Verizon Drops The Axe! Will Disconnect Unlimited Data Users Using Extraordinary Amounts Of Data!

[liftedplane]

So what if I haven't been notified by August 31st? Am I in the clear?

Then you should be in the clear

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

 

[Wadman]

So what if I haven't been notified by August 31st? Am I in the clear?

 

[FoxKat]

That's what I've been told by a Verizon technical support, however we can't be sure that's the end of it. It could be simply the first push may signal an end to the first push and the beginning of the next. We just don't know.

 

[jkaod]

Personally, I just think this is just the first step in getting people off of unlimited data. As has been said, there really is no more unlimited data if there is a cap at any level 100Gb is a pretty high cap especially when compared to other carriers. If the other major carriers cap it at about 25Gb, I fully expect Verizon to get to that level too. Why would they keep it higher? Out of the goodness of their corporate heart? I doubt it. I hope it doesn't come to that, but I bet that it will.

 

[FoxKat]

Why shouldn't cellular carriers want to be able to charge on an as-needed basis for their utility service, just like all other utilities? We pay per KiloWatt Hour for electric power, cubic foot for natural gas, per gallon for gasoline, per 1,000 gallons for water, even per channel subscriptions for TV and pay-per-view for movies, etc.

 

[Mustang02]

Why shouldn't cellular carriers want to be able to charge on an as-needed basis for their utility service, just like all other utilities? We pay per KiloWatt Hour for electric power, cubic foot for natural gas, per gallon for gasoline, per 1,000 gallons for water, even per channel subscriptions for TV and pay-per-view for movies, etc.

Kill UDP then. Don't keep the plan at all! Get rid of every plan they don't sell anymore. I see people on old alltel phone plans too. That's why this is stupid. If it's about the network, kill all the old plans after X date and make everyone reup on new plans yearly.

Thats the issue. It's not if UDP is unlimited or it should be 25GB.

 

[Mustang02]

It all makes sense now.

Verizon to acquire Yahoo’s operating business

 

[Wadman]

How are they sending out these notifications are they sending them out through the mail? Will I see something on my account? I don't receive paper bills I only receive online bills so will it be up in the notifications bar there? Sorry for all of the questions just trying to prepare accordingly

 

[liftedplane]

It all makes sense now.

Verizon to acquire Yahoo’s operating business

Yup, get ready for the true Mega Corporations

“Just over a year ago we acquired AOL to enhance our strategy of providing a cross-screen connection for consumers, creators and advertisers. The acquisition of Yahoo will put Verizon in a highly competitive position as a top global mobile media company, and help accelerate our revenue stream in digital advertising.”

Lowell McAdam, Verizon Chairman and CEO



Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

 

[FoxKat]

How are they sending out these notifications are they sending them out through the mail? Will I see something on my account? I don't receive paper bills I only receive online bills so will it be up in the notifications bar there? Sorry for all of the questions just trying to prepare accordingly

You will get a letter if you're targeted.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[tech_head]

Why shouldn't cellular carriers want to be able to charge on an as-needed basis for their utility service, just like all other utilities? We pay per KiloWatt Hour for electric power, cubic foot for natural gas, per gallon for gasoline, per 1,000 gallons for water, even per channel subscriptions for TV and pay-per-view for movies, etc.

They can, just give up the Block-C LTE that they acquired.
Let's be clear "Utilities" can't just charge what they like.
If they are truly regulated like a real utility then in my state the PUC sets the rates.
I live in northern Ca and PG&E does not get to set rates. The PUC sets the rates after public hearing and request from PG&E.

Verizon and other cell carriers have resisted being classified as utilities.

But back to Verizon, they called it "unlimited" not the user.
They didn't put what unlimited was in the fine print.
They agreed to being device and data neutral on their LTE because of Block-C.
They tried to throttle based on class of customer and got slapped by the FCC.
This is nothing less than attempt to throw those user off the network that they could not throttle.

Anyone that get's the letter should forward it and file a formal complaint with the FCC.

If Verizon doesn't want old "grandfathered" plan, then just kill them all and force *EVERYONE* on a grandfathered plan off.

Verizon hase never forced people off old plans. They created the "month to month" and agreed as long as you pay your bill you can keep your rate/plan. The problem is, they can't kill some old plans that they deem unprofitable and leave others in place. The FCC and FTC would take a dim view of selectively eliminating old plans. It's all or nothing.

We'll see if the FCC chimes in after the letters start going out.
This has nothing to do with network integrity and everything to do with them being able to extract 5x-8x the money for 100GB of usage. If t was about network integrity, they wouldn't offer 100GB plans at any price on only charge overages.

This latest attempt forces everyone on to a tiered plan with 100GB being the highest tier.

 

[FoxKat]

I agree with most of what you're saying. True, they don't want to be fully regulated a utility. However where I respectfully disagree is that unfortunately for them they are still in the spotlight and hot seat from the perspective of so many government agencies. We have the FCC and FTC just to start. And true, they can't just charge what they want though perhaps not so much because they would be clamped down upon by regulators and such, but because they would out-price themselves from the market and bleed market share and stock price like a cut to the jugular.

I don't believe they either can hope to or can expect to receive any significant subscribers transitioning from 100GB+ UDP plan consumption paying sub-$100/month rates to tiered 100GB plans at $450/month. It's just completely unrealistic. Those who are using "significantly in excess of 100GB/month" are overwhelmingly people who couldn't possibly absorb a 5X to 8X rate increase. Instead they will move financially sideways or even more likely to a lower pricing tier and then whine and complain. I really think this will be a fiscal sidestep for them, both Verizon and the disenfranchised UDP subscribers. It's about cutting off excess use, period.

As far as selectively eliminating some subscribers in the UDP plans for excessive use, it's in the TOS and they can do what they want. These are expired plans and they have zero obligation to continue them where they deem it's abuse or somehow impinging on the network. Just because Verizon allowed them to go to month to month doesn't mean UDP subscribers are now somehow protected from cancellation. I read the TOS and even posted an excerpt showing the grounds on which they can do this legally.

I believe they can easily show the FCC and FTC that allowing some subscribers using 100GB+ monthly at those extremely low costs to continue is completely unfair to those who now must pay $450 in a new contract to have the same (or even dramatically less), access. If nothing else they can use that as justification for the trimming of the fat

I also respectfully disagree with your second to last comment on that this isn't about network crowding since they offer a 100GB plan. Yes they do but it's at the $450/month rate we talked about. That very high rate supports itself since as they add those subscribers there is financial justification for building out the network in order to support that rate of consumption. In other words there won't be oversaturation of the network from new top tier subscribers because the new influx of revenue can be allocated to increasing network capacity to support them.

How would you feel if you had to buy that new 100GB plan, which has throttled 128Kbps rates for exceeding 100GB, at that painfully high $450 rate knowing that your high monthly fee was going to build out a network while effectively subsidizing others who are paying 1/8 and yet they can use potentially multiples more data than you can depending on how many lines they have in their grandfathered UDP plans? For instance based on Verizon's spokesperson, I can use even as much as 200GB+ on my two shared lines without risk of being forced out. There are some out there with 4 or more UDP lines in one $70/month plan. They could use 400GB/month or more at what another family would have to pay $1,800/month or more to get.

Look, this UDP plan elimination process has been a bitter taste for years now and it's not going to be any less bitter going forward. The bad taste won't end until perhaps even long after the plans are completely shut off. I give Verizon kudos for NOT shutting the entire class of UDP plans down but instead giving extreme latitude to those still hanging on month to month. I'll never average 100GB during the next couple years at least, so I'll watch my "P's and Q's" from the sidelines, and let this play out.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[tech_head]

How would I feel if I had to buy a new plan coming into Verizon knowing they had grandfather UDP. Fine. The same happens to gym fees. There are people paying $50/year for 24 Hour and people paying $50/month for all access. It depends on when you buy in.

We didn't get anything free. We paid full price for phones. Couldn't add minutes, Can get unlimited minutes. Can't get a wearable on the plan. There are limitations and we don't complain about those.

So the fact that I didn't give up my plan should be of no concern to either existing or new customers.
ALso if they want to get rid of grandfathered plans, treat all old plan equally and dump them *ALL*.
Grandfathered plans benefit the company. It means they don't need to force existing users back onto a contract and they don't have any file maintenance. Kicking everyone off an old plan means people would look at alternatives. Grandfathered plans are a way for them to reduce churn.

I'm not affected right now but, next month the cap could be 25GB. If they get away with this, they will just claim that 50GB is too much, then 20, then 10. At that point they have killed the concept of unlimited.

Verizon is the one who said "Unlimited" and forced people to take these plans when you couldn't really consume data. They instituted a $30 smartphone fee.

 

[FoxKat]

How would I feel if I had to buy a new plan coming into Verizon knowing they had grandfather UDP. Fine. The same happens to gym fees. There are people paying $50/year for 24 Hour and people paying $50/month for all access. It depends on when you buy in.

We didn't get anything free. We paid full price for phones. Couldn't add minutes, Can get unlimited minutes. Can't get a wearable on the plan. There are limitations and we don't complain about those.

I got lots free in my UDP. I got subsidized phones, new every two, free 24 month financing, trade-in at 12 months to upgrade, rebates and gift cards of as much as $200 per phone, a free quad-copter last Christmas, got $200 each for trading in 2 old defunct phones, credits to my account for service, the list goes on and on. I've been with Verizon for 23 years and been on the UDP for I don't know how long but it's at least a decade. So I can't add a wearable on the plan... Really, how much does that affect most? I think it's a small impact.

So the fact that I didn't give up my plan should be of no concern to either existing or new customers.

Many feel it's very unfair that some get preferential treatment, and others don't. You're certainly welcome to have your own opinion of that, as am I and others. For me, if I went to a gym and paid $50 for one month, only to find out others are getting 24 hour access at $50/year you can better believe I would have a very poignant discussion with management and would either get a significant discount or leave.

Personally a gym membership doesn't equate a cellular subscription in my mind anyway. One is a life-line and could potentially prevent a crime, save my life or the life of my wife, or another citizen if attacked or during a natural or man-made disaster, terrorism, etc., helping keep my wife and son safe, give my son peace of mind as an Asperger's with separation anxiety, give me access to tremendous resources for news, shopping, education, emergency medical advice, etc... The other, I can sweat with a lot of other sweating people on a piece of equipment that I also have in my basement and can do in private.

ALso if they want to get rid of grandfathered plans, treat all old plan equally and dump them *ALL*.

I actually agree with this for the most part. If they'd done this long ago they would have stopped all the rhetoric and prevented a lot of bad publicity. Who knows, they might even have greater membership. Still, it's the few who ruin it for the many.

Grandfathered plans benefit the company. It means they don't need to force existing users back onto a contract and they don't have any file maintenance. Kicking everyone off an old plan means people would look at alternatives. Grandfathered plans are a way for them to reduce churn.

Sure, not kicking them off reduces churn, but I really don't think it benefits the company all that much, other than preventing fallout. It takes money to push data, and the more data you push, the more money it takes. Some people seem to think that once the bandwidth equipment is in place, there's no difference in cost between 1TB/second and 2TB/second from cellular towers. Unfortunately they are mistaken. The more data being pushed, the more POWER in Watts being pushed out of those antennas it takes. Power uses electricity - something Verizon has to pay the local electric power company for.

Greater data also requires more support staff, which translates into salaries, benefits, insurance protection, equipment, etc. There are a myriad of added expenses for each TB of data transmitted and although the average (or aggregate) costs per TB do go down with greater amounts, the TOTAL costs still go up. Just like any business, cost accounting is in play here, and those who use excessive amounts are hitting that balance sheet significantly harder than others.

I'm not affected right now but, next month the cap could be 25GB. If they get away with this, they will just claim that 50GB is too much, then 20, then 10. At that point they have killed the concept of unlimited.

I don't believe it will ever get to a 10GB threshold, or even 25. By then the plans would be no longer cost effective against similarly priced tiered plans and they would go away with attrition. In fact, right now, my plan would be closer to 40GB in a tiered plan once you add in all the per-phone fees I pay along with other things that are wrapped into the tiered flat pricing plans. I did the comparison.

Verizon is the one who said "Unlimited" and forced people to take these plans when you couldn't really consume data. They instituted a $30 smartphone fee.

I was never "forced" to take UDP. There were plenty of alternative plans available but for me with 4 phones at that time, it made the most sense. There were some months where I paid well in excess of $600 per month in the previous non-UDP plans going back as much as 20 years ago. The UDP plan when it came out, was a HUGE discount for me since it gave me at that time, 1,400 minutes of voice for one flat fee between all 4 phones (which is where the previous plan was leeching me), plus Friends and Family for 10 frequently called numbers (also a huge benefit), and Mobile to Mobile free. Unlimited Data was simply an added benefit which I didn't even really benefit from until just these last few years.

 

[tech_head]

Many feel it's very unfair that some get preferential treatment, and others don't. You're certainly welcome to have your own opinion of that, as am I and others. For me, if I went to a gym and paid $50 for one month, only to find out others are getting 24 hour access at $50/year you can better believe I would have a very poignant discussion with management and would either get a significant discount or leave.

Explain how being a long time subscriber and having a grandfathered plan is preferential treatment?
Just because they no longer offer something that I have doesn't make it unfair? Companies discontinue promotions or offerings all the time. Verizon has a policy of allowing anyone to keep a grandfathered plan.

As for the gym you would leave. There are plenty of 24 Hour Fitness people that got in early and paid $300 introductory and were grandfathered in at $50-100/year. They don't offer it anymore but they can't discontinue it either. I pay about $240/year and have unlimited access at all clubs owned by 24 Hour. There are people that are going to be bent, so be it.

Personally a gym membership doesn't equate a cellular subscription in my mind anyway. One is a life-line and could potentially prevent a crime, save my life or the life of my wife, or another citizen if attacked or during a natural or man-made disaster, terrorism, etc., helping keep my wife and son safe, give my son peace of mind as an Asperger's with separation anxiety, give me access to tremendous resources for news, shopping, education, emergency medical advice, etc... The other, I can sweat with a lot of other sweating people on a piece of equipment that I also have in my basement and can do in private.

Actually it is a good analogy. A cell phone isn't mandatory in any way shape or form.
I know people that don't have them and don't want them.

I actually agree with this for the most part. If they'd done this long ago they would have stopped all the rhetoric and prevented a lot of bad publicity. Who knows, they might even have greater membership. Still, it's the few who ruin it for the many.

People using it like they were sold, is not "ruining it".

Sure, not kicking them off reduces churn, but I really don't think it benefits the company all that much, other than preventing fallout. It takes money to push data, and the more data you push, the more money it takes. Some people seem to think that once the bandwidth equipment is in place, there's no difference in cost between 1TB/second and 2TB/second from cellular towers. Unfortunately they are mistaken. The more data being pushed, the more POWER in Watts being pushed out of those antennas it takes. Power uses electricity - something Verizon has to pay the local electric power company for.

It benefits them in a huge way. Forcing people off a plan to do something different where they must look at cost of minutes, texts, and data absolutely would increase churn. This is exactly why they don't make people chose a new plan when an old one goes away. It also would increase their costs to manage transition to new plans whenever a plan went away.

Greater data also requires more support staff, which translates into salaries, benefits, insurance protection, equipment, etc. There are a myriad of added expenses for each TB of data transmitted and although the average (or aggregate) costs per TB do go down with greater amounts, the TOTAL costs still go up. Just like any business, cost accounting is in play here, and those who use excessive amounts are hitting that balance sheet significantly harder than others.

Wrong. Greater data does not create more costs. As network equipment is replaced no additional cost for increased bandwidth is needed. That's like saying there is increased cost when a company deploys faster routers. Unless their equipment footprint changes, there is no incremental cost to deliver the data. I would argue that once deployed the cost for 1TB or 20TB of transmitted data doesn't change. Now building of the infrastructure may cost but once in place there is no incremental cost for delivering data.

I worked for PacBell before they were acquired by SBC. I worked in their Wire Center Planning department. That department predicted line growth and new switch deployment and replacement.
Cost to manage a network has nothing to do with the data transmitted. It is based on the equipment installed.

I don't believe it will ever get to a 10GB threshold, or even 25. By then the plans would be no longer cost effective against similarly priced tiered plans and they would go away with attrition. In fact, right now, my plan would be closer to 40GB in a tiered plan once you add in all the per-phone fees I pay along with other things that are wrapped into the tiered flat pricing plans. I did the comparison.

Right now moving to a tiered plan with four lines of unlimited data would give me less for more money.

I was never "forced" to take UDP. There were plenty of alternative plans available but for me with 4 phones at that time, it made the most sense. There were some months where I paid well in excess of $600 per month in the previous non-UDP plans going back as much as 20 years ago. The UDP plan when it came out, was a HUGE discount for me since it gave me at that time, 1,400 minutes of voice for one flat fee between all 4 phones (which is where the previous plan was leeching me), plus Friends and Family for 10 frequently called numbers (also a huge benefit), and Mobile to Mobile free. Unlimited Data was simply an added benefit which I didn't even really benefit from until just these last few years.

Verizon forced unlimited on customers in Nov 2008.
Verizon Makes Data Plans Mandatory on Smartphones
(The link also has a thread about how people were miffed that Verizon was forcing a $30 surcharge on every smart phone).
People with phones purchased before Nov 2008, were grandfathered on their old plans.
If you wanted a phone sold after Nov. 2008, you were forced to take a $29.99 data plan.
I know, I have had a smartphone on Verizon since 2006.

Maybe you thought that it was a nice choice, but make no mistake Verizon forced unlimited data on users. Even people at the time that used WiFi were not given that as an option. I asked and was denied.