Airplane Mode - Airlines don't care

[pilot25]

Thanks for your thoughts on this. However, I have heard many briefings on USAir flights mention that airplane mode was not an authorized mode of operation. The flight crew explicitly said phones had to remain OFF for the duration of the flight, AM did not count. So, it would appear that USAir has taken a different approach, or at least the crews that I flew with. Maybe it's an Airbus thing, the junk that they are

I didn't know that. Sometimes airlines are very very very slow to update their procedures because of the FAA headache to get them changed. They may have a line in their operating manual that states "mobile phones must be off" which might have been written before airplane mode was invented. Even though rational thought would dictate times have changed and airplane mode is okay the FAA doesn't see it that way.
Smart business sense would dictate to change this quickly but then airlines have never been smart at running a business.

 

[pilot25]

But, In the real world I would bet that 75% of passengers do not shut down all of their electronics...

Hah, that brings to mind a flight I had with Southwest once...

We just landed and rolled off the runway headed for the gate. About a minute later, the Captain came on and said that he was getting a lot of "lights" on in the cockpit from seatbelts that were unfastened

It was funny hearing the mass noise of about 50 seatbelts being refastened :icon_eek:

Gotta love Southwest crews. :icon_ banana:

LOL... We have no indications of that but we know everyone does it. I have seen pilots jam on the brakes when they hear that someone has gotten up when they aren't supposed to. Flight attendants say it's interesting seeing people tumble down the aisle. We aren't allowed to taxi if someone is standing up. I slowly apply the brakes when that happens so no one gets hurt but others are tired of people not listening. We can lose our licenses or get fined if there is an FAA inspector on board checking the operation of the flight.

 

[Backnblack]

We aren't allowed to taxi if someone is standing up.

But you can surf the net and overshoot a city......

 

[pilot25]

We aren't allowed to taxi if someone is standing up.

But you can surf the net and overshoot a city......

According to the briefings we received, a lot more happened than computing on laptops. It was basically a perfect storm of little things being blown off by the pilots and air traffic control until it snowballed into flying to far past the city. Laptops were but one of the many distractions that happened on the ground and in the air that you didn't hear about on TV.

In busy cities, NY, LA, Denver, etc... it's not uncommon to be vectored by ATC 25 miles past the airport to get in line with everyone else to land. Yes, 150 miles was bad and I don't apologize for those pilots. They screwed up and so did ATC. However, what they did didn't warrant losing their licenses.

 

[Backnblack]

We aren't allowed to taxi if someone is standing up.

But you can surf the net and overshoot a city......

According to the briefings we got a lot more happened than computing on laptops. It was basically a perfect storm of little things being blown off by the pilots and air traffic control until it was too late. laptops were but one of the many distractions that happened on the ground and in the air that you didn't hear about on TV.

Believing what the news says is like believing a VZW Tech or Rep....lol

 

[Zacko]

To the OP, not sure who you're flying with. I know Delta, American, SW and their partners all follow the no electronics below 10,000 feet rule and all specifically announce that cell phones in airplane mode are allowed above 10,000 feet. American and larger Delta flights even play a pre-recorded message to that effect. I know I've never had an issue with phone use on a plane even when I was flying with devices that were clearly phones (qwerty blackberry's, Moto Razr *Bejeweled ftw*)

 

[pilot25]

Everytime I read or listen to the "news" about an airline story it's always wrong. I've learned that anything I read or hear about a tech subject, I don't have knowledge of, it's probably also wrong.

Reality doesn't sell papers or advertisement spots.

 

[Erich_F]

Zacko, in post #14 I mentioned USscAir. That should explain plenty...they are deservedly most often voted as worst airline in the country. By that, I mean the business side. It's obvious that their flight crews are up to task (Hudson River).

Pilot25, I know there is no such light for seatbelts on the FD, but I did get a smile out of the panicing seatbelt un-doers

 

[cb2000a]

Everytime I read or listen to the "news" about an airline story it's always wrong. I've learned that anything I read or hear about a tech subject, I don't have knowledge of, it's probably also wrong.

Reality doesn't sell papers or advertisement spots.

That's for sure. I know this first hand. Oh and thanks for the heads up I WILL turn off my phone during ascent and descent on the trip home.

 

[pilot25]

Info from the NWA flight. I don't know the accuracy of the info but it's a portion of the debriefing the pilots submitted. I believe it to be real.

On the Delta/Northwest flight from San Diego to Minneapolis , after passing Denver , the flight attendant called the cockpit to let them know Tim's crew meal was ready. Tim was the "flying pilot" on this leg, so he told his F/O, when the flight attendant brings the meal up, he will step back to use the restroom. When Tim returned, the F/A left the cockpit and he began to eat his crew meal. When a pilot leaves to use the restroom, it is customary for the other pilot to brief him on his return on "any changes", such as altitude, heading, course changes or ATC center radio frequency changes, etc. In this instance, nothing was said, even though the first officer did receive a radio frequency change. The problem that occurred was that the first officer called Air Traffic Control on the new frequency but never received a response. It was an incorrect frequency. It was a Winnipeg Canada Center Frequency.

Now, Denver Center is trying to get a hold of them because they never checked in, the first officer had dialed in the wrong radio frequency. It was Denver ATC who called them so many times. However, there was a shift change at Denver Center and no one briefed the new controller that there was a NORDO aircraft (This means a lost communication aircraft in their airspace. Air traffic control sees the aircraft on their scope but the aircraft is considered "lost".)

Tim told me he heard ATC chatter on the speaker and so never thought they were out of radio range.....but, of course, they were hearing pilots talk on Winnipeg Center . (When pilots hear only silence on the radio for a long while they will ask ATC if they are still there. Most of the time they are but if you don't hear any response you are out of their area and need to find a new frequency. This is very uncommon. With this chatter going on, it appears they were not concerned that they were not being controlled).

Then Tim told the first officer that the new bidding system was horrible and that his November schedule was not what he hoped for. He mentioned that his son was going into the Army in December and he wanted certain days off so he could see him off. The first officer said he could help him, he knew more about the new bidding system. Tim got his lap top out and put it on his left leg and showed the first officer how he bid. He told me he had his laptop out for maybe 2 minutes. Then the first officer said that he would show him how to do it on his laptop. He had his laptop out maximum of 5 minutes.

The flight attendants called the cockpit on the inter-phone and asked when they will arrive. They looked at their navigational screens and were directly over MSP. The pilots had their scopes on the maximum 320 mile range setting, when the first officer called on the frequency, which of course was Winnipeg Center. He saw Eau Claire and Duluth on his screen 320 miles away. They asked where they were and the first officer told them over Eau Claire , which was not even close, but MSP had disappeared from the screen even though they were right over the city because of the 320 mile setting. ( There really is no way to confuse the 320 mile scope setting vs. a 20, 40, 80, or even the 120 mile setting. I don't understand the pilots stating this.)

They were, as you all know, vectored all over the sky to determine if they had control of the aircraft and Tim kept telling the first officer to tell them they have control they want to land at MSP. They landed with 11,000 pounds of fuel (about 2 hours in an A320) and about 15 minutes past schedule, even though they left San Diego 35 minutes late due to an ATC flow restriction.

 

[Redls1bird]

I think the internal breifings to the pilots wered a little more comprehensive than what the news got... remember, news needs spin to keep people interested.

 

[Erich_F]

Pilot25, that was very insightful! I knew for a fact that ATC shared in the whole fiasco. Obviously, there was no safety of flight issues, with 2 hours fuel on board, and only 15 minutes late at the end. Total drop on both ends regarding freq change procedures, especially on the controller side for not reporting and elevating a NORDO aircraft. Duh!

But, it's ultimately up to the aircrew to know where the heck they are, regardless of communications. I wonder what they had programmed into the FMS that didn't make the autopilot do weird things upon arriving over MSP? Perhaps just set to Alt/Hdg?