So, I guess VZW can terminate our service for modding our phones?

[Dave12308]

I was just reading over my customer agreement for the heck of it, and I noticed something very curious in the following section:

What Are Verizon Wireless' Rights to Limit or End Service or End this Agreement?
We can, without notice, limit, suspend or end your Service or any agreement with you for any good cause, including, but not limited to: (1) if you: (a) breach this agreement; (b) resell your Service; (c) use your Service for any illegal purpose, including use that violates trade and economic sanctions and prohibitions promulgated by any U.S. governmental agency; (d) install, deploy or use any regeneration equipment or similar mechanism (for example, a repeater) to originate, amplify, enhance, retransmit or regenerate an RF signal without our permission; (e) steal from or lie to us; or, if you're a Postpay customer, (f) do not pay your bill on time; (g) incur charges larger than a required deposit or billing limit, or materially in excess of your monthly access charges (even if we haven't yet billed the charges); (h) provide credit information we can't verify; or (i) are unable to pay us or go bankrupt; or (2) if you, any user of your device or any line of service on your account, or any account manager on your account: (a) threaten, harass, or use vulgar and/or inappropriate language toward our representatives; (b) interfere with our operations; (c) "spam," or engage in other abusive messaging or calling; (d) modify your device from its manufacturer's specifications; or (e) use your Service in a way that negatively affects our network or other customers. We can also temporarily limit your Service for any operational or governmental reason.

Note the bolded, underlined section (2)(d). I guess Motorola's resistance to offer us an unlocked bootloader really IS due to carrier demands. I am surprised other manufacturers offer it, to be honest. With provisions like this directly in the contract, I am surprised they even got the GNex. With that phone, it would seem that VZW could cancel your service for using the device the way it is designed to be used; since it's technically a developer's phone.

Also, if you'll notice section (1)(e), that's the part where they can get you for illegal tethering and also returning a device under false pretenses. Even if you THINK tethering SHOULD be included, it's not. So it's stealing.

 

[pc747]

Only problem is vzw has employees who mod. If you buy your device you have the right to do what you want with it. Now the consequences is also on you if you brick it.

 

[syndicate0017]

I believe it was held up in court that modifying your device is completely legal and you can't have your service terminated for it. The only thing you can get in trouble for is what you do AFTER you modify it. If your modifications are for illicit behavior, then they can get you. I believe tethering would fall into that category. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[*22899]

I wish they would, Then I'd have a Rezound, Nexus, Droid X, and og droid with out a contract! They don't have the stones to start that type of stiff arming.

 

[jsan2727]

What Are Verizon Wireless' Rights to Limit or End Service or End this Agreement?
We can, without notice, limit, suspend or end your Service or any agreement with you for any good cause, including, but not limited to: (1) if you: (a) breach this agreement; (b) resell your Service; (c) use your Service for any illegal purpose, including use that violates trade and economic sanctions and prohibitions promulgated by any U.S. governmental agency; (d) install, deploy or use any regeneration equipment or similar mechanism (for example, a repeater) to originate, amplify, enhance, retransmit or regenerate an RF signal without our permission; (e) steal from or lie to us; or, if you're a Postpay customer, (f) do not pay your bill on time; (g) incur charges larger than a required deposit or billing limit, or materially in excess of your monthly access charges (even if we haven't yet billed the charges); (h) provide credit information we can't verify; or (i) are unable to pay us or go bankrupt; or (2) if you, any user of your device or any line of service on your account, or any account manager on your account: (a) threaten, harass, or use vulgar and/or inappropriate language toward our representatives; (b) interfere with our operations; (c) "spam," or engage in other abusive messaging or calling; (d) modify your device from its manufacturer's specifications; or (e) use your Service in a way that negatively affects our network or other customers. We can also temporarily limit your Service for any operational or governmental reason.


I noticed that you did not highlight the part about stealing, so i did. It does not say anything about tethering, if that was the issue wouldn't they get VERY specific about it?

 

[Einsteindks]

I don't see theming, rooting or clocking a device as 'moding'. Manufacturer's specs deal with the hardware, not software. A Corvette is still a Corvette, but will perform differently if you put Granny or Al Under Jr at the wheel.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using DroidForums

 

[Dave12308]

I noticed that you did not highlight the part about stealing, so i did. It does not say anything about tethering, if that was the issue wouldn't they get VERY specific about it?

Well, aside from stealing services from them, or physically walking into a store and stealing a device; there aren't a whole lot of other ways to steal from them. Wireless tethering is offered as a paid add-on, so circumventing that fee IS stealing. I never said I agreed with it, I don't think anything that uses your data plan that you already pay for should require an extra fee. But the fact is, if they catch you AND if they actually care enough to do anything about it, it could result in termination of your contract.

 

[Dave12308]

Only problem is vzw has employees who mod. If you buy your device you have the right to do what you want with it. Now the consequences is also on you if you brick it.

See, the thing is it's their network, so they can tell you what you can and cannot run on it. A simple custom ROM doesn't fundamentally change the way the device works with the network, but something like a Cheescake "ROM" which actually changes the baseband code does. My opinion is that most of the people that would notice this sort of thing probably don't care, my point was that I simply noticed this in the TOS and figured that if they wanted to take the time to lose a paying customer over something fundamentally harmless, they technically could.

 

[DunDun]

Hmm... (c) "spam," or engage in other abusive messaging or calling.... (d) modify your device from its manufacturer's specifications

So tweeting (via my Bionic) that VZW's idea of charging two dollars for paying my bill via phone or online with a credit card could cause me to have my service cut?

or

That the locked bootloaders infringes on my freedom as an American, and that using a contract to withhold my constitutional rights is un American and evil! lol

 

[jsan2727]

See, the thing is it's their network, so they can tell you what you can and cannot run on it. A simple custom ROM doesn't fundamentally change the way the device works with the network, but something like a Cheescake "ROM" which actually changes the baseband code does. My opinion is that most of the people that would notice this sort of thing probably don't care, my point was that I simply noticed this in the TOS and figured that if they wanted to take the time to lose a paying customer over something fundamentally harmless, they technically could.

I agree with the highlighted part of what you said, but SHOW me in the TOS where is says NOT to tether. It doesn't say it anywhere. They have the ability to word it in such a way that it would be very clear. I believe my point still stands, they have not included it(yet).

 

[Arodnum1]

I don't see theming, rooting or clocking a device as 'moding'. Manufacturer's specs deal with the hardware, not software. A Corvette is still a Corvette, but will perform differently if you put Granny or Al Under Jr at the wheel.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using DroidForums

Yes, so give your grandma your phone, then your analogy works, it would be more like swapping the 6L engine for a 7L engine, your actually modifying the car itself, not the operator

Sent from my DROID RAZR using DroidForums

 

[Aceunderfire]

Yes, so give your grandma your phone, then your analogy works, it would be more like swapping the 6L engine for a 7L engine, your actually modifying the car itself, not the operator

Sent from my DROID RAZR using DroidForums

Yes but once you buy a Corvette you have the right to mod it in any way you deem and it's still a vette. Even if you are paying on it. That is your right. If you lease the car that is another. Story. We Buy These phones not lease them. Why do they care anyway we buy a new device but if we exchange it under warranty we get a refurbished. That really don't make sense.

Sent from my DROID3 using DroidForums

 

[Arodnum1]

Yes but once you buy a Corvette you have the right to mod it in any way you deem and it's still a vette. Even if you are paying on it. That is your right. If you lease the car that is another. Story. We Buy These phones not lease them. Why do they care anyway we buy a new device but if we exchange it under warranty we get a refurbished. That really don't make sense.

Sent from my DROID3 using DroidForums

Throw an aftermarket suspension on your Corvette, garuntee you the warranty is gone, try the exhaust, same thing, i'm not arguing that its a good practice, it shouldn't be like that, but you have to see where the company is coming from

Sent from my DROID RAZR using DroidForums

 

[oldguy]

Tethering is not stealing. I pay for more bandwidth and minutes than I ever use. USB tethering is activated free in a stock Bionic. WIFI hotspot isn't. VZW charges for the service of activating the hotspot--not for any other service that they perform. They make it difficult for users to perform that simple service for ourselves by locking down a device that we pay full price for. If I perform that service for myself it is like generating my own electricity or wiring my own water heater. It is certainly not theft. Their infrastructure and their labor perform no additional services because of my action than what I have already overpaid for. The reason they don't cut your service is because they know that charging you twenty bucks a month for flipping a switch so you can use bandwidth you already paid for will look to a jury more like the real definition of theft. The real theft of services is not refunding me for unused bandwidth and minutes that I prepaid.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using DroidForums

 

[jcwilliams]

Tethering is not stealing. I pay for more bandwidth and minutes than I ever use. USB tethering is activated free in a stock Bionic. WIFI hotspot isn't. VZW charges for the service of activating the hotspot--not for any other service that they perform. They make it difficult for users to perform that simple service for ourselves by locking down a device that we pay full price for. If I perform that service for myself it is like generating my own electricity or wiring my own water heater. It is certainly not theft. Their infrastructure and their labor perform no additional services because of my action than what I have already overpaid for. The reason they don't cut your service is because they know that charging you twenty bucks a month for flipping a switch so you can use bandwidth you already paid for will look to a jury more like the real definition of theft. The real theft of services is not refunding me for unused bandwidth and minutes that I prepaid.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using DroidForums

Agreed!