Android....What

[coldhardtruth]

Pissed like a pink pony!! Lmao! Love it. I understand the confusion but I would think the diff hardware would be why only certain phones get certain updates. I didnt read the entire thread so forgive me if it was already mentioned.

Sent from my GB Incredible

 

[czerdrill]

Pissed like a pink pony!! Lmao! Love it. I understand the confusion but I would think the diff hardware would be why only certain phones get certain updates. I didnt read the entire thread so forgive me if it was already mentioned.

Sent from my GB Incredible

No, it's most probably because many manufacturers apply their own skins on top of android like Sense and Blur, and they have to make it work with the OS software. Plus, Google changes the way some things work, which end up breaking functionality, which manufacturers have to figure out before pushing an update. As of today, there haven't been any hardware requirements for android OS' that are currently on any phone. That could change, but it's more a software issue, then a hardware.

 

[SixStringTheory]

Well cz we agree with each other. Most people don't know or care. I never said no one cares. I said the vast majority don't.

And don't forget Apple is fragmented too. Not everyone has the latest device. Not all features of the latest OS release work on all devices. It's the same thing. But you rarely hear about it.

Yea there's a billion more Android devices, so the "problem" seems to be magnified. But really if it was that big a problem you'd see it in sales. Android's growth is ridiculous. So even if fragmentation has tangible, negative affects it's not enough to really matter right now (to most consumers)

 

[czerdrill]

Well cz we agree with each other. Most people don't know or care. I never said no one cares. I said the vast majority don't.

And don't forget Apple is fragmented too. Not everyone has the latest device. Not all features of the latest OS release work on all devices. It's the same thing. But you rarely hear about it.

Yea there's a billion more Android devices, so the "problem" seems to be magnified. But really if it was that big a problem you'd see it in sales. Android's growth is ridiculous. So even if fragmentation has tangible, negative affects it's not enough to really matter right now (to most consumers)

Definitely. Most people don't care, I agree. But I wouldn't say that most people aren't affected. The difference between those of us on droidforums and those who just go and buy a phone is that we know where to look for help, or we know why it's happening. I can imagine that someone can get frustrated if the app they had suddenly stops working or gets all buggy after an OTA. Lucky for them (I guess haha), OTAs don't happen very often in the android world haha...so overall the phone you have in your hand is probably mostly stable. It's when an OTA is pushed that everyone comes out of the woodwork with complaints. But, as I mentioned earlier, we'll see a slowdown of updates so most of these issues should hopefully rectify themselves in the next generation of android phones. Of course, the only people that can screw it up is Google themselves!

 

[SixStringTheory]

I've yet to have any app stop working and I'm on an OG droid lol.

Fragmentation is like the swine flu. It's just the big problem that bloggers jump on to get page views. Not that it's not an issue. Just that it's so overblown it's ridiculous.

And then you get posts like the OP. Yea he has legitimate concerns. But there's just so much wrong. And it's understandable. A lot of people don't even know where to place blame. Is it Google's fault, Qualcomm's fault, HTC, Motorola's that Netflix will only work on some devices? Who knows.

But even that's a fairly isolated case.

 

[czerdrill]

Yeah it's most probably overblown, but there are issues. One app I know that just flat out doesn't work on Gingerbread is protector. Worked fine on Eclair and Froyo. Other apps will work, but will force close or get buggy until the dev releases an update. It happens daily, where you see an update to an app, get all excited and the changelog says "fixed force close on Incredible Gingerbread" or something haha. Luckily, the android devs are great and take care of problems fast.

I do agree that very few people know what fragmentation is, and all the tech blogs going crazy over it is overblown. But it is a problem, even if it doesn't affect an individual user. I think people are more apt to think "Geez this phone sucks" when it gets buggy, then say "Hmm...must be fragmentation, I'll just wait for the OTA to come out". In other words, a lot of people just shut up and live with it haha.

As far as technical specs...I can almost guarantee that the people who go crazy over those things are the ones on sites like this. The average user doesn't even know the difference between RAM and ROM. "How much memory do you have?" (When they mean disk space) or "Do you like my screensaver?"..."Well I would, but I'm looking at your wallpaper" haha

 

[PereDroid]

Also agree that "normal people" don't care.

Sounds like the VZW rep was an idiot.

I have 7 users at my office on Android.

3 Droids
2 Incredibles
1 Fascinate
1 Droid 2

No one knows, or cares, what version of the software they are running. Those with the Droid 1's never asked if any new features were added when they got 2.2. They just did the update.
One of the 2 Incredible users was anxiously awaiting 2.2. That was for one feature he heard about: Update All Apps at once. The other Dinc user didn't say anything about the update.

It is totally overblown. Even me, the tech guy, doesn't care. Everyone is asking "will the Droid get 2.3?????"
I don't know. I don't care. My phone works fine... scratch that... GOOD the way it is.

 

[jbdow]

Hey czerdrill- yeah, the language kills me too - you have a flash drive, not a disk, and flash used to be something you would lose when you turned the machine off. like memory...d'oh... must be some bizarre conspiracy of dingbats trying to change our collective memories? and if it's "live", then it's a screensaver, i don't care what the
"powers that be" say- they're not fooling me....

r, john

 

[piquat]

Needles to say the people went with the iPhone when I was in the store, and who would blame them, they hand them a phone and say here is a phone that's just like the other apple phones, not 15 different versions of Androids, who wouldn't choose the simpler way?

Who? The majority of this forums members.

If you really think like this, you made a HUGE mistake getting any Android phone.

Just like those people you saw in the store, you too should have went with an Apple product. Some people see choice as confusion. Having to make decisions on tech sends them reeling. My 76 yr. old mother is a shining example of this. I love android but if she wanted a smart phone I'd send her straight towards the Apple line of products.

There is nothing wrong with this. I'm not implying they're stupid. They have different priorities in life. That's fine. Fortunately, there is a phone that's perfect for those people. The iPhone.

 

[czerdrill]

Needles to say the people went with the iPhone when I was in the store, and who would blame them, they hand them a phone and say here is a phone that's just like the other apple phones, not 15 different versions of Androids, who wouldn't choose the simpler way?

Who? The majority of this forums members.

If you really think like this, you made a HUGE mistake getting any Android phone.

Just like those people you saw in the store, you too should have went with an Apple product. Some people see choice as confusion. Having to make decisions on tech sends them reeling. My 76 yr. old mother is a shining example of this. I love android but if she wanted a smart phone I'd send her straight towards the Apple line of products.

There is nothing wrong with this. I'm not implying they're stupid. They have different priorities in life. That's fine. Fortunately, there is a phone that's perfect for those people. The iPhone.

The majority of this forums members? That's not saying much...

Sent from my Droid

 

[piquat]

Needles to say the people went with the iPhone when I was in the store, and who would blame them, they hand them a phone and say here is a phone that's just like the other apple phones, not 15 different versions of Androids, who wouldn't choose the simpler way?

Who? The majority of this forums members.

If you really think like this, you made a HUGE mistake getting any Android phone.

Just like those people you saw in the store, you too should have went with an Apple product. Some people see choice as confusion. Having to make decisions on tech sends them reeling. My 76 yr. old mother is a shining example of this. I love android but if she wanted a smart phone I'd send her straight towards the Apple line of products.

There is nothing wrong with this. I'm not implying they're stupid. They have different priorities in life. That's fine. Fortunately, there is a phone that's perfect for those people. The iPhone.

The majority of this forums members? That's not saying much...

Sent from my Droid

What it says is that if you like choice, get an android device. If choice, at least when it comes to tech, is a headache for you, you should get an iPhone.

Yes, there are many versions. Many phones. Many apps. All of this, for some one that is confused by tech, obviously, stay away.

My problem with the OP and the point I am making is that the OP tries to make the point that all of this choice is bad. Well, for him, ya, it's probably bad. But to make it out as if EVERYTHING should be done the Apple way, isn't really looking at the big picture. Sure, it's better for some people. But the OP needs to realize that it's not better for ALL people. Some of us want that choice. The very reason that he states for me to choose IOS over Android is the reason some of us don't. Not everybody is the same. Calling it inferior would be as dumb as me calling IOS inferior. It's not, it's just different. Built for a different demographic.

I'm glad BOTH OS's are around. I'd hate to have to explain Android to my 76 year old mother. I handed my phone to her once and she didn't even know where to begin to make a call. She needs the "walled garden". It's a prison to me. The nature of a more open, maluble OS defines it's need to be a bit more complicated and fragmented.

 

[czerdrill]

Who? The majority of this forums members.

If you really think like this, you made a HUGE mistake getting any Android phone.

Just like those people you saw in the store, you too should have went with an Apple product. Some people see choice as confusion. Having to make decisions on tech sends them reeling. My 76 yr. old mother is a shining example of this. I love android but if she wanted a smart phone I'd send her straight towards the Apple line of products.

There is nothing wrong with this. I'm not implying they're stupid. They have different priorities in life. That's fine. Fortunately, there is a phone that's perfect for those people. The iPhone.

The majority of this forums members? That's not saying much...

Sent from my Droid

What it says is that if you like choice, get an android device. If choice, at least when it comes to tech, is a headache for you, you should get an iPhone.

Yes, there are many versions. Many phones. Many apps. All of this, for some one that is confused by tech, obviously, stay away.

My problem with the OP and the point I am making is that the OP tries to make the point that all of this choice is bad. Well, for him, ya, it's probably bad. But to make it out as if EVERYTHING should be done the Apple way, isn't really looking at the big picture. Sure, it's better for some people. But the OP needs to realize that it's not better for ALL people. Some of us want that choice. The very reason that he states for me to choose IOS over Android is the reason some of us don't. Not everybody is the same. Calling it inferior would be as dumb as me calling IOS inferior. It's not, it's just different. Built for a different demographic.

I'm glad BOTH OS's are around. I'd hate to have to explain Android to my 76 year old mother. I handed my phone to her once and she didn't even know where to begin to make a call. She needs the "walled garden". It's a prison to me. The nature of a more open, maluble OS defines it's need to be a bit more complicated and fragmented.

I don't think the op is saying all this choice is bad, he's saying if "choice" is a selling point, the people who care about it shouldn't be so frustrated. Like I said, trying to say that everyone that has an android phone did extensive research and made an informed decision is false. The truth of the matter is the overwhelming majority bought android because of the marketing and because they thought it was a
viable alternative to ios. But for the ones who did research and know everything there is to know about android, it's annoying when things don't work or your phone is not supported past six months.

The majority won't complain, not because they are elite users who are happy with their choice, but because they don't know better. The ones that do know better, like the op, are annoyed at eol after six months and the lack of updates. Not being upset at that is the same as everyone who thinks iphone users who just accept that "they're holding it the wrong way" are dumb. The manufactures and verizon are pretty much saying "your phone will be obsolete in six months, you're stuck in a two year contract, now deal with it". I don't blame the op for being upset.

Sent from my Droid

 

[czerdrill]

Hey czerdrill- yeah, the language kills me too - you have a flash drive, not a disk, and flash used to be something you would lose when you turned the machine off. like memory...d'oh... must be some bizarre conspiracy of dingbats trying to change our collective memories? and if it's "live", then it's a screensaver, i don't care what the
"powers that be" say- they're not fooling me....

r, john

Yeah man it can be funny haha. But honestly I don't have an issue with people who don't know that your wallpaper is not your screensaver, etc. I think its funnier that some people here act as if android users are making informed decisions when buying their phones. Truth is they're not. No one cares about dual cores, memory and 4G. They get their phone cuz they think its cool or because they saw a commercial. Its just funny to me that some android users think they're in this super elite group of educated consumers and everyone else are just "sheep"...

Sent from my Droid

 

[piquat]

I agree with him on that, which is why I didn't quote him on that. What I quoted was his assertion that:

Needles to say the people went with the iPhone when I was in the store, and who would blame them, they hand them a phone and say here is a phone that's just like the other apple phones, not 15 different versions of Androids, who wouldn't choose the simpler way?

You can't have all this ability to mold it to your liking without all that fragentation. They go hand in hand. This tends to make things complicated. I run Linux. It's very costumizable. All the choices and the ways they are implemented, make it complicated. Same principle.

 

[czerdrill]

I agree with him on that, which is why I didn't quote him on that. What I quoted was his assertion that:

Needles to say the people went with the iPhone when I was in the store, and who would blame them, they hand them a phone and say here is a phone that's just like the other apple phones, not 15 different versions of Androids, who wouldn't choose the simpler way?

You can't have all this ability to mold it to your liking without all that fragentation. They go hand in hand. This tends to make things complicated. I run Linux. It's very costumizable. All the choices and the ways they are implemented, make it complicated. Same principle.

Android is fragmented, yes. Anyone who says it's not is lying to themselves or has no idea what they're talking about. But that's not the issue. I don't think you should not expect fragmentation when you have an open source OS. It's gonna happen whether you like it or not. But, and I think this is the point of the OP, fragmentation on a mobile device is far different from fragmentation on a desktop based version of Linux. The main difference being you don't have to wait to get the latest Linux version once it's released. Android is another story. You have to wait months, and sometimes you won't get it at all unless you buy a new device. Comparing mobile phones to computers isn't and will never be a fair comparison. In fact it doesn't make sense to do so.

So who's fault is it? I think it's Google's. Sure we can blame the OEMs and the carrier because that's who we get our update from, but Google is the one that's releasing version after version after version of Android with no standard release cycle and no time for OEMs to update their phones. Like I said earlier, the uproar over a rushed OTA just to make a few people happy would be ridiculous. People are always looking for someone to blame. If Motorola released a GB OTA tomorrow, and it broke functionality of several of it's phones, we'd have people here cursing Motorola to high heaven.

It's not easy to just throw together an update for android and push it to subscribers. There has to be a crapload of testing, quality assurance, retesting, and more testing. There are so many android devices with so many different hardware/software components (flash/no flash, keyboard/no keyboard, Blur/Sense/TouchWiz). You don't just compile from source and send it to Verizon to approve. I don't think the OEMs are at fault for this at all. Google creates a vanilla version, allows OEMs to modify, skin and add whatever proprietary features they want, and then do it again 3 months later. That's never going to solve the fragmentation issue.

I run Linux too. I write shell scripts. I install Apache, MySQL, PHP and mail servers on various Linux distributions. I administer databases on Linux. I've used every flavor of Linux known to man. I do the whole nine, and I can honestly say I have not seen fragmentation issues across Linux distros like I see across android devices. The point is my Linux installation on my desktop/laptop is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with Android fragmentation. Android fragmentation is caused by Google's lack of a standard release cycle, and lack of full backwards compatibility between versions. If I go from Ubuntu to RedHat, I can expect some functionality to be different (but even then, it's not like I have to relearn everything I know). If I go from Ubuntu 10.04 to Ubuntu 10.10 I don't expect my applications to just stop working...and they shouldn't. With android versions, they do.

The OP, as I understood it, is not saying fragmentation shouldn't exist, he's saying Google shouldn't contribute to it getting worse by releasing version after version, and that there has to be some kind of standardization.