Moto explains why they locked the bootloader

[sin vicious]

Yep, I haven't heard of anyone successfully bricking a droid.

But "bricking" is a BUILT IN FEATURE of the X. A software command will invoke it. And no one but verizon can unbrick it. Yes it can be undone- not by you or me.

That's the whole point of EFUSE, as I understand it. A bad OTA update could brick the phone so it can't be recovered until it visits Verizon.

You don't think this is an incredible vulnerability? Heck, if we have faith that someone can over come the encryption, and the hardware locks- I can't imagine it wouldn't be 1000 times easier to blow the EFUSE by some exploit.

Dangerous stuff. Don't get me wrong, I'm still getting an X. I just don't know if this ever happens that there will BE a motorola in the future. That's all I'm saying. And it could even happen to someone who would never, ever think of doing anything not stock.

Even though I'll have a Droid X, I actually wish someone would make a virus that ends up bricking all Droid Xs. It'd be a PR disaster for Motorola, and they'd fall more in line with future devices. They're starting to be like the "Apple" of Verizon. I don't care how great your vision for phones is, I don't want it force-fed to me, Motorola. *glare*

Definitely the last Motorola device I'll be buying.

Very mature.. geesh to meet your own unreasonable demands you would want innocent droiders to brick their phones?

 

[h_10]

There are less than 100k members on this forum. What % of those root and want to load custom ROMs? Perhaps 10%, maybe 25% at most. While I realize this isn't the only forum of it's kind, you can see that the hacking community is a small % of users.

I haven't seen any recent Droid sales numbers, but it took 72 days for Motorola to sell 1,000,000 units when it first came out. I'm sure sales have slowed since then. So perhaps 1,500,000 units have been sold in total.

Lets say that 88,000 users represents all Droid users on all forums combined. After all there are 88,000 members of this forum, and the represent a lot more phones than just the Droid.

Lets say 25% of all those members root their Droid - equals 22,000 people. That would account for 1.5% of all Droid users. This for a phone that is easily hacked so more users are willing to try to root.

I realize these numbers are not scientific or even that accuate at all. But my point in all of this is to show that rooting isn't a large % of users. I have no doubt that Motorola makes/saves more money by encrypting their systems than the lost sales (perhaps 1-2%) that they would gain by actually not encypting their systems.

The bottom line is that all the hackers could rise up and boycott Motorola and it won't change Motorola's stance. The money equation just doesn't work in our favor.

1. i think your #s for rooted droids is way too low. i would estimate 10% of all droids are rooted, and that's being conservative.
2. let's assume that your numbers are correct. the droids cost about $500. consumers pay $200 and vzw makes up the rest. either way, motorola will get their $500/unit. 22,000 rooters will not be buying a droid X. that's $11M in gross revenue that they are losing. (22,000x$500=$11,000,000). you don't think motorola cares about $11M in gross revenue?
3. let's assume my estimates are correct and that 10% are rooted. that equals $75M gross revenue.
4. this is hypothetical and assumes that all droid1 root users will upgrade to droid x, but you can actually get a sense of the scale that moto is gambling with.
5. i'm assuming that moto did the financial analysis behind their droid1 success vis-a-vis rooting and factored that into their decision on future models and locking. if not, they are in for a rude awakening.

 

[Happystranger]

After reading all this I still feel confident in getting the X. When I got the Droid on launch day, I didn't even know about rooting it and oc'ing it. Sure it has its advantages, but personally, the only reason I rooted in the first place was because the 2.1 update was taking so long. I don't really use my Droid in anyway that would require an overclock. I've tried different roms and honestly they were mostly the same, except for the fact that some had more bugs than others. My point? The ability to root is not making or breaking my decision for the X. I'm almost certain other future phones will be the same.

 

[hendrix]

Moto does realize that the droid is the most popular android on the market? and the fact that the community behind it is the strongest and one of the most developed I do not understand why they would do this to all there phones most ppl who don't know how to root do not because they don't understand it I may be making a switch to htc because of this reason next time my contract is up now I'm fustrated haha

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Do you honestly think that the droid is the most popular android phone on the market because you can root it? Nope, it is because it was the first android device on verizon.

 

[Darkseider]

Yep, I haven't heard of anyone successfully bricking a droid.

But "bricking" is a BUILT IN FEATURE of the X. A software command will invoke it. And no one but verizon can unbrick it. Yes it can be undone- not by you or me.

That's the whole point of EFUSE, as I understand it. A bad OTA update could brick the phone so it can't be recovered until it visits Verizon.

You don't think this is an incredible vulnerability? Heck, if we have faith that someone can over come the encryption, and the hardware locks- I can't imagine it wouldn't be 1000 times easier to blow the EFUSE by some exploit.

Dangerous stuff. Don't get me wrong, I'm still getting an X. I just don't know if this ever happens that there will BE a motorola in the future. That's all I'm saying. And it could even happen to someone who would never, ever think of doing anything not stock.

Even though I'll have a Droid X, I actually wish someone would make a virus that ends up bricking all Droid Xs. It'd be a PR disaster for Motorola, and they'd fall more in line with future devices. They're starting to be like the "Apple" of Verizon. I don't care how great your vision for phones is, I don't want it force-fed to me, Motorola. *glare*

Definitely the last Motorola device I'll be buying.

Very mature.. geesh to meet your own unreasonable demands you would want innocent droiders to brick their phones?

Nothing unreasonable about it. With Motorola going down this path you do not own your phone but merely pay for the right to use it as they deem fit. Kinda like buying a car and being told you can ONLY get gas from BP and no one else. Even if the nearest BP is 100 miles away.

 

[Googleaddict]

I'm very disappointed with motorola right now. I never i thought i would say this again, but my Droid might be my last Motorola phone, unless something comes out at the end of the year that blows everything else out of the water.

 

[Mule65]

1. i think your #s for rooted droids is way too low. i would estimate 10% of all droids are rooted, and that's being conservative.

I'd bet the farm on the under.

 

[sin vicious]

There are less than 100k members on this forum. What % of those root and want to load custom ROMs? Perhaps 10%, maybe 25% at most. While I realize this isn't the only forum of it's kind, you can see that the hacking community is a small % of users.

I haven't seen any recent Droid sales numbers, but it took 72 days for Motorola to sell 1,000,000 units when it first came out. I'm sure sales have slowed since then. So perhaps 1,500,000 units have been sold in total.

Lets say that 88,000 users represents all Droid users on all forums combined. After all there are 88,000 members of this forum, and the represent a lot more phones than just the Droid.

Lets say 25% of all those members root their Droid - equals 22,000 people. That would account for 1.5% of all Droid users. This for a phone that is easily hacked so more users are willing to try to root.

I realize these numbers are not scientific or even that accuate at all. But my point in all of this is to show that rooting isn't a large % of users. I have no doubt that Motorola makes/saves more money by encrypting their systems than the lost sales (perhaps 1-2%) that they would gain by actually not encypting their systems.

The bottom line is that all the hackers could rise up and boycott Motorola and it won't change Motorola's stance. The money equation just doesn't work in our favor.

1. i think your #s for rooted droids is way too low. i would estimate 10% of all droids are rooted, and that's being conservative.
2. let's assume that your numbers are correct. the droids cost about $500. consumers pay $200 and vzw makes up the rest. either way, motorola will get their $500/unit. 22,000 rooters will not be buying a droid X. that's $11M in gross revenue that they are losing. (22,000x$500=$11,000,000). you don't think motorola cares about $11M in gross revenue?
3. let's assume my estimates are correct and that 10% are rooted. that equals $75M gross revenue.
4. this is hypothetical and assumes that all droid1 root users will upgrade to droid x, but you can actually get a sense of the scale that moto is gambling with.
5. i'm assuming that moto did the financial analysis behind their droid1 success vis-a-vis rooting and factored that into their decision on future models and locking. if not, they are in for a rude awakening.

Interesting.. but it think you have to look at other factors like:

1. How much support is used because of bricking (employment costs)
2. How much revenue is lost in potential realestate space (trial sofware)
3. Loss of IP going into other phones that were not properly liscensed

I can almost guarantee you that it is more then 11 million dollars

 

[sphen22]

I personally don't think this is comparable to apple products. Apple has a single phone to choose from. Andriod has several different hardware and software variants. Choose the one that is best for you.

 

[abaez]

1. i think your #s for rooted droids is way too low. i would estimate 10% of all droids are rooted, and that's being conservative.
2. let's assume that your numbers are correct. the droids cost about $500. consumers pay $200 and vzw makes up the rest. either way, motorola will get their $500/unit. 22,000 rooters will not be buying a droid X. that's $11M in gross revenue that they are losing. (22,000x$500=$11,000,000). you don't think motorola cares about $11M in gross revenue?
3. let's assume my estimates are correct and that 10% are rooted. that equals $75M gross revenue.
4. this is hypothetical and assumes that all droid1 root users will upgrade to droid x, but you can actually get a sense of the scale that moto is gambling with.
5. i'm assuming that moto did the financial analysis behind their droid1 success vis-a-vis rooting and factored that into their decision on future models and locking. if not, they are in for a rude awakening.

This is the most ridiculous post ever.

First, your made up % of rooted users is pure conjecture and probably not even ground in reality. Where'd you get that number? From thin air?

Second, Motorola does not get $500 per phone, not even close. They are the second step, maybe third, in the manufacturing process and would not even get close to retail price. According to iSuppli, the hardware in the droid comes out to 187.75. This does NOT include any R&D, marketing or anything else Motorola does. Then when Best buy gets (or whomever), they probably buy them for $300 or $350 ($100 profit at best for Motorola), and so on and so forth.

Third, you are not accounting for the warranty and replacement costs that someone who bricks their phone or messes something up that Motorola has to deal with if they make it easily rootable.

So no, it's not even close to what you are saying. And while I don't like it, I don't blame Motorola for just eliminating the user who tinkers factor out of their warranty issues.

 

[Darkseider]

I personally don't think this is comparable to apple products. Apple has a single phone to choose from. Andriod has several different hardware and software variants. Choose the one that is best for you.

Correct as a whole no it isn't comparable to Apple. When comparing ONLY Motorola to Apple it is.

 

[Darkseider]

1. i think your #s for rooted droids is way too low. i would estimate 10% of all droids are rooted, and that's being conservative.
2. let's assume that your numbers are correct. the droids cost about $500. consumers pay $200 and vzw makes up the rest. either way, motorola will get their $500/unit. 22,000 rooters will not be buying a droid X. that's $11M in gross revenue that they are losing. (22,000x$500=$11,000,000). you don't think motorola cares about $11M in gross revenue?
3. let's assume my estimates are correct and that 10% are rooted. that equals $75M gross revenue.
4. this is hypothetical and assumes that all droid1 root users will upgrade to droid x, but you can actually get a sense of the scale that moto is gambling with.
5. i'm assuming that moto did the financial analysis behind their droid1 success vis-a-vis rooting and factored that into their decision on future models and locking. if not, they are in for a rude awakening.

This is the most ridiculous post ever.

First, your made up % of rooted users is pure conjecture and probably not even ground in reality. Where'd you get that number? From thin air?

Second, Motorola does not get $500 per phone, not even close. They are the second step, maybe third, in the manufacturing process and would not even get close to retail price. According to iSuppli, the hardware in the droid comes out to 187.75. This does NOT include any R&D, marketing or anything else Motorola does. Then when Best buy gets (or whomever), they probably buy them for $300 or $350 ($100 profit at best for Motorola), and so on and so forth.

Third, you are not accounting for the warranty and replacement costs that someone who bricks their phone or messes something up that Motorola has to deal with if they make it easily rootable.

So no, it's not even close to what you are saying. And while I don't like it, I don't blame Motorola for just eliminating the user who tinkers factor out of their warranty issues.

Then instead of making it hard or impossible to root and putting an encrypted bootloader on it just make it 100% open, period, end of story. This way if a user so chooses to root he/she can without fear of bricking a device while trying to root it or load a custom ROM. Make it as easily recoverable as the Droid if something go loopy using the .SBF. End of problem. A minority of people will take advantage of the flexibility compared to those that don't but in either case both camps are happy and will continue to support Motorola. In the current scenario they have alienated quite a few people in the process and may just continue to further alienate the "I don't cares" as well if they become even more restrictive which isn't out of the question either.

 

[Mule65]

Nothing unreasonable about it. With Motorola going down this path you do not own your phone but merely pay for the right to use it as they deem fit. Kinda like buying a car and being told you can ONLY get gas from BP and no one else. Even if the nearest BP is 100 miles away.

You also need roads, a drivers license and to abide by laws.

 

[sin vicious]

Nothing unreasonable about it. With Motorola going down this path you do not own your phone but merely pay for the right to use it as they deem fit. Kinda like buying a car and being told you can ONLY get gas from BP and no one else. Even if the nearest BP is 100 miles away.

You also need roads, a drivers license and to abide by laws.

Im so happy you used cars as an example. Because, there is a speed cap right? Isnt it referred to as a regulator? But you do still own the car, right? Listen buddy, no matter how spin this... your wrong. Plus, wishing ill will on other droid users is just plain immature and just shows how a portion of a community can go on a "entitlement" binge. Not cool! :icon_eek:

 

[*22899]

I see no reason to worry someone will crack it! Lock it down so what. There is no wrath worse than a then a smartphone geek with lots of time on his hands.

Its like a game they do their best to stop it, we show them where their mistakes are.