legal options

[portun8]

Seems there are several topics relating to the legal side of doing things with phones paid for and owned by the wireless carriers customers. Has anyone really looked into this in order for us to use our phones to their full capability and remove any software or applications we don't want? Some issues are:

1 - wireless tethering not using the carriers app
2 - rooting and maintaining warranties
3 - removing bloatware or getting the carrier to do
so by requesting it

Are there any real cases to look at?
Is public pressure worth trying?
Has anyone simply insisted and succeeded?

After all no one is forced to keep software on a PC they buy or dealer installed ads on a car so why are mobile devices any different?

 

[SquireSCA]

Seems there are several topics relating to the legal side of doing things with phones paid for and owned by the wireless carriers customers. Has anyone really looked into this in order for us to use our phones to their full capability and remove any software or applications we don't want? Some issues are:

1 - wireless tethering not using the carriers app
2 - rooting and maintaining warranties
3 - removing bloatware or getting the carrier to do
so by requesting it

Are there any real cases to look at?
Is public pressure worth trying?
Has anyone simply insisted and succeeded?

After all no one is forced to keep software on a PC they buy or dealer installed ads on a car so why are mobile devices any different?

It wouldn't matter, as you signed away any "rights" when you signed a contract or the TOS.

 

[MrSmith317]

It wouldn't matter, as you signed away any "rights" when you signed a contract or the TOS.

You know as well as I do most of the terms of the TOS are illegal and/or wouldn't stand up in court. I think the op is on to something. Maybe not pertaining to Rezound Development, but I think we need the EFF to help us out.

 

[SquireSCA]

You know as well as I do most of the terms of the TOS are illegal and/or wouldn't stand up in court. I think the op is on to something. Maybe not pertaining to Rezound Development, but I think we need the EFF to help us out.

Well, it would hold up in court in that we signed and agreed to it. If you sign a contract saying that I can punch you in the face whenever I want, it is hard to press charges for assault when I do so. LOL

 

[MrSmith317]

It's harder for a company to say sign away all your Constitutionally protected rights just because we put in some legalese in a TOS. It's been proven time and time again that TOS's and EULA's are BS mainly meant to protect the company's rear end. If I sold a product and say in my TOS that everyone that uses my product must give me their first born child, it's not going to stand up in court. Just like recently how MS and Sony want to put in their TOS's that by agreeing to their TOS you can't sue them...Yeah, because that's not illegal.

 

[SquireSCA]

It's harder for a company to say sign away all your Constitutionally protected rights just because we put in some legalese in a TOS. It's been proven time and time again that TOS's and EULA's are BS mainly meant to protect the company's rear end. If I sold a product and say in my TOS that everyone that uses my product must give me their first born child, it's not going to stand up in court. Just like recently how MS and Sony want to put in their TOS's that by agreeing to their TOS you can't sue them...Yeah, because that's not illegal.

Well, none of the things that we are discussing are Constitutionally protected, that is the difference.

I am with you in that I detest cell phone companies, I think that they are sharks and will screw you any way they can and then send you a bill for it.

At the end of the day, you could win the right to do what you want with your phone, but they reserve to right to decide what devices can access their network. I think that in light of the fact that the Nexus will have an unlocked bootloader and can run ROM's and custom kernels and still use VZW's network, that ANY phone should be able to, but I just don't see that happening...

 

[RacingTiger03]

yeah, the only true legal standing would be constitutional binding rights and agreements. Such as that between verizon and the govt when VZ purchased the rights for their block of 4G. There was a thread about that awhile back, maybe something will eventually happen, but don't hold your breath waiting. Legislation and the Judicial system move at the speed of molasses unless it is a blatant disregard for public safety, and even then sometimes *shrug*

 

[MrSmith317]

@SquireSCA...All Android Phones were not created equally?

To go back to the initial list for a second,

1 - wireless tethering not using the carriers app
2 - rooting and maintaining warranties
3 - removing bloatware or getting the carrier to do so...

1) Unless you're paying for it,that's never going to happen
2) Manufacturers void warranties for rooting because you're altering the way the system works. Rightfully so but they really should have expanded terms, such as hardware malfunctions are still covered.
3) Yeah that will absolutely never happen. Personally I think having it locked should fall under some License Agreement or another with Google, Federal/State Govt, or just plain the Devil "himself"(Because let's face it, Verizon doesn't deal with the other side at all).

Really number two is the only one that should fall under federal protection in the US. The band that Verizon bought has a stipulation from the FCC that the phones on that sepectrum nee to remain as open as possible.

 

[RacingTiger03]

also 3rd is available with ICS from what I've read. I don't know whether it is a hide/freeze/ or uninstall option though.

 

[Cammo]

My business law class simply said that you cannot contract to perform an illegal act. If terms of the agreement are illegal, that term is null and void.

Of course, as with any legal dispute, that open up all kinds of "full employment" and welfare opportunities for lawyers to argue the facts...

 

[MrSmith317]

My business law class simply said that you cannot contract to perform an illegal act. If terms of the agreement are illegal, that term is null and void.

Of course, as with any legal dispute, that open up all kinds of "full employment" and welfare opportunities for lawyers to argue the facts...

So the two year contract I signed with Verizon is null and void??? What...you mean the amount of money they charge me isn't extortion? Oh, I guess you're going to tell me the chains they have all over my phone doesn't constitute slavery either huh..??

 

[atomicwedgie]

2) Manufacturers void warranties for rooting because you're altering the way the system works. Rightfully so but they really should have expanded terms, such as hardware malfunctions are still covered.

This can't happen because messing with the OS can have an impact on the hardware. As just one example, suppose you root and use an overclocking tool? Just like on a PC, abuse of overclocking can result in a fried processor, transistors, etc.

While I am all for the companies being forced to leave the bootloader unlocked (who would buy a PC that didn't allow upgrading the OS?) , I can see there being a clause saying it voids the warranty.