Verizon Clarifies Their Policy on Locked Bootloaders in a Letter to the FCC

[Talon66721]

Petition: Verizon Wireless' continued locking of bootloaders: Allow Consumers full control of their android devices | Change.org

lets get some signatures on this... any ideas for the letter are welcome

then we can not only forward this but we could all email her

Signed- number 8. Pretty sad people. Let's help out here. Only takes a second.

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[jrracinfan]

Petition signed. #9

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[kodiak799]

"The letter states that unlocked bootloaders would allow users to run software that could "negatively impact how the phone connects to the network" and "the wireless experience for other customers"."

Basically, illegal tethering can negatively impact the network, not to mention bricking phones of ignorant novices. The Nexus is, technically, a developer device. Nothing to see here.

 

[LaurelRaven]

"The letter states that unlocked bootloaders would allow users to run software that could "negatively impact how the phone connects to the network" and "the wireless experience for other customers"."

Basically, illegal tethering can negatively impact the network, not to mention bricking phones of ignorant novices. The Nexus is, technically, a developer device. Nothing to see here.

How can it negatively impact the network for me to use more of the 4 gigs I'm already paying for? Am I not allowed to use as much of that as I choose?

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[liftedplane]

"The letter states that unlocked bootloaders would allow users to run software that could "negatively impact how the phone connects to the network" and "the wireless experience for other customers"."

Basically, illegal tethering can negatively impact the network, not to mention bricking phones of ignorant novices. The Nexus is, technically, a developer device. Nothing to see here.

You can't seriously be that much of an idiot can you? These phones can view and download full size files and movies from the internet, multiple tabs and downloads at once, the exact same as a PC, no faster no different, the bandwidth doesn't change. If i pay for 4gb a month and i want to use some of it on my pc through my phone that shouldn't be a problem.

Verizon lies about the tethering so they have another way to nickel and dime their customers.

Bricking phones by ignorant novices yes. That's why you lose your warranty or have to pay your insurance deductible when you decide to mod, it's a chance we all take.

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[brad92]

Signed- number 8. Pretty sad people. Let's help out here. Only takes a second.

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I have signed about 5 of those since I have owned my X. Motorola doesn't care. We had some that had thousands of signatures and its not like it changed anything.

MIUI 2012.2.29

 

[kodiak799]

How can it negatively impact the network for me to use more of the 4 gigs I'm already paying for? Am I not allowed to use as much of that as I choose?

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Because pricing is designed to optimize revenues according to capacity. You're not so much the issue as someone replacing their home ISP with tethering and racking up 10, 20 or 80 gigs a month. And it's been discussed ad nauseum - you are not paying for tethering no matter how you try to justify it.

I do agree with you that limited plans should be able to use their data as they see fit, although it still affects their pricing (maybe a person averages 2 gigs on their phone, but throw in tethering and now they are using 4gigs, so you would charge more for that as you are supplying more and the consumer is demanding more). But this is mostly about unlimited plans bogging down the network with massive amounts of tethering.

 

[kodiak799]

You can't seriously be that much of an idiot can you? These phones can view and download full size files and movies from the internet, multiple tabs and downloads at once, the exact same as a PC, no faster no different, the bandwidth doesn't change. If i pay for 4gb a month and i want to use some of it on my pc through my phone that shouldn't be a problem.

It's been discussed to death on these boards, and this will get the thread shutdown along with you getting a warning if you don't tone it down. Tablets and PC's use more data because people use them more given it's a superior viewing experience. At home I use my pc almost exclusively vs. phone or tablet. My mobile data would go from less than 2 gigs a month to well over 30 if I tethered. VZW would clearly price that usage differently - and they do. You don't pay for tethering. It's an add-on service VZW sells. End of discussion.

 

[liftedplane]

I have signed about 5 of those since I have owned my X. Motorola doesn't care. We had some that had thousands of signatures and its not like it changed anything.

MIUI 2012.2.29

That's not for motorola it's to send to the FCC contact along with a letter

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[liftedplane]

It's been discussed to death on these boards, and this will get the thread shutdown along with you getting a warning if you don't tone it down. Tablets and PC's use more data because people use them more given it's a superior viewing experience. At home I use my pc almost exclusively vs. phone or tablet. My mobile data would go from less than 2 gigs a month to well over 30 if I tethered. VZW would clearly price that usage differently - and they do. You don't pay for tethering. It's an add-on service VZW sells. End of discussion.

if you were to use it for internet all the time through your PC then sure. I use my phone for Netflix on lunch i download music, I've even downloaded a couple of very large files using just my phone, not tethered. In January i Disney have access to a laptop and i used 11 gb of data just watching Netflix and YouTube and streaming a radio station from home. If your daft enough to use your phone to torrent skyrim or any other game then you should pay more.



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[LaurelRaven]

Because pricing is designed to optimize revenues according to capacity. You're not so much the issue as someone replacing their home ISP with tethering and racking up 10, 20 or 80 gigs a month. And it's been discussed ad nauseum - you are not paying for tethering no matter how you try to justify it.

I do agree with you that limited plans should be able to use their data as they see fit, although it still affects their pricing (maybe a person averages 2 gigs on their phone, but throw in tethering and now they are using 4gigs, so you would charge more for that as you are supplying more and the consumer is demanding more). But this is mostly about unlimited plans bogging down the network with massive amounts of tethering.

If this is only for unlimited plans, then what's at issue? They don't offer new unlimited plans, and any limited plan is going to get charged extra for using over their data that they are paying for. Also, a locked bootloader does nothing to stop people either bricking their phones or wireless tethering. Both can be done with simply rooting.

So, what is the real reason they're opposed to unlocked bootloaders?

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[kodiak799]

If this is only for unlimited plans, then what's at issue? They don't offer new unlimited plans, and any limited plan is going to get charged extra for using over their data that they are paying for. Also, a locked bootloader does nothing to stop people either bricking their phones or wireless tethering. Both can be done with simply rooting.

So, what is the real reason they're opposed to unlocked bootloaders?

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Good points. But I'd only suggest that any controls VZW has or would put in place are much more easily circumvented flashing an alternate rom, which is a real PITA (and in some cases, not possible) with a locked bootloader. If they can't manage potential issues with software (because people shun the updates for custom roms), then that leaves only hardware solutions which is undoubtedly more complex and costly, if it's even feasible at all.

 

[liftedplane]

Good points. But I'd only suggest that any controls VZW has or would put in place are much more easily circumvented flashing an alternate rom, which is a real PITA (and in some cases, not possible) with a locked bootloader. If they can't manage potential issues with software (because people shun the updates for custom roms), then that leaves only hardware solutions which is undoubtedly more complex and costly, if it's even feasible at all.

The bootloader prevents us from flashing a new kernel, not a new ROM. It's honestly a very tired argument and it's going to continue forever, even if vzw was to unlock everything and let us have at it we'd soon find something else to complain about.

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[kodiak799]

The bootloader prevents us from flashing a new kernel, not a new ROM.

But aren't those more or less just a theme than a real rom? Without being able to sign or mod the kernel, my understanding is there are parts of the rom/system/config or whatever you call it that can't be altered, so VZW would still be able to implement controls via software. I mean, my Rezound is unlocked and almost 4 months later because of S-On you still can't completely get rid of Sense, not yet anyway.

 

[liftedplane]

But aren't those more or less just a theme than a real rom? Without being able to sign or mod the kernel, my understanding is there are parts of the rom/system/config or whatever you call it that can't be altered, so VZW would still be able to implement controls via software. I mean, my Rezound is unlocked and almost 4 months later because of S-On you still can't completely get rid of Sense, not yet anyway.

More or less, but look at axiom ics4bionic vs eclipse they are completely different even though the kernel is the same.

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