Possible Ways to Crack the Bootloader

[plslowmo]

I'm not really sure, there doesn't seem to be much documentation on this besides, "I've tried it, It will never happen". I'm still trying to learn how this thing is so locked down myself. Supposedly if you were to make a change to a sbf, like changing the bootloader or kernel or radio, it would change the checksum and have to be resigned by Motorola. A good site that I've been looking at, although it is for the Milestone, is start [And Developers].

 

[pecord]

I'm not really sure, there doesn't seem to be much documentation on this besides, "I've tried it, It will never happen". I'm still trying to learn how this thing is so locked down myself. Supposedly if you were to make a change to a sbf, like changing the bootloader or kernel or radio, it would change the checksum and have to be resigned by Motorola. A good site that I've been looking at, although it is for the Milestone, is start [And Developers].

This might help, see post 12, sounds like if you've discovered the key it should be possible to sign an update.zip, no?
How Does HTC Sign Their Roms - Page 2 - xda-developers

How to create private/public key pair using openssl (windows version)
http://www.londatiga.net/it/how-to-sign-apk-zip-files/

 

[czerdrill]

I'm not really sure, there doesn't seem to be much documentation on this besides, "I've tried it, It will never happen". I'm still trying to learn how this thing is so locked down myself. Supposedly if you were to make a change to a sbf, like changing the bootloader or kernel or radio, it would change the checksum and have to be resigned by Motorola. A good site that I've been looking at, although it is for the Milestone, is start [And Developers].

This might help, see post 12, sounds like if you've discovered the key it should be possible to sign an update.zip, no?
How Does HTC Sign Their Roms - Page 2 - xda-developers

How to create private/public key pair using openssl (windows version)
http://www.londatiga.net/it/how-to-sign-apk-zip-files/

I think you guys are thinking cracking 2048 bit encryption is a little too simple...

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[random190user44]

I'm not really sure, there doesn't seem to be much documentation on this besides, "I've tried it, It will never happen". I'm still trying to learn how this thing is so locked down myself. Supposedly if you were to make a change to a sbf, like changing the bootloader or kernel or radio, it would change the checksum and have to be resigned by Motorola. A good site that I've been looking at, although it is for the Milestone, is start [And Developers].

This might help, see post 12, sounds like if you've discovered the key it should be possible to sign an update.zip, no?
How Does HTC Sign Their Roms - Page 2 - xda-developers

How to create private/public key pair using openssl (windows version)
http://www.londatiga.net/it/how-to-sign-apk-zip-files/

I think you guys are thinking cracking 2048 bit encryption is a little too simple...

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Cracking 2048 bit encryption...psshh, I did that yesterday...

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[czerdrill]

This might help, see post 12, sounds like if you've discovered the key it should be possible to sign an update.zip, no?
How Does HTC Sign Their Roms - Page 2 - xda-developers

How to create private/public key pair using openssl (windows version)
http://www.londatiga.net/it/how-to-sign-apk-zip-files/

I think you guys are thinking cracking 2048 bit encryption is a little too simple...

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Cracking 2048 bit encryption...psshh, I did that yesterday...

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Ha well then this bootloader should be a piece of cake!

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[random190user44]

Is cracking the bootloader just flat out impossible? Or is there practically a limitless number of options that *might* work that the community is just trying one after the other?

 

[random190user44]

I don't know alot about doing this, I do know coding, but anyways, even tho I don't know much about androids source code and Motos bootloader, the idea you have about using RSDlite actually makes sense and I think its worth a shot. On another note, I was thinking that all of us that want the moto bootloader unlocked (which there's thousands of us) should all put a 1$ in an account and try to just bribe some at moto to help us, or even just moto themselves to unlock it, lol, if all of put a 1$ in, it would add up to like thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands. That has to be motivation for someone that works at motor and knows how the seceret to unlocking the bootloader lol just a crazy thought I figured I would share. I do have faith that this will be figured out. Harder things then this have been hacked so I honestly think its just a matter of time, ya know.

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This is funny, and probably illegal. A BETTER idea would be to get as many people as possible to donate a dollar, and have the admin of this site hold it and post it as a reward to whoever can crack or find a work around for the bootloader. I'm sure the prize would at least reach 10 thousand +. That would be a pretty big incentive.

 

[dfuser312553]

^That's an decent idea.

 

[czerdrill]

Is cracking the bootloader just flat out impossible? Or is there practically a limitless number of options that *might* work that the community is just trying one after the other?

Yes, impossible.

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[13th angel]

Is cracking the bootloader just flat out impossible? Or is there practically a limitless number of options that *might* work that the community is just trying one after the other?

Yes, impossible.

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Not impossible.... Just very very very very very unlikely.... There are almost literally infinite possibilities it could be.

 

[WugFresh]

Is cracking the bootloader just flat out impossible? Or is there practically a limitless number of options that *might* work that the community is just trying one after the other?

I don't know if its impossible or not considering pslowmo and I are still digging for answers regarding a few new ideas which sound semi-viable in theory, but I do know this:

A LOT of devs before us who are WAY more capable/equipped at tackling this problem then both us combined have tried and failed. That says a lot right there. Sure we can come up with lots of new ideas and that certainly is a good thing because idea generation is definitely an essential step towards reaching any solution, however, even after lots of work and testing, will they actually work? That's a whole other story; although I truly would like to remain confident, and to the same extent, even though I am not ready to give up yet, it must be clearly stated that the chances for actual success in this regard look less and less probable each time a new brilliant dev steps up to the plate and fails. Theory and practice are two very different things, and considering the fact that those who are way more experienced at the "practice" part (the part that actually dictates weather or not it works...) have tried with no avail is hard to ignore if you are a realist. Optimism is good and is necessary when trying to do something that hasn't been done before, but in this world, some things are truly insurmountable, and no matter how much try to succeed and no matter how good your theories are, in the end, brick wall. It sucks, but its the truth. If nothing was impossible then the world wouldn't be interesting. Trying to crack the bootloader is exciting because you know the odds are stacked against you, its like a hackers equivalent to high stakes roulette. That's why I am into it and want to keep pursuing it until I also feel the hurt of the brick wall at the end of the tunnel a few times like the devs before me have. At some point I may actually have to call it quits but I am not quite ready yet, just the chance that we still may have a chance is what keeps me trucking along.

But again, to be real, lets be clear: Koush, Birdman, P3Droid, aliasxerog....

All were not able to do this. And I know as a fact that I am nowhere even close to any of them regarding capabilities, development achievements, and overall experience. So that is the reality. If plslowmo and I were somehow to stumble upon a solution procedure that actually worked, firstly it would probably be more rooted in luck than anything, secondly it would probably be due to something we learned from past attempts by those individuals or other brilliant hackers, and lastly it would surprise us just as much as it would surprise others. In no way do I think we have a better chance than all those who have already tried and failed, we are just going for it anyway, for the sake of the challenge and the highly improbable likelihood that we stumble upon anything meaningful that could be exploited to achieve this near impossible task.

That's just how I feel. plslowmo, please feel free to speak up for yourself if your beliefs are not inline with what I just described.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[plslowmo]

I agree with Wug, alot of real devs have tried this and failed. But that doesnt mean that nobody should try. We came up with a new method(I think) and theres no reason to stop just yet. At the very least I'm going to come out of this knowing alot more than I did.

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[czerdrill]

Is cracking the bootloader just flat out impossible? Or is there practically a limitless number of options that *might* work that the community is just trying one after the other?

Yes, impossible.

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Not impossible.... Just very very very very very unlikely.... There are almost literally infinite possibilities it could be.

If there are literally infinite possibilities then the odds of finding the solution are infinitesimally small. And yes, it is impossible, given today's technology to try to crack a 2048 bit encryption.

let's put this in perspective. 2048 bit encryption is not exclusive to android. it's been around for a while. android devs are not the only ones trying to crack it. there are people far more capable who have tried and failed. governments and private companies employ ethical hackers whose very job it is to find weaknesses/crack things like this. like i've always said, it's not going to be basement devs who figure out something like this...its not meant to be harsh its just a reality check...

i do agree that if you dont try itll definitely never happen, but trying something like this is akin to trying to flap your arms and fly.

i think in everyone's excitement to find a solution, they're forgetting just how secure such encryption is. trust me, it's not your mom and pop encryption where you can just do a USB sniff and find the key and then update.zip your way to Custom ROMs. The people who are trying to crack the bootloader are, honestly, just setting the community back because they're wasting time that could be spent on something that's more realistic.

There's only two ways this will happen: Someone at Moto leaks the keys (highly unlikely because of the legal consequences that that person will face if he does it), or someone figures a workaround to bypass the bootloader (which i guess people are trying and is the only "viable" solution, although that is also highly unlikely). Trying to actually discover keys and crack the bootloader is impossible. No matter how much you guys want to believe its not...

 

[cush2push]

my thought in it would be to look in the gb ota for the keys and most likely it would have to be one of the first things loaded or checked by the bootloader

 

[random190user44]

my thought in it would be to look in the gb ota for the keys and most likely it would have to be one of the first things loaded or checked by the bootloader

Well, based off of what I know so far, that wouldn't work because even if you located the keys, they'd be encrypted.

Id imagine that motorola probably keeps the keys in a safe bolted to the floor with cameras and motion sensors in all directions or something. Is that how it works?

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