Is it a bad habit to charge overnight?

[CaptainSS]

FoxKat had 15 posts in a 50 post thread? Responses to questions and statements.... what the hell is the point of this "attention" on a Moderator (Who actually contributes rather than simply lurking and pouncing)??

Fox nor any contributing Mod on this Forum or any Forum does so for monetary gain, they do so Free and for the benefit of all who choose to partake.

 

[CJM]

I don't know how this thread turned out like it did. But let's keep it cool folks.

Tapped from a Galaxy Nexus using Xparent ICS

 

[CaptainSS]

I Agree. I as a member of the forum simply want to see the recognition of the contribution (as a minimum) level of respect for those giving freely of their services.
Disecting or critiquing a contributing member (let alone a Mod) for the length of theor posts or the number of posts in a thread is simply inappropriate IMO, disresectful for certain.

 

[FoxKat]

Can we add to this that charging with power OFF will also extend long term life span of the battery?

I feel like a new battery thread aimed at users who used their last upgrade to grandfather unlimited and therefore want to extend the life span of their batteries would be awesome!

Thanks for your help tonight

1 Thessalonians 5:18

Well, the evidence suggests that charging with power off will assure a completely saturated 100% charge. This is why they suggest charging to 100% with power off during the meter training. This is the only way the meter can recognize the battery's true maximum capacity. There is good and bad in this...

1. It will give you the most power that the battery can hold, so if you're going to be away from any power sources for an extended period of time, you may wish to charge with power off prior to your outing, since it will extend the run-time of the phone for that one charge.
2. However it will stress the battery by pushing the voltage to the maximum recommended charge level (usually set to 4.2V, but I've actually seen higher voltages on my battery from a saturation charge), so it's actually detrimental to the "lifespan" of the battery, meaning it will actually result in an acceleration of the aging process, or in other words shorten the "lifespan".

So you need to balance the need with the want. You may need a battery that will last the expected life of the phone (and for you it could be 4 years, whereas it's targeted for 2), and yet you may also want it to last at least the entire day with only one charge. There has to be a compromise. So if you charge more frequently but in shorter charge cycles, and avoid charging to 100%, you will both extend the life of the battery and will still get through a day - just not without having to charge more than once.

The 100% electric automobile industry is dealing with this very problem right now and has all along. Due to demands of the public they have to compete with cars that have gas tanks which can take you 350 miles on a tank full, are relatively cheap to fill, fill very quickly, and can be filled just about anywhere, So they have to provide long power cycles, keep weight down, shorten the time to charge, and extend the life of the batteries all at the same time. It's like trying to be in all four corners of a room at the same time. You can only be close to one or two corners, but will be farther away from the other two or three. They have to find a comfort zone somewhere between all 4 objectives that results in an effective and efficient use of weight (and space), time (for charging), distance and cost.

Everyone wants the maximum number of miles per car charge, just like we want the maximum number of hours of use per phone charge, but at the same time nobody wants to pay the huge cost of replacing those batteries (which can be 25% of the cost of the car) if they should fail too soon (again, just like battery replacement of the phone is $150, phone cost $600), and furthermore nobody wants to have even larger batteries due to added weight in the auto industry which will reduce efficiency and bulk taking up space, and for bulk and weight in the case of phones. It's a delicate balance of what's enough versus what's too much or too little.

So car manufacturers are telling their electric car owners that if they can limit their charges to 85% of capacity, they will extend the usable lifespan of the +/- $7,000 battery modules from what is expected to be 3-4 years for 100% charges, to as much as 7 or more years with 85% charges. Also, just as with cell phone batteries, the car batteries are set to alert a charge is needed at somewhere around 15%, and just like cell phones, it will shut down completely at a relative usable charge level of 0%, to protect the ungodly expensive batteries from permanently shutting down.

Cell phone manufacturers know this too, so they try to both squeeze as much capacity out of the battery that is smallest, while both limiting the charge time needed and preventing the user from doing damage to the battery by overcharging. They know the greatest percentage of users are going to plug in at bedtime and unplug in the morning so the batteries will be sitting at high voltages for a long time. In order to deal with that, some set their maximum voltage level at 4.2V to get the longer run times, while getting a relatively long lifespan, some may set it higher (4.25 to 4.3V) to get even longer run-times but lifespan will suffer, while still others may set it lower (4.1V or 4V) to extend the life of the battery, but at the cost of shorter run-times per charge.

Unfortunately until batteries become infinite in their capacity, weigh nothing, are tiny comparatively speaking, and charge in 15 minutes (i.e. the Holy Grail), we'll be dealing with these issues in one form or another. I commend Motorola for having found a tremendous battery technology and merging it with their incredible engineering to come to a phone such as the Droid Razr MAXX which for just a few more millimeters in thickness and a few more grams of weight versus the already incredible Droid RAZR, has a run-time that leaves every other smartphone out there dead in the dust long before it's even close to being ready for a charge.

 

[TRiLLSiPPiN]

this is finally the answer to the original post that we're all aiming for!

, if this were x d a I probably would have been told to google it and I would have been left without an answer frustrated and unable to help anyone in the future

thank you for this wonderful insight I look forward to sharing it with others in the future

1 Thessalonians 5:18

 

[TRiLLSiPPiN]

Just a thought.... Is there a way to trick the meter so it thinks the battery is at 100 when it's only at 90?

Can we somehow change the max voltage on our phones? That way we could customize it to our liking and need., and still charge overnight

1 Thessalonians 5:18

 

[FoxKat]

this is finally the answer to the original post that we're all aiming for!

, if this were x d a I probably would have been told to google it and I would have been left without an answer frustrated and unable to help anyone in the future

thank you for this wonderful insight I look forward to sharing it with others in the future

1 Thessalonians 5:18

Thank you your obvious and sincere respect and appreciation. I do it all for you and the other members. Does it make me feel good - sure it does. Do I get paid for it...nada. Am I bitter, quite the contrary, I'm proud to be able to give at least SOME people information that they find valuable. For the rest, well you can please some of the people some of the time...

 

[FoxKat]

Just a thought.... Is there a way to trick the meter so it thinks the battery is at 100 when it's only at 90?

Can we somehow change the max voltage on our phones? That way we could customize it to our liking and need., and still charge overnight

1 Thessalonians 5:18

That's a great question and I don't know the answer. The threshold that is set as 100% could be hard-coded into the meter, it could be soft-coded, or it could be electronically fixed in a resistor or capacitor value which would not be able to change. I would lean toward it being a soft-coded number, but where it's stored and how it's implemented is another story. It's certainly a great idea. Imagine if you could select one of maybe 3, 4 or more battery profiles...

1. MAXX runtime (which would result in longer charges and shorter battery life)
2. Performance (maybe a longer runtime but not as long as number 1)
3. Balanced (a compromise of the two MAXX profiles)
4. MAXX battery life (the opposite of above)

 

[GSdub510]

If you don't mind sharing Fox, what are your charging habits? Sporadically during the day? Late afternoon or at night? Phone on or off? All of this is kinda overwhelming, information overload haha great stuff though

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Droid Forums

 

[TRiLLSiPPiN]

Talk about a power user option

quick somebody patent this technology before a company I won't name in steals it

1 Thessalonians 5:18

 

[FoxKat]

If you don't mind sharing Fox, what are your charging habits? Sporadically during the day? Late afternoon or at night? Phone on or off? All of this is kinda overwhelming, information overload haha great stuff though

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Droid Forums

No, of course I don't mind. I am a power user, but my habits changed dramatically a number of weeks back which caused me to be on the phone nearly the whole day and required me to MAXX the battery power during the day.

Normally I charge overnight (yeah, with power ON except during trainings), and start the day with 100% charge while under parasitic load (meaning while the phone was also using power, which means it probably wasn't a true 100% charge). Then I would use it for a couple hours before leaving for work. During that time, I'm on WIFI so the cell radios are off. Then I leave for work and the phone goes into the Navigation dock and gets about 1/2 hour of rapid charge from the car adapter. By the time I am at work, the phone's back to or very close to 100% again. Then during the day at work I am mostly on the PC, the phone is on WIFI but I don't use it much except for phone calls or texts, so it does use the cell towers but minimally. Some days I might have some transfers to do so the phone may be connected via USB for a while, so again it's getting a little boost in power. By the mid evening I am heading out again and may be out for several hours or longer, no charging available. Then it's into the car for the home commute and another 1/2 hour boost. Once home, I'm on the phone more than the PC because my wife uses the PC, so I may put another 4 or 5 hours on the phone before bed.

So a routine day may have me charging overnight, then 2 commute charges, possibly one USB charge, and possibly one or two more cruising drive charge between destinations (the phone lives in the Navigation dock when in the charge).

I've been accused of "not practicing what I preach", but if the phone does what I need it to do with my pattern of charge/discharge, then is there really anything wrong with it. I "preach" that if you need longer battery lifespan, you should do ...this..., and if you need longer runtimes, you should do ...that..., and if you want to prevent your phone from becoming a soft brick due to deep discharge, you should do ...the other..., but there's nothing in my comments that says EVERYBODY should do the same thing, since we're all needing different levels of performance and longevity out of our phones.

I will be replacing this phone before the battery reaches its end of life, even if I'm abusing it by running full charges and deep cycling it, whereas you said you might wind up keeping this phone for 4 years. Should I tell you how to charge and maintain your phone for MY purposes or for YOURS...and I know you know the right answer. :biggrin: So if I'm being criticized for not practicing what I preach, so be it. Sometimes the advice works for one and not for another. Better to be cautious and flexible than rigid and unguarded, especially when the payload is someone else's.

 

[FoxKat]

Talk about a power user option

quick somebody patent this technology before a company I won't name in steals it

1 Thessalonians 5:18

Too late, the electric car manufacturers already have it...:angry:

 

[GSdub510]

Good stuff. I'm at 8% right now with that annoying red light going off. Does it matter if I let it die?

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Droid Forums

 

[ultra09hd]

If it does die...just don't turn it on when you plug it up for the night.

sent from a RAZR on a Harley!

 

[FoxKat]

I will say that the phone's metering system is designed to be able to handle a 0% power down without a problem - but ONLY as long as the battery and meter are in sync. If the meter is showing 8%, but it's really at 1%, then by the time it gets to 3 or 4% on the meter, the battery is already in the negative region. This leads to batteries that will not respond to a charger after the phone's powered down. There are plenty of threads on "White light of death" and "bootlooping", and "power-cycling" all related to deep-discharged batteries. Also there are examples of phones which "apparently" died in a matter of only 15 minutes after having shown 40% or 50% remaining just a quarter hour before.

So what I recommend is:

1. Avoid allowing your phone to discharge much below 15% before connecting it to a charger (the phone says "charge me", why ignore its request?)
2. Treat the battery meter like the gas gauge on your car. You wouldn't let your car get to "empty", would you? If so, I suggest a membership to AAA as well. Or perhaps better, imagine the battery meter is the gauge on the Oxygen tanks strapped to your back while you are deep-sea diving. Once you hit that "reserve" tank (15%), you stop what you are doing no matter if it's collecting Gold Bullion, and begin your ascent to the surface, otherwise you may die.
3. Avoid ever letting the battery get near 0% charge level in any case if at all possible.
4. Avoid ever letting the phone self-power down at 0%, but if it happens, be ready to plug in immediately to charge. If you don't, the natural background discharge of the battery (all batteries lose power even when not being used), will push the voltages down to dangerous levels, and you'll be risking the White light of death (where when you plug the charger in, you get a steady white light but the phone will not respond to power up.)

In the end, consider the last 15% of charge level as a "reserve tank" which is saying, "Hey, you've already used up the main tank, now you're running on borrowed time. You'd better hurry up and get to a charger or I'll leave you flat."