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[czerdrill]

So anyone's email or call is actually worth ~25 people in the eyes of the company they are complaining to.

Well, but the relevant number is how many of those 25 will actually take their business elsewhere. VZW being more the problem than Moto aside, if Moto has the best phone you'll still buy it, bloatware or not.

The other way of looking at it, realistically, is that VZW is subsidizing me $25 or whatever somewhere along the line to put bloatware - which I can easily ignore - on my phone. I mean, look at the guy who PAID Best Buy $25 to REMOVE bloatware from his PC!!! Yeah, I'll take the $25 which is really revenue generated by bloatware from someone else so VZW doesn't have to dig deeper into my pockets. It's the carrier version of ads.

precisely. everyone here will give moto a call or live chat with them and then go out and buy a bionic with full bloatware intact. and the cycle will repeat. if you want to hurt em, hit em where it hurts (and that would be not buying their product). The problem though, as already discussed, is this forum completly boycotting Motorola means nothing to them, because this forum is such a small subset of android users and probably an even smaller subset of motorola users. it won't affect them in the least whether or not you buy or don't buy their product.

unless you're buying at full retail, you're getting these phones at a discounted rate. in order to make up some of that difference, verizon commissions bloatware in partnership with some sponsors. as mentioned, ignoring it is easy enough, but if it bugs you that much you always have the option to root and delete forever. not saying it should be like that, but the option does exist.

it boils down to money and profits. as nice a pipe dream as it sounds, i highly doubt vzw will suddenly cease with the bloatware to make a small group of people happy. even if we follow the 1=25 forumla, how many on this forum are actually going to do this? compare that to the millions who won't. the decision will be easy for verizon, and it'll be that the majority don't mind so it's going nowhere.

why is there no bloatware on the iPhone? well...i know no one wants to hear this, but the iphone is not android. That's all it is. Apple definitely has a little more pull in the smartphone world then Google does. It's their phone...their flagship phone...their only phone, and clearly the demand for it is there. I mean you've got every media outlet in the country reporting on it, random cable tv programs sending correspondents out for the announcement, the VZW website slowing down and experiencing server issues after it was announced, late night talk show hosts discussing it in their monologues, etc. I think they just leveraged the hype and convinced VZW to let it slide. More of a "it's this way or the highway", and could VZW really reject the iPhone twice?

 

[pc747]

So let me get this straight you think vzw will pay more for motorola's product than they do apple. I dont buy that one bit. Motorola was in the ditch and the droid brought them back...apple has been king of the mountain for awhile now. Apple can dictate terms because they have the portfolio to back up their product they built the house of at&t and made them a force. Though apple was getting their tales handed to them by samsung they still hold a few high cards in their deck. Motorola has become relevant again but they can not go to a company and demand more money for their product than apple. Sorry bro but that is not gonna happen.

 

[pc747]

So anyone's email or call is actually worth ~25 people in the eyes of the company they are complaining to.

Well, but the relevant number is how many of those 25 will actually take their business elsewhere. VZW being more the problem than Moto aside, if Moto has the best phone you'll still buy it, bloatware or not.

The other way of looking at it, realistically, is that VZW is subsidizing me $25 or whatever somewhere along the line to put bloatware - which I can easily ignore - on my phone. I mean, look at the guy who PAID Best Buy $25 to REMOVE bloatware from his PC!!! Yeah, I'll take the $25 which is really revenue generated by bloatware from someone else so VZW doesn't have to dig deeper into my pockets. It's the carrier version of ads.

precisely. everyone here will give moto a call or live chat with them and then go out and buy a bionic with full bloatware intact. and the cycle will repeat. if you want to hurt em, hit em where it hurts (and that would be not buying their product). The problem though, as already discussed, is this forum completly boycotting Motorola means nothing to them, because this forum is such a small subset of android users and probably an even smaller subset of motorola users. it won't affect them in the least whether or not you buy or don't buy their product.

unless you're buying at full retail, you're getting these phones at a discounted rate. in order to make up some of that difference, verizon commissions bloatware in partnership with some sponsors. as mentioned, ignoring it is easy enough, but if it bugs you that much you always have the option to root and delete forever. not saying it should be like that, but the option does exist.

it boils down to money and profits. as nice a pipe dream as it sounds, i highly doubt vzw will suddenly cease with the bloatware to make a small group of people happy. even if we follow the 1=25 forumla, how many on this forum are actually going to do this? compare that to the millions who won't. the decision will be easy for verizon, and it'll be that the majority don't mind so it's going nowhere.

why is there no bloatware on the iPhone? well...i know no one wants to hear this, but the iphone is not android. That's all it is. Apple definitely has a little more pull in the smartphone world then Google does. It's their phone...their flagship phone...their only phone, and clearly the demand for it is there. I mean you've got every media outlet in the country reporting on it, random cable tv programs sending correspondents out for the announcement, the VZW website slowing down and experiencing server issues after it was announced, late night talk show hosts discussing it in their monologues, etc. I think they just leveraged the hype and convinced VZW to let it slide. More of a "it's this way or the highway", and could VZW really reject the iPhone twice?

We understand that its all about the money I think we all have come to the conclusion that bloatware is gonna be apart of the equation period. But I should not be stuck with that bloat for 2 years or when ever I decide to buy a new device. I should have the option to delete those apps with out rooting.

 

[kodiak799]

So let me get this straight you think vzw will pay more for motorola's product than they do apple.

And all of that is completely irrelevant to the simple fact that VZW makes money off of bloatware and that makes your overall cost cheaper, somewhere in the chain, as a result.

And just because Apple is much bigger and has much more leverage does not mean they didn't give up something in exchange for no bloatware. Pretend otherwise all you want, it's not going to change a rather simple and obvious reality.

It's nothing more than the same concept as ad supported software applied to a different model.

 

[czerdrill]

Well, but the relevant number is how many of those 25 will actually take their business elsewhere. VZW being more the problem than Moto aside, if Moto has the best phone you'll still buy it, bloatware or not.

The other way of looking at it, realistically, is that VZW is subsidizing me $25 or whatever somewhere along the line to put bloatware - which I can easily ignore - on my phone. I mean, look at the guy who PAID Best Buy $25 to REMOVE bloatware from his PC!!! Yeah, I'll take the $25 which is really revenue generated by bloatware from someone else so VZW doesn't have to dig deeper into my pockets. It's the carrier version of ads.

precisely. everyone here will give moto a call or live chat with them and then go out and buy a bionic with full bloatware intact. and the cycle will repeat. if you want to hurt em, hit em where it hurts (and that would be not buying their product). The problem though, as already discussed, is this forum completly boycotting Motorola means nothing to them, because this forum is such a small subset of android users and probably an even smaller subset of motorola users. it won't affect them in the least whether or not you buy or don't buy their product.

unless you're buying at full retail, you're getting these phones at a discounted rate. in order to make up some of that difference, verizon commissions bloatware in partnership with some sponsors. as mentioned, ignoring it is easy enough, but if it bugs you that much you always have the option to root and delete forever. not saying it should be like that, but the option does exist.

it boils down to money and profits. as nice a pipe dream as it sounds, i highly doubt vzw will suddenly cease with the bloatware to make a small group of people happy. even if we follow the 1=25 forumla, how many on this forum are actually going to do this? compare that to the millions who won't. the decision will be easy for verizon, and it'll be that the majority don't mind so it's going nowhere.

why is there no bloatware on the iPhone? well...i know no one wants to hear this, but the iphone is not android. That's all it is. Apple definitely has a little more pull in the smartphone world then Google does. It's their phone...their flagship phone...their only phone, and clearly the demand for it is there. I mean you've got every media outlet in the country reporting on it, random cable tv programs sending correspondents out for the announcement, the VZW website slowing down and experiencing server issues after it was announced, late night talk show hosts discussing it in their monologues, etc. I think they just leveraged the hype and convinced VZW to let it slide. More of a "it's this way or the highway", and could VZW really reject the iPhone twice?

We understand that its all about the money I think we all have come to the conclusion that bloatware is gonna be apart of the equation period. But I should not be stuck with that bloat for 2 years or when ever I decide to buy a new device. I should have the option to delete those apps with out rooting.

ah ok i apologize. i thought you were saying bloat should be removed completely. that'll never happen. i agree there should be a way to remove it, sure. but again, i doubt that'll happen either unless you root. the reason is simple, and it's money. they want someone to say "what the hell is this need for speed thing" and then check it out, hopefully enjoy it and then purchase it or purchase more apps from that dev. i know i'm telling you the obvious, but that really is what it is. no frills, no ulterior motives. it's pure money. and to them its a trade off for you getting that phone at a discounted rate. it's just how business works...

 

[Darkseider]

Done. Spoke with Rhea in live chat and politely voiced my dislike and opinion as well and received an email transcript. Keep it going folks!

 

[cereal killer]

czerdrill and kodiak we understand your points and are not arguing. This is not about guaranteeing an end result. It's about actually doing something rather than complaining and arguing on a Android devoted forum.

Nobody is under the assumption that anything will come of it other than voicing their displeasure with it and letting the company know we do not want this. We want the option to uninstall the bloat

We get that you guys don't really care and feel it's pointless. We are not here to dispute that or tell you you are wrong. There are some, such as myself, who would rather do something rather than do nothing. We are not delusional enough to believe it will in fact change this business practice but if people do nothing it's a guarantee nothing will change.

You have no interest nor do you care and I totally respect that. I just ask that you respect those that do care and want to at least do something. Thats all we are doing here. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Darkseider]

czerdrill and kodiak we understand your points and are not arguing. This is not about guaranteeing an end result. It's about actually doing something rather than complaining and arguing on a Android devoted forum.

Nobody is under the assumption that anything will come of it other than voicing their displeasure with it and letting the company know we do not want this.

We get that you guys don't really care and feel it's pointless. We are not here to dispute that or tell you you are wrong. There are some, such as myself, who would rather do something rather than do nothing. We are not delusional enough to believe it will in fact change this business practice but if people do nothing it's a guarantee nothing will change.

You have no interest nor do you care and I totally respect that. I just ask that you respect those that do care and want to at least do something. Thats all we are doing here. Nothing more nothing less.

QFT

10 char

 

[kodiak799]

We understand that its all about the money I think we all have come to the conclusion that bloatware is gonna be apart of the equation period. But I should not be stuck with that bloat for 2 years or when ever I decide to buy a new device. I should have the option to delete those apps with out rooting.

Yes, you should. But Apple is much bigger than VZW, who is much bigger than the cell divisions of Moto, Samsung, HTC, etc...You can bark at them all you want, but none of them have the leverage to prevent VZW from putting bloatware on their phones.

Sure, everything is negotiable, but you're effectively asking them to pay VZW not to put bloatware on your phone, which isn't going to happen with VZW putting bloatware on all their phones to level the playing field.

 

[pc747]

ah ok i apologize. i thought you were saying bloat should be removed completely. that'll never happen. i agree there should be a way to remove it, sure. but again, i doubt that'll happen either unless you root. the reason is simple, and it's money. they want someone to say "what the hell is this need for speed thing" and then check it out, hopefully enjoy it and then purchase it or purchase more apps from that dev. i know i'm telling you the obvious, but that really is what it is. no frills, no ulterior motives. it's pure money. and to them its a trade off for you getting that phone at a discounted rate. it's just how business works...

You right on that and that is fine. But like need for speed, once the trial period is over the app is stuck on my phone. They can still "have the trial period" but after that point the dev is not gonna make money if I dont buy it, and you just gonna anger people if it can not be removed. So a compromise would be after the free trial period allow me to delete it. Its fair for every one, vzw makes money off promising space, the dev gets the free pub, and in the end if I did not like it we can part ways. I think alot of people can live with that.

 

[kodiak799]

If you want to yell and scream, complain to VZW because they're the one choosing to put bloatware in system apps where it can't be removed without root.

If VZW didn't install bloatware there, it could easily be removed like any other program. I can't really see mfrs putting the destructive power of removing system apps in the hands of the novice user.

 

[cereal killer]

Done. Spoke with Rhea in live chat and politely voiced my dislike and opinion as well and received an email transcript. Keep it going folks!

Good job Darkseider!!

Rhea is scratching her head right about now lol I chatted with her as well

 

[pc747]

they probably figured it out that people are telling friends to express their feelings. The probably have a "complaints about bloatware" file.

 

[GodfatherIP]

So you are not "making trouble" you are wanting to get the same value out of your droid that is on the iphone. In other words if apple stood up and said no to vzw, we are telling motorola we have your back to do the same thing.

LOL, ram on the D1 is 256 and the new phones are 512, as much as 1 gig. I couldn't care less about a few megs of bloatware. Apologies if I have to file this under the "chicken little" category of concerns.

Haha, you say 256 on the D1 like that is a lot of ram, I have a D1 and lack of ram is the biggest problem I have. I am rooted and have removed bloatware, gone down to 3 homescreens with fewer widgets, enabled compcache, and still easily max out my ram (for instance doing tabbed browsing or multitasking with music playing in the background) and see the phone slow down as a result. More ram on newer phones will just be an excuse for them to add more bloat.

Yes I'm sure this bloatware probably helps VZW with some added revenue but where do we draw the line. Would it be acceptable if they added a permanent scrolling banner advertisement above the notification bar? What about if they added pop-up ads into to your launcher? What if when you buy your phone they sign you up for free trial accounts for blockbuster or other services and you have to opt out or start getting billed monthly? It is all just more software to make the phone cheaper for you but the price reduction isn't really free if they are degrading the user experience.

As a consumer it is all about choice and right now with Motorola you have no choice other than to live with the bloatware apps that they are including on their phones (unless you root your device). However now there is a competitor who allows you to choose no bloatware and has taken a stand giving us hope that maybe other manufacturers will follow suit and we can be rid of this annoyance, even if it is a minor one in your eyes. I think most everyone would agree that having the choice to uninstall apps (or not having unwanted apps preinstalled in the first place) is preferable to the current situation with bloatware that cannot be uninstalled. They have been getting away with it because there were no alternatives, hopefully thanks to competition we will see them work harder to please the customers and removing bloatware would be a good start.

 

[pc747]

So you are not "making trouble" you are wanting to get the same value out of your droid that is on the iphone. In other words if apple stood up and said no to vzw, we are telling motorola we have your back to do the same thing.

LOL, ram on the D1 is 256 and the new phones are 512, as much as 1 gig. I couldn't care less about a few megs of bloatware. Apologies if I have to file this under the "chicken little" category of concerns.

Haha, you say 256 on the D1 like that is a lot of ram, I have a D1 and lack of ram is the biggest problem I have. I am rooted and have removed bloatware, gone down to 3 homescreens with fewer widgets, enabled compcache, and still easily max out my ram (for instance doing tabbed browsing or multitasking with music playing in the background) and see the phone slow down as a result. More ram on newer phones will just be an excuse for them to add more bloat.

Yes I'm sure this bloatware probably helps VZW with some added revenue but where do we draw the line. Would it be acceptable if they added a permanent scrolling banner advertisement above the notification bar? What about if they added pop-up ads into to your launcher? What if when you buy your phone they sign you up for free trial accounts for blockbuster or other services and you have to opt out or start getting billed monthly? It is all just more software to make the phone cheaper for you but the price reduction isn't really free if they are degrading the user experience.

As a consumer it is all about choice and right now with Motorola you have no choice other than to live with the bloatware apps that they are including on their phones (unless you root your device). However now there is a competitor who allows you to choose no bloatware and has taken a stand giving us hope that maybe other manufacturers will follow suit and we can be rid of this annoyance, even if it is a minor one in your eyes. I think most everyone would agree that having the choice to uninstall apps (or not having unwanted apps preinstalled in the first place) is preferable to the current situation with bloatware that cannot be uninstalled. They have been getting away with it because there were no alternatives, hopefully thanks to competition we will see them work harder to please the customers and removing bloatware would be a good start.

I see a scrolling banner advertisement in my notification bar and ill probably throw the phone at the vzw rep. Sorry CSR but it would be like an instant reaction that I would not be able to control....call it reflex. But seriously the new droid bionic notification bar actually have the room for that. Seriously who would not be mad to scroll the notification bar to check their message to see an advertisement of any kind.