Android Passing iOS In Apps!

Skull One

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There are 4 CPUs, 3 GPUs, 7 screen formats (with variations on those no less) and 4 memory foot prints for Android right now.

The Dalvik Virtual Machine was developed for the sole purpose to get around those issues. The Android SDK was then developed to allow developers to write one code base using one of several offset XML based layout systems with 3 level of included graphics to properly display the programmers intent.

There is only one problem, the phone maker has to implement the final API conversion routines in the firmware. Guess how many of them are broken?

Now that just covers non-gaming apps. OH I almost forgot, SQLite has several variations currently deployed which means if you have to write several piece of try-catch code segments to account for that issue too.

Fragmentation is not only real it is keeping developers, like me, from even bothering to program for Android. The return on investment simply isn't worth the time for some.

Android is a house of cards right now. One that is teetering. It should be interesting to watch how Google fixes the issues with the 3.x code base.


And keep this in mind. Three years ago Black Berry was the #1 phone. One year ago iPhone was the #1 phone. This year, maybe Android is the #1 phone. I wonder, if things change this fast, who will be #1 two years from now? And remember, three years ago everyone and their dog would have bet you it was Black Berry.
 

czerdrill

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There are 4 CPUs, 3 GPUs, 7 screen formats (with variations on those no less) and 4 memory foot prints for Android right now.

The Dalvik Virtual Machine was developed for the sole purpose to get around those issues. The Android SDK was then developed to allow developers to write one code base using one of several offset XML based layout systems with 3 level of included graphics to properly display the programmers intent.

There is only one problem, the phone maker has to implement the final API conversion routines in the firmware. Guess how many of them are broken?

Now that just covers non-gaming apps. OH I almost forgot, SQLite has several variations currently deployed which means if you have to write several piece of try-catch code segments to account for that issue too.

Fragmentation is not only real it is keeping developers, like me, from even bothering to program for Android. The return on investment simply isn't worth the time for some.

Android is a house of cards right now. One that is teetering. It should be interesting to watch how Google fixes the issues with the 3.x code base.


And keep this in mind. Three years ago Black Berry was the #1 phone. One year ago iPhone was the #1 phone. This year, maybe Android is the #1 phone. I wonder, if things change this fast, who will be #1 two years from now? And remember, three years ago everyone and their dog would have bet you it was Black Berry.

Thank you. Its quite easy for non programmers to dismiss fragmentation as irrelevant but app devs know better than that...

ROI with android is, in a word, a joke.

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Big Ry

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I just got one word for you developers...

COMEON!!!

Just make us some apps :p :)

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droid doctor

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With Ios its quality over quantity. Thats why a lot if the ios apps are better. With android its quantity over quality because Google doesn't regulate the apps like apple does.
 

kodiak799

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i'm not saying devs can't make money on android, but, and you can't deny this, it is far easier and much more likely that devs will make money with ios. and since you can't deny that, i would like your reason why you think that's the case if it's not fragmentation?

Having to work harder doesn't mean fragmentation is hurting Android. The number of apps (and I've got 100 apps on my phone, pretty much everything I need, and the quality varies from good to excellent) proves this.

Again, when people talk about fragmentation hurting Android I presume they mean people will stop developing. Where's the evidence of that?

Yeah, it may make sense to trial an app on IOS, lower "investment" if you will in relation to the market size. But fragmentation is not going to keep a successful, proven app in IOS from coming to Android.

I don't understand what your argument is. It's not a hard concept to grasp. I believe Android has passed IOS (at least in smartphones) and so, with fewer apps, it stands to reason the someone is making money.

Again, it's like the boy that cried wolf. There's no evidence fragmentation is hurting Android. That's not to say developers don't have to work harder, but the impact of fragmentation is clearly negligible.
 

kodiak799

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Thank you. Its quite easy for non programmers to dismiss fragmentation as irrelevant but app devs know better than that...

The proof is in the pudding. I'm not dismissing it as irrelevant in terms of having to work harder, but that doesn't mean fragmentation is having a negative impact. You seem to be struggling with that concept. When fragmentation is truly an issue, ROI becomes negative or too low to provide incentive and apps stop being made. I don't see what is so difficult about that to understand. The work or investment is relative

Yeah, developers have to work harder. But to be frank, so what? It clearly is not deterring them from pumping out apps (because there's clearly still money to be made), and we can talk about overall quality but there is a lot of excellent apps out there. 300k+ apps but how many people really have more than 100-200 apps on their phone?

Fragmentation has been a buzz "criticism" tossed around for about 12 months now and what has happened to the user base in that time? What has happen to the number of apps available? THAT makes it a boogeyman argument. Sure, it's more work to develop on Android and everyone loves to complain about how hard they work, but the negative impact on Android is simply not there.

Being unsympathetic to developers doesn't mean I don't acknowledge the difficulty involved. They choose to develop and if they weren't making money I imagine they'd choose not to. In other words, fragmentation is more of a nuisance (to developers) than a real problem (for Android).
 

hookbill

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I just got one word for you developers...

COMEON!!!

Just make us some apps :p :)

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

I've got a few words for people who want more apps. Pay for them.

Quit starting your posts by saying I'm looking for a free app that does such and such. That's not how it works. If you want better apps and more of them you'll need to pay.

The idea that Android is even close to IOS in apps is absurd. If you believe it you're living in a dream world.
 

czerdrill

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i'm not saying devs can't make money on android, but, and you can't deny this, it is far easier and much more likely that devs will make money with ios. and since you can't deny that, i would like your reason why you think that's the case if it's not fragmentation?

Having to work harder doesn't mean fragmentation is hurting Android. The number of apps (and I've got 100 apps on my phone, pretty much everything I need, and the quality varies from good to excellent) proves this.

Again, when people talk about fragmentation hurting Android I presume they mean people will stop developing. Where's the evidence of that?

Yeah, it may make sense to trial an app on IOS, lower "investment" if you will in relation to the market size. But fragmentation is not going to keep a successful, proven app in IOS from coming to Android.

I don't understand what your argument is. It's not a hard concept to grasp. I believe Android has passed IOS (at least in smartphones) and so, with fewer apps, it stands to reason the someone is making money.

Again, it's like the boy that cried wolf. There's no evidence fragmentation is hurting Android. That's not to say developers don't have to work harder, but the impact of fragmentation is clearly negligible.

I think my argument is pretty evident. from a developer perspective fragmentation is a problem. just because you refuse to accept that doesnt make it not so lol.

i'm talking about potential for revenue and why ios has a far bigger potential, and you're talking about quantity of apps. anyone and their mother can put an app on the android market. you can too...i'm not arguing that fragmentation somehow prevents devs from developing and that their programming skills are made moot because of fragmentation. you're, for some reason, correlating the fact that people haven't stopped developing for android with "fragmentation must not be a problem". you yourself can put out 90 apps on the android market if you wanted to, man. quantity has zero to do with fragmentation. i don't understand why you don't get that.

the real issue is 1) why aren't people making as much money on the android market as they do with the app store and 2) why are ios apps so much better quality then android apps (now...i know you'll come here and say "my apps are great quality and do their job well", but if you compare an ios app to its android counterpart, the difference is night and day, facebook being a popular example).

the reason is fragmentation. why are there 300,000 android phones activated each day, but ios has 76% of all app revenue for all smartphones? why is apple expected to dominate app revenue through 2014? there has to be a reason why android apps are not selling, right? what do you suppose that reason is? i mean you say installed base is so high, and that fragmentation is not an issue (meaning you dont think it matters that there are so many OS versions, hardware configs to prevent an app dev from creating a quality app that should give them decent revenue, right?)

so what is it?
 

czerdrill

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Just a little tidbit, the app is "fixed" now, but it was a nightmare for the two weeks before they fixed it:

Latest Facebook For Android Update Fixes A Few Bugs, Adds Constant Force Close Feature | Android News, Reviews, Apps, Games, Phones, Tablets, Tips, Mods, Videos, Tutorials - Android Police

There's gotta be a reason why the facebook app for ios runs smooth as butter, but the first EIGHTY-SEVEN pages of user reviews for the android app is talking about the ridiculous amount of force closes, right?

I mean...you're trying to tell me that's NOT because of fragmentation??
 

czerdrill

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I just got one word for you developers...

COMEON!!!

Just make us some apps :p :)

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

I've got a few words for people who want more apps. Pay for them.

Quit starting your posts by saying I'm looking for a free app that does such and such. That's not how it works. If you want better apps and more of them you'll need to pay.

The idea that Android is even close to IOS in apps is absurd. If you believe it you're living in a dream world.

I agree with this. There's no comparison when you look at a popular ios app and its android counterpart. That's not to say there aren't quality android apps, but I think anyone who isn't clouded by some blind loyalty to android can see the difference. And that's not cuz android devs suck or something, it's because of fragmentation. it's simply not easy to code an app that works with no issue on android.
 

nerdslogic

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The growth of Android is certainly not something to be taken lightly, with new phones being pushed out ever few weeks, iOSs' lead in app stock is expected to be shattered in time for you to send your kids back to school. The latest report comes from Distimo, who said, while iOS is still growing, the market is seeing a huge slow down in new application development, while Android is accelerating. Now we all know it’s not the amount of apps you have, it’s the quality of the apps. Android has some pretty great applications, just about one for everything, so it’s nice to know that even when we hold our phones wrong… We still do something right when it comes to apps.

Via: Android To Surpass Apple’s App Store In Size By August 2011: Report (Exclusive)

I am NOT trying to be a smart $#@ here but I wanted to ask should I just send this these things to the news group rather than starting threads?

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/android-smart-phones/146023-great-time-android-fan.html
 

kodiak799

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I think my argument is pretty evident. from a developer perspective fragmentation is a problem. just because you refuse to accept that doesnt make it not so lol.

From an Android perspective, it's not, and you know full well these arguments are always thrown about in doomsday predictions of Android (well, most have realized how foolish those arguments were now). It's surpassed IOS in ad impressions. It's a different model, but the profits are still there and with the Android installed base continuing to pull away that will only become more so the case.

You've yet to make a remotely compelling case why Android isn't profitable. Oh wait, it is, which again brings me back to developers being unhappy about having to work harder but still more than happy to create apps and make money. "Oh woh is me this really hurts me, so much that I continue to do it".
 

czerdrill

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I think my argument is pretty evident. from a developer perspective fragmentation is a problem. just because you refuse to accept that doesnt make it not so lol.

From an Android perspective, it's not, and you know full well these arguments are always thrown about in doomsday predictions of Android (well, most have realized how foolish those arguments were now). It's surpassed IOS in ad impressions. It's a different model, but the profits are still there and with the Android installed base continuing to pull away that will only become more so the case.

You've yet to make a remotely compelling case why Android isn't profitable. Oh wait, it is, which again brings me back to developers being unhappy about having to work harder but still more than happy to create apps and make money. "Oh woh is me this really hurts me, so much that I continue to do it".

Um...what?

iSuppli: Apple will snag 76% of app download market in 2011

I don't know what's more compelling than that (and I've already stated that in this thread, and you seem to have not read it or ignored it).

Or maybe you'd rather this?

iSuppli: Apple's App Store Will Dominate the Market Through 2014 | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

2011 app revenue will be 3.8 billion (yes billion) and ios will own 2.91 billion (yes billion) of that.

What exactly are you talking about? You're trying to argue that android app revenue can even be mentioned in the same sentence as ios app revenue?? apple is projected to dominate app revenue through 2014 so don't try to use the "android market is still growing excuse" as projections have already shown that the android market will "surpass" (in terms of quantity) the app store this year or early next year.
 

czerdrill

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BTW I realize from an android perspective, it's not a problem. I'm not arguing that android is not selling....i believe the argument is about fragmentation and not sales.
 

kodiak799

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the reason is fragmentation. why are there 300,000 android phones activated each day, but ios has 76% of all app revenue for all smartphones? why is apple expected to dominate app revenue through 2014? there has to be a reason why android apps are not selling

Because they are sold for free. It's a structural difference that has little to do with fragmentation, all else equal you're not getting the $1 or $2 upfront, but I believe Angry Birds makes more money from Android. The Android model is much more heavily based on ad revenue. That is a good thing or bad thing depending on the app.

I'm not denying the ROI is higher for IOS, but that doesn't mean fragmentation is a "problem". It's a challenge, it's more difficult, but it's not really hindering anything. Simply put none of the impact such as fewer apps or the death of Android due to fragmentation has materialized. You seem unable to distinguish from something being difficult to do and being prevented or incapable of doing it.

And the real reason developers aren't able to charge more money for their apps is, despite all the supposed "bad" apps out there, people are usually pretty happy with the free versions which means even a killer app can struggle sell. Sure, IOS apps may have more bells and whistles, but there's also an argument to be made that a lot of Android users don't see the need for the bells and whistles and won't pay for it.
 
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