New Droid RAZR Maxx!

[Ghostwheel]

Since you powered it off and started the charging again at 20%, you never actually set the low battery flag (which is set at 15%). This time, let him use it until it reaches 15%, or if he gives it back to you before it gets to 15%, continue using it yourself. It is important that the cycle goes:

1. Charge to 100% with power off,
2. Drain to 15% (not lower) through normal use,
3. Charge to 100% with power off,

Just in that order. The first charge to 100% sets the Full battery flag, the discharge to 15% sets the Low battery flag (hence the "Low battery" warning that pops up on the display), and the second charge to 100% confirms the range of charge from 15% to 100% to calibrate the meter properly. If you leave out any one of the three steps, you defeat the entire purpose for doing this calibration exercise as it will only add more confusing information to the meter and could result in further erroneous readings.

So, I got my new Maxx two days ago (w00t!) and never followed this procedure - never knew about it until I came back to the boards and started catching up on RAZR/Maxx threads. Is this solely for meter calibration, or is there something about the battery itself that requires the procedure for improved battery life/performance? And if it's just an internal app calibration (I also use Battery Left for that sort of info, btw), how can I "reset" the internal app and recalibrate?

 

[Chukee]

So, I got my new Maxx two days ago (w00t!) and never followed this procedure - never knew about it until I came back to the boards and started catching up on RAZR/Maxx threads. Is this solely for meter calibration, or is there something about the battery itself that requires the procedure for improved battery life/performance? And if it's just an internal app calibration (I also use Battery Left for that sort of info, btw), how can I "reset" the internal app and recalibrate?

No. It does not require this procedure that you see on this forum. But you should do a 100 percent charge when you first get the phone. Dont worry if you didnt. Like most people they dont do it either. Just try to follow what motorola says about charging your phone and the battery should improve and last longer. Check out the news app on your razr and subscribe to the tips and tricks from motorola. I try not to let my battery fall below 25 percent before i put a charge on it.

 

[bens42608]

No. It does not require this procedure that you see on this forum. But you should do a 100 percent charge when you first get the phone. Dont worry if you didnt. Like most people they dont do it either. Just try to follow what motorola says about charging your phone and the battery should improve and last longer. Check out the news app on your razr and subscribe to the tips and tricks from motorola. I try not to let my battery fall below 25 percent before i put a charge on it.

I tried telling this to someone the other day but they wanted to argue with me about how people can't be expected to just charge their phone using common sense because everyone has a different definition of common sense and he proceeds to tell me how the method has been proven and how its necessary and blah blah blah- im trying to encourage people to use their brain n just use.a little common sense. If he sees this then galaxyflatulence will probably famously grab his popcorn as that other dude( I forget who it was) proceeds to want to argue about how u can't tell people to use common sense- they need to use the "proven" method lol

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using DroidForums

 

[FoxKat]

No. It does not require this procedure that you see on this forum. But you should do a 100 percent charge when you first get the phone. Dont worry if you didnt. Like most people they dont do it either. Just try to follow what motorola says about charging your phone and the battery should improve and last longer. Check out the news app on your razr and subscribe to the tips and tricks from motorola. I try not to let my battery fall below 25 percent before i put a charge on it.

Sorry, but it seems that you disagree with me, BatteryUniversity.com (parent company CADEX - arguably the foremost authority on the proper care of rechargeable batteries and the company that makes those "charging" devices Caesar referenced above), and also Motorola itself. There is truth to what you say in that most people don't fully charge their phone before initial use. In fact most often leave the phone store with it powered on and begin using it right away, or if shipped will power it up immediately upon removing from the box. Also, you don't need to "worry if you didn't" (for the most part true). You also mention charging to 100%, but without mentioning that the initial charge should be done with the power off, which is also eluded to in the manual since it shows the charging happening BEFORE powering up (*see below*). It even shows 3H (3 hours) charge length out of the box with the power off (see the little clock at the bottom in the left pane).



You mention that you try to not let your battery fall below 25%. In normal practice that's a good routine to get into since you'll be using at most about 75% of the capacity of the battery before charging and it's been proven that shorter charge cycles are better for a prolonged usable battery life. However where I respectfully disagree with you is that as time goes on (we're talking months here), the battery's capacity REDUCES (not "improves" since it can never improve beyond it's capacity from the factory - not even during the first week as some claim), and as its ability to take a charge diminishes, the charge level that meter indicates will skew from the actual capacity such that when it says you have 25%, you may have substantially less. If you never let it fall to 15%, it can not adjust its reference points for "Low battery". This sets you up for possible problems down the road including boot-looping, failing to charge and more. Also, if you don't charge to 100% with the power off, you're not giving the meter an accurate reference point for the true capacity of the battery at that point in its lifespan either.

There have been countless threads detailing both sides of this issue, and as many on this forum know I've done extensive research and provided credible references to back these recommendations. I am not going to go too much deeper on this than to say that unless you follow the 3-step process either on purpose or accidentally on an infrequent basis (about every couple to few months) and first to charge the phone to 100% with the power off, then allow the phone to recognize and reach 15% or lower battery level followed by a 100% charge with power off again, you are likely to eventually suffer some of the same symptoms others here and elsewhere have, even after only a few short days or weeks of ownership.

Case in point, there was a user who had the phone only several days and yet the phone seemed to be "dying" in a couple hours. This was a Droid RAZR MAXX if I'm not mistaken (correction anyone?), and at one point during our attempts to correct his issues he indicated the phone had been at displaying 5% for 7 hours straight while playing music, which explains why he thought it was "dying" after only a couple hours when going from 100% to 20%. That's the most obvious indication of what I'll call "battery meter divergence". The explanation has been detailed here several times before but it has to do with how the battery voltage levels fall during discharge and at what point it becomes obvious to the meter that the battery has reached near complete discharge.

If you want the technical details I can supply the links.

 

[FoxKat]

I tried telling this to someone the other day but they wanted to argue with me about how people can't be expected to just charge their phone using common sense because everyone has a different definition of common sense and he proceeds to tell me how the method has been proven and how its necessary and blah blah blah- im trying to encourage people to use their brain n just use.a little common sense. If he sees this then galaxyflatulence will probably famously grab his popcorn as that other dude( I forget who it was) proceeds to want to argue about how u can't tell people to use common sense- they need to use the "proven" method lol

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using DroidForums

I believe the "dude" you are referring to is me (http://www.droidforums.net/forum/droid-razr-maxx/207644-new-droid-razr-maxx.html#post2100171).

I will say this, I don't go around gossiping to others about how bad or wrong the advice someone else gives another is, whether I am right or wrong. I approach every debate with respect for others, since in a debate there is always something to be learned by both sides.

As for common sense, manufacturers struggle with this very issue constantly. There is a reason for a safety on a gun for instance, and yet somehow people still shoot themselves and others accidentally every day.

I would like to see everyone using it as well. Unfortunately that's not the case and many times we see the ill effects of those epic failures. You are free to believe that everyone will do the right thing, and as long as at least you do the right thing, you're likely not to suffer for it. However I am trying to better the experience for all users and for the forum, and if everyone always did the right thing, or even remained within a margin of common sense, we wouldn't have nearly the number of "dead battery" threads here, and the Emergency Rooms in hospitals across the globe would be far less busy.

That's not to say that some of those folks didn't have real issues with the phones and/or batteries. And I am also not implying that lack of common sense is the reason for all the other failures. Seriously, are we even going down that road? I hope not.

MOST failures are as a result of not following directions, pushing the limits, being distracted, having other priorities, etc. Could they have been avoided, well in a word - yes, in most cases, but not necessarily by either "having" or "applying a greater amount" of common sense, but instead by simply paying attention.

There must be something to my words that ring true for others as indicated by the likes.

 

[FoxKat]

So, I got my new Maxx two days ago (w00t!) and never followed this procedure - never knew about it until I came back to the boards and started catching up on RAZR/Maxx threads. Is this solely for meter calibration, or is there something about the battery itself that requires the procedure for improved battery life/performance? And if it's just an internal app calibration (I also use Battery Left for that sort of info, btw), how can I "reset" the internal app and recalibrate?

You are asking some great questions. I'll address in order.

This method of "training" the meter is primarily for meter calibration in that without knowing the limits of the battery (both full and empty), the meter will not be able to give you an accurate representation of the State of Charge (SOC), or battery level at any given point.

This method of training does nothing to "improve" the battery, since the battery can only ever hold at most the amount of charge it was able to hold immediately after manufacture. These batteries (as with most), don't increase in capacity by exercising them like how a rubber band will stretch farther on the 5th pull than the first. The battery is a finite storage unit and will only diminish in capacity over time. The reasons are still debated but it's safe to say that you will virtually never have a battery that is 6 months old, and which will hold a larger charge than one that is one month old, assuming they both were the same chemistry and both were manufactured under the same conditions, EXCEPT when the one month old battery has been stressed by poor charging and discharging practices, temperature shock or some other misuse, where instead the 6 month old battery has been cared for properly.

The "training" method described was developed not by me, but by CADEX and detailed on their information website, BatteryUniversity.com, and was written specifically for Lithium Ion and Lithium Ion Polymer batteries (the kind in our RAZRs/MAXXs), and most notably to address Cellular Phone battery problems. Those who wish to follow those recommendations are likely to have far better battery run-times as the months go by than those who don't.

From their own historical information gathered from literally hundreds of thousands of batteries or more that their equipment analyzes yearly, CADEX indicates that approximately 90% of all rechargeable batteries that are returned as "dead", "defective", or "unable to take a charge", actually test out as being in good condition. This points to either the equipment, the user, the environmental conditions or a combination the three as cause for all those incorrectly diagnosed failures. In our case, the extent of diagnosis is usually the following;

Use it and it doesn't give you what you expect, so you call tech support who walks you through several "troubleshooting" steps, and once the "technician" can't determine a cause, they recommend a Factory reset. If that doesn't fix it, they replace it under warranty.

Does that sound to you like a true diagnosis? God forbid if your doctor diagnosed you that way - over the phone.

Take my advice if you will, or not, but if your phone starts "acting" like it won't last as long as expected, or won't take a full charge, or indicates large power loss over short periods of time, remember the statistical odds are 90% that the problem is NOT the battery.

 

[Chukee]

Sorry, but it seems that you disagree with me, BatteryUniversity.com (parent company CADEX - arguably the foremost authority on the proper care of rechargeable batteries and the company that makes those "charging" devices Caesar referenced above), and also Motorola itself. There is truth to what you say in that most people don't fully charge their phone before initial use. In fact most often leave the phone store with it powered on and begin using it right away, or if shipped will power it up immediately upon removing from the box. Also, you don't need to "worry if you didn't" (for the most part true). You also mention charging to 100%, but without mentioning that the initial charge should be done with the power off, which is also eluded to in the manual since it shows the charging happening BEFORE powering up (*see below*). It even shows 3H (3 hours) charge length out of the box with the power off (see the little clock at the bottom in the left pane).

View attachment 49908

You mention that you try to not let your battery fall below 25%. In normal practice that's a good routine to get into since you'll be using at most about 75% of the capacity of the battery before charging and it's been proven that shorter charge cycles are better for a prolonged usable battery life. However where I respectfully disagree with you is that as time goes on (we're talking months here), the battery's capacity REDUCES (not "improves" since it can never improve beyond it's capacity from the factory - not even during the first week as some claim), and as its ability to take a charge diminishes, the charge level that meter indicates will skew from the actual capacity such that when it says you have 25%, you may have substantially less. If you never let it fall to 15%, it can not adjust its reference points for "Low battery". This sets you up for possible problems down the road including boot-looping, failing to charge and more. Also, if you don't charge to 100% with the power off, you're not giving the meter an accurate reference point for the true capacity of the battery at that point in its lifespan either.

There have been countless threads detailing both sides of this issue, and as many on this forum know I've done extensive research and provided credible references to back these recommendations. I am not going to go too much deeper on this than to say that unless you follow the 3-step process either on purpose or accidentally on an infrequent basis (about every couple to few months) and first to charge the phone to 100% with the power off, then allow the phone to recognize and reach 15% or lower battery level followed by a 100% charge with power off again, you are likely to eventually suffer some of the same symptoms others here and elsewhere have, even after only a few short days or weeks of ownership.

Case in point, there was a user who had the phone only several days and yet the phone seemed to be "dying" in a couple hours. This was a Droid RAZR MAXX if I'm not mistaken (correction anyone?), and at one point during our attempts to correct his issues he indicated the phone had been at displaying 5% for 7 hours straight while playing music, which explains why he thought it was "dying" after only a couple hours when going from 100% to 20%. That's the most obvious indication of what I'll call "battery meter divergence". The explanation has been detailed here several times before but it has to do with how the battery voltage levels fall during discharge and at what point it becomes obvious to the meter that the battery has reached near complete discharge.

If you want the technical details I can supply the links.

We just going to have to agree to disagree. Being an amateur radio operator for almost 20yrs its a must that you learn how to take care of your batteries because they can run you in the hundreds of dollars to replace. The oldest battery that i got that is still working strong is one for my standard HT. C188A 2 meter radio... 5 plus years on that battery. The oldest smartphone battery i got is the samsung omnia and the palm treo. battery still going strong in both. In between i had the incredible and the thunderbolt. Both batteries are still good and working the way they should. Always did the same with them all.

Im not trying to prove anybody wrong or debate about batteries. Just giving my experience with the batteries that I have had and how i have maintained them and it has worked for me. I have never tried what you are advising so i cant tell you if you are right or wrong. I do know in my experience using a good and not a defective battery those steps are not necessary for me. And I stress me. And lets face it. Out of a million phones you bound to have some with defective batteries. And if thats the case then those steps may help me.

 

[thaDroidz]

I believe the "dude" you are referring to is me (http://www.droidforums.net/forum/droid-razr-maxx/207644-new-droid-razr-maxx.html#post2100171).

I will say this, I don't go around gossiping to others about how bad or wrong the advice someone else gives another is, whether I am right or wrong. I approach every debate with respect for others, since in a debate there is always something to be learned by both sides.

As for common sense, manufacturers struggle with this very issue constantly. There is a reason for a safety on a gun for instance, and yet somehow people still shoot themselves and others accidentally every day.

I would like to see everyone using it as well. Unfortunately that's not the case and many times we see the ill effects of those epic failures. You are free to believe that everyone will do the right thing, and as long as at least you do the right thing, you're likely not to suffer for it. However I am trying to better the experience for all users and for the forum, and if everyone always did the right thing, or even remained within a margin of common sense, we wouldn't have nearly the number of "dead battery" threads here, and the Emergency Rooms in hospitals across the globe would be far less busy.

That's not to say that some of those folks didn't have real issues with the phones and/or batteries. And I am also not implying that lack of common sense is the reason for all the other failures. Seriously, are we even going down that road? I hope not.

MOST failures are as a result of not following directions, pushing the limits, being distracted, having other priorities, etc. Could they have been avoided, well in a word - yes, in most cases, but not necessarily by either "having" or "applying a greater amount" of common sense, but instead by simply paying attention.

There must be something to my words that ring true for others as indicated by the likes.

"dudeFoxkat"
I believe he schooled "the most interesting guy"...

----posted MAXXED OUT WITH dessert----

 

[FoxKat]

We just going to have to agree to disagree. Being an amateur radio operator for almost 20yrs its a must that you learn how to take care of your batteries because they can run you in the hundreds of dollars to replace. The oldest battery that i got that is still working strong is one for my standard HT. C188A 2 meter radio... 5 plus years on that battery. The oldest smartphone battery i got is the samsung omnia and the palm treo. battery still going strong in both. In between i had the incredible and the thunderbolt. Both batteries are still good and working the way they should. Always did the same with them all.

Im not trying to prove anybody wrong or debate about batteries. Just giving my experience with the batteries that I have had and how i have maintained them and it has worked for me. I have never tried what you are advising so i cant tell you if you are right or wrong. I do know in my experience using a good and not a defective battery those steps are not necessary for me. And I stress me. And lets face it. Out of a million phones you bound to have some with defective batteries. And if thats the case then those steps may help me.

Actually were not far apart in our experience or beliefs. I have several rigs, including a Kenwood R & T-599D, a Lafayette HA-410, two Lafayette DynaCom-40 portables, several Motorola HT-750 portables, a Golden Eagle, a few other D-104s, counters, VFOs and lots more, and have been QSOing my fair share for over 30 years.

As for the method of charging described, it's not the battery that the charging method I describe is for, so much as it's for the metering system. For the most part the phone takes care of the battery under normal (dare I say typical) use.

As for the batteries you describe having cared for properly and still going strong after five years, I have no doubt. But these newer Lithium Ion Polymer Pouch batteries are a different chemistry and have very different charging and discharging profiles than Lead-Acid, Nickel-Cadmium, Nickel-Metal Hydride, and even the Lithium Ion batteries of only a couple years ago.

The biggest problems for these LIPO Pouch batteries are first that they exhibit very unusual, nearly flat voltage curves through a large portion of their discharge cycle, which makes it very difficult for the meter to give a useful indication of where in the charge/discharge cycle they are, except for during the top and bottom 20% portions where the curve is significantly more pronounced. So from 80% to 20%, most of the charge level indication is a calculated guess, albeit one that is based on the references it obtains through reaching a 100% charge level followed by a 15% discharge level. Without being "trained" with those reference points (which need to be adjusted as the battery ages and is charged and discharged repeatedly), the meter begins to provide false level readings, and they can be dramatically off-base.

Second, they also have significantly shorter life even if not used, to where they will only hold about 70% of original capacity simply due to age of even just three years or less depending on how they were stored and maintained (what charge level and temperature) while in storage. At 70% capacity, the phone manufacturer considers it to have reached the end of useful life. And to add to that, if the user either charges to 100% as a routine, and if they use it from full to empty as a routine, they can expect from 300-500 full cycles before the battery no longer holds more than 70% of rated capacity.

By contrast if the user typically charges more frequently and averages between 50% to 75% use of charge max before partially charging again, they can see from 1,500 to as much as 2,500 cycles out of the same battery. In other words, these batteries prefer NOT to be charged to 100%, NOT to be left at full charge for long periods of time, amd NOT to be charged for long charge cycles, but instead to be charged more frequently and for shorter charge periods such as during the commute to and from school/work, while at the computer, at the coffee shop, etc., sort of like adding $20 or $30 of gas to your car's tank every so often rather than running it dry and then filling it to the gas cap.

Next, the rate of charge influences it's life - charge at a faster rate and it lasts less cycles. Also, when you rapid charge them, they charge to 80% more quickly, but then take longer to reach 100%, making rapid charging only effective if you need a quick boost to 80% or less.

Finally, they don't like to be kept at a full charge for long as they suffer stress which reduces their lifespan, they can not be discharged below about 2.7 - 2.5 volts or they shut down permanently, and they can not withstand constant charging - even if only a trickle without risking catastrophic failure. In other words, what may be 100% correct for certain earlier battery types and may be virtually harmless to those older chemistries, is not only wrong for LIPO Pouch batteries, but could result in bodily harm and more.

There are lots of other peculiarities with these new high density power packs, but those are the most obvious and most relevant to this discussion and to the myriad of problems owners of phones with these batteries most often suffer.

I'm also not here to prove anyBODY wrong, but to point out the very different batteries in these phones and help everyone to know that old rules don't apply here.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk with speech to text translation. Please excuse any minor grammatical/punctuation/spelling errors.

 

[Ghostwheel]

You are asking some great questions. I'll address in order.

This method of "training" the meter is primarily for meter calibration in that without knowing the limits of the battery (both full and empty), the meter will not be able to give you an accurate representation of the State of Charge (SOC), or battery level at any given point.

This method of training does nothing to "improve" the battery, since the battery can only ever hold at most the amount of charge it was able to hold immediately after manufacture. These batteries (as with most), don't increase in capacity by exercising them like how a rubber band will stretch farther on the 5th pull than the first. The battery is a finite storage unit and will only diminish in capacity over time. The reasons are still debated but it's safe to say that you will virtually never have a battery that is 6 months old, and which will hold a larger charge than one that is one month old, assuming they both were the same chemistry and both were manufactured under the same conditions, EXCEPT when the one month old battery has been stressed by poor charging and discharging practices, temperature shock or some other misuse, where instead the 6 month old battery has been cared for properly.

The "training" method described was developed not by me, but by CADEX and detailed on their information website, BatteryUniversity.com, and was written specifically for Lithium Ion and Lithium Ion Polymer batteries (the kind in our RAZRs/MAXXs), and most notably to address Cellular Phone battery problems. Those who wish to follow those recommendations are likely to have far better battery run-times as the months go by than those who don't.

From their own historical information gathered from literally hundreds of thousands of batteries or more that their equipment analyzes yearly, CADEX indicates that approximately 90% of all rechargeable batteries that are returned as "dead", "defective", or "unable to take a charge", actually test out as being in good condition. This points to either the equipment, the user, the environmental conditions or a combination the three as cause for all those incorrectly diagnosed failures. In our case, the extent of diagnosis is usually the following;

Use it and it doesn't give you what you expect, so you call tech support who walks you through several "troubleshooting" steps, and once the "technician" can't determine a cause, they recommend a Factory reset. If that doesn't fix it, they replace it under warranty.

Does that sound to you like a true diagnosis? God forbid if your doctor diagnosed you that way - over the phone.

Take my advice if you will, or not, but if your phone starts "acting" like it won't last as long as expected, or won't take a full charge, or indicates large power loss over short periods of time, remember the statistical odds are 90% that the problem is NOT the battery.

Ok, I see that using the word "improved" was my bad. What I really meant was "less degraded." I understand that the graph of maximum battery charge vs. battery age will be a downward curve; I was asking whether the procedure you describe actually improves that curve, i.e. physically does something for the battery chemistry itself which keeps the max charge from degrading as quickly as the battery ages.

I also understand the part about the importance of having the internal battery meter properly calibrated, but like I said, I didn't realize it was necessary and that there was a procedure for it until after I'd left the Verizon store with the phone turned on and functioning on the out-of-box 60% charge. So, now that the internal meter is presumed to be improperly calibrated, how can I reset it and "start from scratch" to begin a good calibration with your described method? Is one even needed, or does simply running it down to 15% (which, since it's not properly calibrated, might not really be 15%), powering off and charging to 100% enough to do it?

 

[Trash Can]

So, now that the internal meter is presumed to be improperly calibrated, how can I reset it and "start from scratch" to begin a good calibration with your described method? Is one even needed, or does simply running it down to 15% (which, since it's not properly calibrated, might not really be 15%), powering off and charging to 100% enough to do it?

The full process starting from scratch is:

1. Power OFF and charge to 100%.
2. Use normally until you get the "low battery" warning at 15%
3. Power OFF and recharge to 100%

Repeat this process every month or two.

 

[94lt1]

the full process starting from scratch is:

1. Power off and charge to 100%.
2. Use normally until you get the "low battery" warning at 15%
3. Power off and recharge to 100%

repeat this process every month or two.

+500

droid razr maxxamized!!!

 

[FoxKat]

Ok, I see that using the word "improved" was my bad. What I really meant was "less degraded." I understand that the graph of maximum battery charge vs. battery age will be a downward curve; I was asking whether the procedure you describe actually improves that curve, i.e. physically does something for the battery chemistry itself which keeps the max charge from degrading as quickly as the battery ages.

I also understand the part about the importance of having the internal battery meter properly calibrated, but like I said, I didn't realize it was necessary and that there was a procedure for it until after I'd left the Verizon store with the phone turned on and functioning on the out-of-box 60% charge. So, now that the internal meter is presumed to be improperly calibrated, how can I reset it and "start from scratch" to begin a good calibration with your described method? Is one even needed, or does simply running it down to 15% (which, since it's not properly calibrated, might not really be 15%), powering off and charging to 100% enough to do it?

The full process starting from scratch is:

1. Power OFF and charge to 100%.
2. Use normally until you get the "low battery" warning at 15%
3. Power OFF and recharge to 100%

Repeat this process every month or two.

What he ^ said! And as for what you meant, well no it won't on its own either improve or reduce the effect of degradation, but if the information the meter is supplying about the State of Charge (SOC) is inaccurate and you are charging based on that errant information, it can have the effect of you charging when not needed (such as it showing 40% when it's actually 80%), or not charging when you should (showing 40% when it's actually 5%), and in either instance - charging to 100% more frequently and stressing the battery, or allowing it to deep discharge and risking a non-responsive battery CAN have detrimental short-term and lasting impacts.

So to be on the safe side, a properly calibrated meter will give you the best possible indication of the true SOC and your "common sense" (thank you bens42608) will tell you when you need to charge based on your specific usage profile and charge station availability.

Good luck! :biggrin:

 

[Ghostwheel]

charging to 100% more frequently and stressing the battery ... CAN have detrimental short-term and lasting impacts.

Cool, thanks for the clarifications.

But now I'm curious about the above excerpt from your response. With my D1, which was my main phone for almost 2 1/2 years, I was generally a "fanatic charger" - as soon as my battery hit 80%, I'd be grabbing my charger and plugging it in. I'd get anxious if it ever went below 60%. Also, I'd leave it plugged in all night while it was on my nightstand acting as an alarm clock. And with all this, my battery life (at least in my most-used 100% to 60% range) stayed basically constant, at least until the final few months before I upgraded to the Maxx. I realize not all batteries are created equal, not only from model to model, but even manufacturing variation in the same model. Having said all that, am I unstanding correctly that my kind of constant charging tends to be "bad" for MotoDroid-type batteries on average, even though my specific battery may not have experienced it?

 

[FoxKat]

Cool, thanks for the clarifications.

But now I'm curious about the above excerpt from your response. With my D1, which was my main phone for almost 2 1/2 years, I was generally a "fanatic charger" - as soon as my battery hit 80%, I'd be grabbing my charger and plugging it in. I'd get anxious if it ever went below 60%. Also, I'd leave it plugged in all night while it was on my nightstand acting as an alarm clock. And with all this, my battery life (at least in my most-used 100% to 60% range) stayed basically constant, at least until the final few months before I upgraded to the Maxx. I realize not all batteries are created equal, not only from model to model, but even manufacturing variation in the same model. Having said all that, am I unstanding correctly that my kind of constant charging tends to be "bad" for MotoDroid-type batteries on average, even though my specific battery may not have experienced it?

Great question and I can see how what I said might lead you to believe what you've stated in your last sentence. Here's the rub. If you charge more frequently and use less of the total capacity between charges (i.e. charge to 90, use to 50, charge to 80, use to 30, charge to 80, use to 20, etc.), you will EXTEND the usable lifespan of the battery. However if you charge to the max (100%) every time, and only use similar amounts, you will likely actually either reduce the lifespan or see no benefit in extending the life (i.e. the gains of short cycling are cancelled out by the losses of high voltage stressing).

Here's a chart to give you some reference. In the chart, you'll see how 100% charges result in 500 cycles, where 50% charges result in 1,500 partial cycles which can give you 150% longer life - or 750 complete cycles versus 500 (based on 100% cycles), and at 25% charges results in 2,500 partial cycles, or 625 complete cycles. So this means charging and using around 50% of the full capacity rather than 100% can result in the battery lasting another year longer. It also means of course that you'll be hitting the charger twice as often during the same number of hours use.

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In the case of battery meter readings while charging, I've found another really good graphic and explanation to represent why charging with power off is so important. See below. It explains that when the phone is on, the parasitic load of the phone while on confuses the charging circuit and can result in incorrect charging rate and time. This can in turn result in additional stress on the battery if the charging is at full charge current levels while the battery is in the top range of the charging process where it needs to actually be charged at a reduced rate in order to fully saturate the battery without raising temperature or causing overcharging.

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Figure 3: BCI*-based SoC reading. A parasitic load distorts voltage-based SoC readings. Voltage recovery takes 4–8 hours.​	Figure 4: SoC based on impedance spectroscopy. A parasitic load does not affect the SoC reading.​

* BCI (Battery Council International) measures state-of-charge by open circuit voltage. The voltage methods works well if the battery has no load and has rested after charge or discharge.

Courtesy of Cadex

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Finally, here's a graphic that shows clearly the risks of either "bump charging" or overcharging over time. Can you squeeze more power into the battery than intended, well yes, but you'll pay a heavy price. In this graphic, they show a battery being charged to just about 10% more (Green) than rated power (Black) each time (or 1,050 mAh versus 950 mAh), and you see that the battery loses lifespan VERY RAPIDLY, breaking through the number of cycles for the rated capacity in about 90 charges and from there it's a virtual free-fall to 50% of rated capacity before reaching 200 charges.

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I have done hundreds of hours of research, not just on BatteryUniversity.com, but on numerous other resources, but have come back to BatteryUniveristy.com as the most concise, understandable, and credible information which confirms things read elsewhere. So as I've said before, I am not the authority, just a messenger. I bring the information and try to put it into everyday language so everyone can benefit. If anyone chooses to discredit or dispute what I've said, they're not discrediting me, they're doing so to the PHD toting scientists and engineers who wrote this stuff. I don't know about you, but I don't often argue with a doctor.

YRMV, CSAH...