PDA Net And Verizon Billing...

aminaked

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I'm wondering how VZW can really determine this outside of going to websites on a computer the Droid can't use (which with flash would seem to drop drastically in number) - and some people do full HTML browsing on the Droid so that doesn't cut it, either.

Verizon can analyze your data type and destination. If you're downloading Java applets, netflix streams, playing World of Warcraft, etc. then that's how they could find out.

The way to be sure that they can't see you is to use encryption and a proxy when tethering.

PS: not saying verizon does or ever will monitor for tethering, but they can unless encrypt/proxy
 
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mcatdtDroid

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Glad someone can link statements

But my goal is to tether so much it does ruin it for others.
 

Mawnee

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Just for the record.... playing MMOs uses very little data. I have tested Eve Online, Aion, Everquest and Asherons Call. None use more than 10mb an hour.

Being able to log in from here and there FTW! :)
 

vzwtek

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I'm wondering how VZW can really determine this outside of going to websites on a computer the Droid can't use (which with flash would seem to drop drastically in number) - and some people do full HTML browsing on the Droid so that doesn't cut it, either.

Verizon can analyze your data type and destination. If you're downloading Java applets, netflix streams, playing World of Warcraft, etc. then that's how they could find out.

The way to be sure that they can't see you is to use encryption and a proxy when tethering.

PS: not saying verizon does or ever will monitor for tethering, but they can unless encrypt/proxy

WRRROONNNNGGG!!!!!
They can monitor your data usage still even with proxy becuase you are using your MIN and MTN to access verizons gateway. They can pull up at that point how much data you are using, which again, if it taxes the capability for others to access the network. And they deem it a liability for their capability to provide service for others, expect a good ol DEEEEKE!!!! and heave ho from their services.

But again, they are not going to care for right now, because they are not charging for tiered data. Even if you are on unlimited and they are moving to tiered data, and you are taxing the network. You will face some trouble.
 

aminaked

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I'm wondering how VZW can really determine this outside of going to websites on a computer the Droid can't use (which with flash would seem to drop drastically in number) - and some people do full HTML browsing on the Droid so that doesn't cut it, either.

Verizon can analyze your data type and destination. If you're downloading Java applets, netflix streams, playing World of Warcraft, etc. then that's how they could find out.

The way to be sure that they can't see you is to use encryption and a proxy when tethering.

PS: not saying verizon does or ever will monitor for tethering, but they can unless encrypt/proxy


WRRROONNNNGGG!!!!!
They can monitor your data usage still even with proxy becuase you are using your MIN and MTN to access verizons gateway. They can pull up at that point how much data you are using, which again, if it taxes the capability for others to access the network. And they deem it a liability for their capability to provide service for others, expect a good ol DEEEEKE!!!! and heave ho from their services.

But again, they are not going to care for right now, because they are not charging for tiered data. Even if you are on unlimited and they are moving to tiered data, and you are taxing the network. You will face some trouble.

What are you talking about? What's WRRRRONNNGG with what I wrote? Of course they can tell how much bandwidth you are using. That doesn't prove that you are tethering. The contract says unlimited bandwidth, right? It also says no tethering allowed. If you hide the tethering, they don't have a leg to stand on.

RIGGGHHHHT??
 

SwiftLegend

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Of course there is a chance of getting caught, but don't be stupid. Just because you CAN use something all you want DOESN'T mean you should. You can use your credit card all you want, but it's gonna come back to bite you in the arse when you can't afford the 5,000 dollar bill...
I hope and would expect Verizon not to completely stop us from tethering. If people hear that you can tether with Verizon without problems/limitations, it could make people switch to Verizon, therefore, being a selling point.
As for people who do abuse it, I hope Verizon catches you. You're ruining it for the rest of us. You're just giving Verizon more of a reason to create ways to stop us from tethering.

Only time I use tethering is when I'm at my house upstate. Practically in the middle of the woods, and the only internet service is at my uncles across the field. I only tether when I cba to walk with my laptop over there or when it's late and pitch dark outside. (Don't wanna have to fite off deer :p)
 

kodiak799

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Verizon can analyze your data type and destination. If you're downloading Java applets, netflix streams, playing World of Warcraft, etc. then that's how they could find out.

Just curious as to how that actually works.

I understand some data types are not compatible with the Droid...But what I was trying to say is, how could VZW tell if I'm accessing CNN legitimately on my Droid vs. tethering and going to their cite on my computer? Are you saying the computer CNN would be sending me a different java type that would be a red flag? That also seems like it would be an incredibly massive amount of data to try and analyze.
 
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aminaked

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Verizon can analyze your data type and destination. If you're downloading Java applets, netflix streams, playing World of Warcraft, etc. then that's how they could find out.

Just curious as to how that actually works.

I understand some data types are not compatible with the Droid...But what I was trying to say is, how could VZW tell if I'm accessing CNN legitimately on my Droid vs. tethering and going to their cite on my computer? Are you saying the computer CNN would be sending me a different java type that would be a red flag? That also seems like it would be an incredibly massive amount of data to try and analyze.

Yes, it would be a lot of data to analyze. If they were to do it, they'd pick on the top bandwidth users first.

In your example with CNN, you're right that it might be impossible for VZ to determine that you're requesting the site via tethering. HOWEVER, if your phone doesn't support flash and there's a flash ad downloaded then that's an indicator of tethering. This point may be moot soon as flash is coming to phones.

The same thinking goes for any data that wouldn't make sense going to a phone. A Java applet (this is different from JavaScript), a netflix stream, a silverlight plugin...there's lots of stuff that COULD give you away.

Once again, I'm not trying to scare anyone from free tethering. I'm just talking about what VZ might be able to do.
 

smokiedabong

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This is almost as good as a debate between creationists and evolutionists :laugh: . You got to love the arguments brought by people who don't know how a network protocol works or what the privacy laws are .
 

SwiftLegend

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In your example with CNN, you're right that it might be impossible for VZ to determine that you're requesting the site via tethering. HOWEVER, if your phone doesn't support flash and there's a flash ad downloaded then that's an indicator of tethering. This point may be moot soon as flash is coming to phones.

The same thinking goes for any data that wouldn't make sense going to a phone. A Java applet (this is different from JavaScript), a netflix stream, a silverlight plugin...there's lots of stuff that COULD give you away.

That can be debated. I'm sure verizon knows about roms, especially 2.2 roms where flash is supported. Bet if someone did an anonymous poll on verizon employees, most of thrm have rooted droids/di/dx
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
 

alphawave7

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Verizon can analyze your data type and destination. If you're downloading Java applets, netflix streams, playing World of Warcraft, etc. then that's how they could find out.

Just curious as to how that actually works.

I understand some data types are not compatible with the Droid...But what I was trying to say is, how could VZW tell if I'm accessing CNN legitimately on my Droid vs. tethering and going to their cite on my computer? Are you saying the computer CNN would be sending me a different java type that would be a red flag? That also seems like it would be an incredibly massive amount of data to try and analyze.

I've heard it suggested that the browser headers are different btw. phone and tether...but I only heard that in passing, and cannot recall where..I *think* it was Leo's TWiG or similar...
 

aminaked

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sure the browser on the droid probably has a different user agent string but that isn't necessarily very strong evidence of tethering as some browsers may let you change it
 

alphawave7

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sure the browser on the droid probably has a different user agent string but that isn't necessarily very strong evidence of tethering as some browsers may let you change it

Yep, I can and have on my Nexus One...but who's to say the footprint isn't indistinguishable...I think they're still different, and this is just one of many ways VZN could potentially detect tethering. I'm also wondering if the number of spawned connections could also be a clue....
 

Adecker

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In your example with CNN, you're right that it might be impossible for VZ to determine that you're requesting the site via tethering. HOWEVER, if your phone doesn't support flash and there's a flash ad downloaded then that's an indicator of tethering. This point may be moot soon as flash is coming to phones.

The same thinking goes for any data that wouldn't make sense going to a phone. A Java applet (this is different from JavaScript), a netflix stream, a silverlight plugin...there's lots of stuff that COULD give you away.

That can be debated. I'm sure verizon knows about roms, especially 2.2 roms where flash is supported. Bet if someone did an anonymous poll on verizon employees, most of thrm have rooted droids/di/dx
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

I have a friends thats a VZW rep and he is going to have his BOSS root his Droid 1.
 
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