 D2G