LG charger on a razr

[ultra09hd]

Its an example dude...concept is the same...

Believe what you want.

 

[FoxKat]

This is an interesting question. Unless you are referring to something in the article I'm not seeing, I'm not so sure the interpretation is a broad as you read it ("this only applies if the charger is non cell phone type charger") . As far as I can see, what the relevant part of the article says is:

"Tie-In Sales" Provisions

Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.

In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.
​

While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product. The following is an example of a permissible provision that excludes coverage of such things.

While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty.

​

Although tie-in sales provisions generally are not allowed, you can include such a provision in your warranty if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the FTC that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service. If you believe that this is the case, you should contact the warranty staff of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection for information on how to apply for a waiver of the tie-in sales prohibition.


My read of this? Motorola is not requiring you to buy anything as they supply a cable and charger adapter with the purchase. Whether or not using another cable or charger would void the warranty, it would seem that would depend on if the phone would work properly with the cable and charger you selected. If it doesn't, it may not possess the required specifications and in that case it would seem that it could void the warranty. Which is the warning FoxKat was highlighting when he said "All above responses are for the most part correct, however there can be undesirable effects due to using non-approved third party chargers" and "If the battery or phone should fail and it can be determined that the failure was as a result of using a non-approved charger, Motorola and Verizon reserve the right to refuse coverage .."

​

This seems accurate since the article states you can include tie-in provisions "if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the FTC that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service." Since the Razr's manual says use of other chargers "may impact your mobile device’s performance. In some circumstances, third party accessories can be dangerous and may void your mobile device’s warranty." it seems reasonable to assume they have demonstrated this to the FTC on some level.

It's true Motorola & Verizon can't require you to buy or use their cables or chargers, but it's also fair warning to say that all chargers may not be equal, be aware of signs of trouble and to say you are best off to use the supplied cable and charger. If you don't, and the problem can be shown to come from using one that has and improper or incorrect configuration, you may void your warranty.

Having said all that, I - like most the posters here - have used a variety of microUSB cables without issues. But with the plug in the wall charger, I'm always leery since I don't know the specs. I don't know if there's special circuitry in the chargers or not. Maybe someone smarter than me can answer that....uh, FoxKat???

Well SallyC, I don't think I could have said it better myself OR backed it up with credible information better than you did! Damn, you're good!!

Anyway, what she ^ said! LOL! Truth be known, when a company states their warranty policy, and then you purchase and use their product which is sold under that policy, and when the policy is written in the user manual for the phone, and in some cases even stamped on the product itself, this constitutes "implied acceptance by action" of the terms and conditions under which you will use and be protected.

From Wikipedia Warranty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :

In retail business, a warranty (or "extended warranty") commonly refers to a guarantee of the reliability of a product under conditions of ordinary use. It is called "extended" warranty because it covers defects that could arise some time after the date of sale. Should the product malfunction within a stipulated amount of time after the purchase, the manufacturer or distributor is typically required to provide the customer with a replacement, repair, or refund. Such warranties usually do not cover "acts of God", owner abuse, malicious destruction, commercial use, or anything, for that matter, outside of a mechanical failure incurred with normal personal usage.​

Given that you chose to use the product under the terms and conditions of the warranty (conditions being the obvious and decisive word here), if you decide to abuse the product by charging with an inferior device, and that device causes a failure of the warrantied appliance, the manufacturer can not be held responsible for repair of the appliance since you obviously abused the device and were using it in a manner outside the manufacturer's definition of "normal personal usage". Since it clearly states in the user's guide (Pages 56 & 57):

"Important: Motorola recommends you always use Motorola-branded batteries and chargers for quality assurance and safeguards. Motorola’s warranty does not cover damage to the mobile device caused by non-Motorola batteries and/or chargers. To help youidentify authentic Motorola batteries from non-original or counterfeit batteries (that may not have adequate safety protection), Motorola provides holograms on its batteries. You should confirm that any battery you purchase has a “Motorola Original” hologram. If you see a message on your display such as Invalid Battery or Unable to Charge, take the following steps:• Remove the battery and inspect it to confirm that it has a “Motorola Original” hologram;• If there is no hologram, the battery is not a Motorola battery;• If there is a hologram, replace the battery and try charging it again;• If the message remains, contact a Motorola authorized service center.

Warning: Use of a non-Motorola battery or charger may present a risk of fire, explosion,leakage, or other hazard


Third Party Accessories: Use of third party accessories, including but not limited to batteries, chargers, headsets,covers, cases, screen protectors and memory cards, may impact your mobile device’sperformance. In some circumstances, third party accessories can be dangerous and may voidyour mobile device’s warranty. For a list of Motorola accessories, visitwww.motorola.com/products.
.​

And here (Page 65);

Exclusions (Products and Accessories)This warranty does not apply to (a) Consumable parts, such as batteries or protective coatings designed to diminish overtime unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship. As with allbatteries, the maximum capacity of the battery will decrease with time and use; this is not adefect. Only defective batteries and batteries that leak are covered by this warranty.(b) Cosmetic damage, including but not limited to scratches, dents, cracks or othercosmetic damage.(c) Damage caused by use with non-Motorola products. Defects or damage that result from the use of non-Motorola branded or certified Products, accessories or other peripheralequipment, including without limitation housings, parts, or software, are excluded fromcoverage.(d) Damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, liquid contact, fire, earthquake orother external causes; including but not limited to: (i) improper usage or operation (e.g.operating the Product outside their permitted or intended uses as defined by Motorola,including but not limited to as set forth by Motorola in the Products' User Manual, Quick StartGuide, Online Tutorials, and other documentation), improper storage (e.g. subjecting theProduct to extreme temperatures), abuse or neglect (e.g. broken/bent/missingclips/fasteners/connectors); impact damage (e.g. dropping the Product) (ii) contact withliquids, water, rain, extreme humidity, heavy perspiration or other moisture; sand, food, dirt orsimilar substances (except for Products sold as resistant to such substances, but only to theextent the damage was not caused by incorrectly securing the phone's protective elements orsubjecting the Product to conditions beyond its stated specifications or limits); (iii) use of theProducts for commercial rental purposes; or (iv) external causes or acts which are not thefault of Motorola, including but not limited to flood, fire, earthquake, tornado or other acts ofGod, are excluded from coverage.(e) Unauthorized Service or Modification. Defects or damage resulting from service,testing, adjustment, installation, maintenance, alteration, or modification in any way,including but not limited to tampering with or altering the software, by someone other thanMotorola, or its authorized service centers, are excluded from coverage. Notwithstanding theforegoing, any Product which has had its bootloader unlocked, or whose operating systemhas been altered, including any failed attempts to unlock the bootloader or alter suchoperating system, is not covered by this warranty, regardless of whether such modificationsare authorized, approved, or otherwise sanctioned by Motorola.(f) A product or part that has been modified in any manner without the writtenpermission of Motorola. Products that have been altered in any manner so as to preventMotorola from determining whether such Products are covered under the terms of thisLimited Warranty are excluded from coverage. The forgoing shall include but not be limited to(i) serial numbers, date tags or other manufacturer coding that has been removed, altered orobliterated; (ii) mismatched or duplicated serial numbers; or (iii) broken seals or otherevidence of tampering. Do not open the Product or attempt to repair the Product yourself;such conduct may cause damage that is not covered by this warranty.(g) Normal wear and tear or otherwise due to the normal aging of the Product.(h) Defects, damages, or the failure of the Product due to any communicationservice or network you subscribe to or use with the Products.(i) All software, including operating system software, third-party software,applications, and all other software of any kind. Software distributed by Motorola isprovided “AS-IS” and “AS AVAILABLE,” “WITH ALL FAULTS” and without a warranty of anykind. The Limited Warranty does not apply to any non-Motorola product or any software,even if packaged or sold with the Motorola hardware, unless otherwise required byapplicable local law.(j) Products that have been refurbished, reconditioned, or remanufactured, except forProducts repaired or replaced pursuant to the terms of this Limited Warranty.If damage is outside the scope of warranty coverage, repair services may be available, but allcosts associated with such out of warranty repair will be your responsibility.
​

These warnings fall under the realm of "Abuse and Misuse" and "Unauthorized Service or Modification", and as such are legitemate reasons for not providing coverage.

This information should be considered as the starting point for your reasoning behind making any decisions to do anything other than what the appliance was intended to do, and with anything other than what the manufacturer recommends. Don't blame me if you void your warranty, and don't put your faith in the words of others who wish to dispute this written and legal information as they will also not be responsible if you void your warranty either.

 

[ultra09hd]

Key phrase in all that...under important ...motorola RECOMMENDS only use their products...

Does not state 'require ' now this can go both ways so... under warranty they cannot refuse if it was not altered, damaged before using, IF they require , yes. No warranty. Now the stores and business will never tell you this so most will not pursue further action.

Now my personal experience with numerous co's on warranty claims is if they refuse...ask for management, if they still refuse, ask for corporate management, still, start talking about contacting the BBB...

 

[FoxKat]

Key phrase in all that...under important ...motorola RECOMMENDS only use their products...

Does not state 'require ' now this can go both ways so... under warranty they cannot refuse if it was not altered, damaged before using, IF they require , yes. No warranty. Now the stores and business will never tell you this so most will not pursue further action.

Now my personal experience with numerous co's on warranty claims is if they refuse...ask for management, if they still refuse, ask for corporate management, still, start talking about contacting the BBB...

Honestly I am not saying that there isn't any chance that someone could let's say "negotiate" their way around this, but for most people when they are told "no, there's no coverage", they're apt to accept that information and are either unlikely or unwilling or unable to fight. Truth is, NOTHING except death and taxes is a definite, and even taxes can be "negotiated" with clever accounting.

What I am saying is that nobody should take the information in their warranty and toss it aside, calling it all that hot water. They may be throwing out the baby with that "hot water". Like anything that you purchase, there is a certain level of personal responsibility for caring of that purchase, and nobody should assume that if they are irresponsible or deliberately abusive of it, that the manufacturer will simply repair or replace at no expense to them. To take that position will almost assuredly and ultimately lead to great disappointment.

There are a LOT of people who come onto these forums looking for answers, and they often consider us as quasi-experts, and hold us rather high - relatively speaking. It would be a dis-service to them, no - a downright irresponsible action on our part not to protect them from fringe information or recommendations of this type without at least pointing out to them the potential pitfalls. I, for one am not willing to cause someone else to suffer due to my failure to act reasonably responsibly and to make them aware that the manufacturer has set forth guidelines (you may call them recommendations) as to the proper use and also improper use of the device so they will have the best user experience. If someone knowingly decides to ignore such "recommendations" and then "bricks" their phone or worse, then they have no complaint against us for either implied or perceived failure to provide accurate information.

If you want to put jet fuel into your car's gas tank, don't complain to the manufacturer when the engine fails. Likewise if you want to plug a potentially inferior charger (or one incorrectly designed for your phone but correctly designed for another), into your phone - one that may produce either dirty or elevated voltages or currents and in doing so destroy your battery, well...

 

[ultra09hd]

It a usb charger man...the whole concept behind this is that they are universal ...a cell phone charger with usb port, with the correct matching ends for charger and phone will work for any cellphone. Thats why they designed them this way. Warranty cannot be void by law. If a camera usb charger is used...then yes they can and will void warranty due to incorrect chargers. The cables however could be swapped provided the a & b ends match the device and charger. Cables have no play here.they are universal, Usb is designed this way. The chargers ..well, dont use your camera or psp charger for your phone ...this could and most likley will cause damage.

 

[Trash Can]

It a usb charger man...the whole concept behind this is that they are universal ...a cell phone charger with usb port, with the correct matching ends for charger and phone will work for any cellphone. Thats why they designed them this way. Warranty cannot be void by law.

There are quality light bulbs and cheap ones, authentic golf clubs and knockoffs, good beer and cheap beer. Are saying all chargers are the same? I think not.

There are exemptions, exceptions, fine print, interpretations from court cases, etc to just about every law ever written. Like FoxKat said, while you may be comfortable using whatever you want and feel protected by law, I don't think it's a good idea to play jailhouse lawyer and issue a blanket statement advising others that they will be protected in all cases should they do the same. YMMV

 

[altspeed]

* watching quietly with my moto charger, spare moto charger, moto p893 power pack, moto usb cables, and happy healthy bionic *

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using DroidForums

 

[ultra09hd]

Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used

with the product in order to retain the warranty. [2] This is

commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions, [3]

and is frequently mentioned in the context of third-party computer parts, such as memory and hard drives.

From the magnusson- moss act

The first part says it all my friend

 

[FoxKat]

It a usb charger man...the whole concept behind this is that they are universal ...a cell phone charger with usb port, with the correct matching ends for charger and phone will work for any cellphone. Thats why they designed them this way. Warranty cannot be void by law. If a camera usb charger is used...then yes they can and will void warranty due to incorrect chargers. The cables however could be swapped provided the a & b ends match the device and charger. Cables have no play here.they are universal, Usb is designed this way. The chargers ..well, dont use your camera or psp charger for your phone ...this could and most likley will cause damage.

I am sorry but your logic (as Trash Can points out) holds no water. All charger blocks are NOT created equal, and as such the voltages they put out, the current they are capable of producing, the tolerances they adhere to, the protections they provide to the device and battery for overvoltage and failure, and the filtering they provide for clean voltage signal are all different.

There IS some truth to your logic when discussing USB ports on computer devices (laptops and desktops), since they are in themselves computers and so they already have highly regulated and filtered supplies. The problem with taking working logic in one example such as a computer USB port, and apply it universally across many "like" examples, such as USB wall warts (or AC power adapters) made in some foreign land - is that you are not allowing for design differences between device manufacturers regarding their own unique charging needs (for example, custom battery designs), and between power supply manufacturers who design those wall warts to meet the specifications of those device manufacturers.

To understand what I am talking about, you'd have to tear apart a few different manufacturers' power supplies and you'll quickly find some are very simple, generally regulated and lighly filtered supplies using individual solid state components where others are highly engineered, well regulated and highly filtered supplies using computerized integrated circuit regulation and protection circuitry. All you have to do is look at the waveforms of the different supplies on a scope to see just how important proper regulation and filtering is, not to mention the necessary protection circuitry needed to assure proper charging of a Lithium Ion Polymer battery pack without overcharging and doing potentially serious damage.

I will agree to disagree with you. You can use your $5 cheap knock-off power supply made in some foreign land (or your high quality LG supply made for a different phone with different battery size and different power requirements), and allow it to feed into your $700 Motorola RAZR any level of dirty power or excess voltages and current you wish. Me, I would rather not risk all that can be doing so.

 

[FoxKat]

* watching quietly with my moto charger, spare moto charger, moto p893 power pack, moto usb cables, and happy healthy bionic *

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using DroidForums

:rofl3: ^^ That's funny!!

:hail::gotmyvote:

 

[FoxKat]

There are quality light bulbs and cheap ones, authentic golf clubs and knockoffs, good beer and cheap beer. Are saying all chargers are the same? I think not.

There are exemptions, exceptions, fine print, interpretations from court cases, etc to just about every law ever written. Like FoxKat said, while you may be comfortable using whatever you want and feel protected by law, I don't think it's a good idea to play jailhouse lawyer and issue a blanket statement advising others that they will be protected in all cases should they do the same. YMMV

:hail:

 

[altspeed]

Affirmation or acceptance by action/performance has at least 100 years more legal precedent than magnusson-moss. Add that to the fact that even magnusson-moss states unless said mfgr can empirically show that there are empirically demonstrable adverse effects, so the magnusson-moss argument is of negligible value in this very specific case because all batteries and especially lithium cells are (as well as the phone's onboard charge circuitry) have very specific input parameters. A charger is not a charger. Try charging a lithium cell with a peak detecting nicad charger that has nominally the same output. Call the fire department first LOL. It's not freaking alchemy, elementary chemistry/physics boys and girls. Ñ

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using DroidForums

 

[pappy53]

My question is how would they know that you used a third-party charger?

 

[ultra09hd]

We have some cool features planned for the site, if you have a suggestion on what could make the place better, please let us know!

If you have questions on using the forum, post here.

Huh/wha

No idea where this quote is from...

 

[ultra09hd]

Affirmation or acceptance by action/performance has at least 100 years more legal precedent than magnusson-moss. Add that to the fact that even magnusson-moss states unless said mfgr can empirically show that there are empirically demonstrable adverse effects, so the magnusson-moss argument is of negligible value in this very specific case because all batteries and especially lithium cells are (as well as the phone's onboard charge circuitry) have very specific input parameters. A charger is not a charger. Try charging a lithium cell with a peak detecting nicad charger that has nominally the same output. Call the fire department first LOL. It's not freaking alchemy, elementary chemistry/physics boys and girls. Ñ

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using DroidForums

Well duh man...why the hell would one use a ni-cad charger on a lipo pack?