How do you get by without a task killer?

mikes

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What's really irking me right now: The following services are running
GTalkService - I have GTalk set to not auto log in, and I NEVER WANT TO USE IT.
Google Voice CallLogService and UpdateService - I have Voice set to NEVER check for updates and I only want to use it when I receive an SMS saying I have a VM. I don't want it running services.
So, it "irks you" to see them there, even though they're not doing anything, not consuming battery or resources? I'm sure they're taunting you.

If the OS needs the memory for something else, it will take it. From the Android docs:

Android may decide to shut down a process at some point, when memory is low and required by other processes that are more immediately serving the user. Application components running in the process are consequently destroyed. A process is restarted for those components when there's again work for them to do...The Android system tries to maintain an application process for as long as possible, but eventually it will need to remove old processes when memory runs low. To determine which processes to keep and which to kill, Android places each process into an "importance hierarchy" based on the components running in it and the state of those components. Processes with the lowest importance are eliminated first, then those with the next lowest, and so on.
 

natty_lite

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Just because the apps are listed within your task manager does not mean its actively using resources. You'll notice quite often that some processes will say "empty" as supposed to background. Using the back button to get to your homepage usually does the trick.

To test out what I'm talking about, load up an app that has a splash screen upon opening. Hit the home button, then reopen it, and it will open instantly. Open the app again, but go back to the homescreen using the back button, then load it again, and you'll notice that the splash screen will reload. Those apps may still appear on your task list after hitting back, but they're not actively running.

I've never even did a market search for a task manager since I've had the phone. If there is something I REALLY need to close, then I just use the task list within Astro.
 

porcelain

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I've only had the Droid for a little over a week now. I've had some sort of app killer this whole time, only because prior to receiving the phone, I read recommendations of downloading Advanced Task Killer. I got rid of that the other day and have Advanced Task Manager now, though I'm contemplating just getting rid of it after reading all these threads of how the app killers are unnecessary.

My phone has not been running slow at all. The only reason I used ATK and ATM was because I figured I didn't need these apps running all day long. For instance, I have Twidroid and Weatherbug. The two update constantly throughout the day. I think it's just easier to open the app when I need it, and that's that.

However, if I don't have an app killer, those two apps in particular run all day. Nothing else stops them. I can't go into Running Services and turn them off.
 

natty_lite

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I've only had the Droid for a little over a week now. I've had some sort of app killer this whole time, only because prior to receiving the phone, I read recommendations of downloading Advanced Task Killer. I got rid of that the other day and have Advanced Task Manager now, though I'm contemplating just getting rid of it after reading all these threads of how the app killers are unnecessary.

My phone has not been running slow at all. The only reason I used ATK and ATM was because I figured I didn't need these apps running all day long. For instance, I have Twidroid and Weatherbug. The two update constantly throughout the day. I think it's just easier to open the app when I need it, and that's that.

However, if I don't have an app killer, those two apps in particular run all day. Nothing else stops them. I can't go into Running Services and turn them off.
Just tell Twidroid and Weatherbug to stop auto updating within the settings menu. I haven't used WB in awhile, but I know Twidroid has an option for background updates that you can uncheck and that will put an end to that.
 

jsh1120

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Just because the apps are listed within your task manager does not mean its actively using resources. You'll notice quite often that some processes will say "empty" as supposed to background. Using the back button to get to your homepage usually does the trick.

To test out what I'm talking about, load up an app that has a splash screen upon opening. Hit the home button, then reopen it, and it will open instantly. Open the app again, but go back to the homescreen using the back button, then load it again, and you'll notice that the splash screen will reload. Those apps may still appear on your task list after hitting back, but they're not actively running.

I've never even did a market search for a task manager since I've had the phone. If there is something I REALLY need to close, then I just use the task list within Astro.

You're absolutely correct that a program being resident "in memory" doesn't mean it is using resources, i.e. "running." The architecture of a multitasking operating system like "android" is such that programs need not be flushed from memory to prevent them from "running."

I think much of the confusion over this issue is that many folks simply don't understand that basic feature of a multitasking o/s.

I have only one quibble with your comments (and it's a small one.) I have "advanced task manager" on my phone for two reasons. First, since the Android "Market" is virtually unregulated, it's always possible to download a badly designed application that grabs cpu cycles (i.e. "runs") when it shouldn't. The ATM app is useful for identifying such applications (though the same information can be found without it, including using Astro for that and other purposes.)

Second, for purely educational purposes it's interesting to see what is going on "under the covers." I don't kid myself that I can make better decisions about managing memory than the o/s, but it's often interesting to see just what is going on down there. ATM provides a pretty user-friendly view of those processes.
 

ShowTime

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I think this whole debate is somewhat pointless. It's just like the "rice as a cure for wet phone" debate (which I posted about in another thread and won't re-post here). Many of those who use task killers swear by them, with no way of empirically supporting their usefulness. It is based nearly entirely on perceived difference, and subjective definitions of "faster" and "slower". If you insist on using one, fine, but don't tout them as a necessity to others.

Also, isn't the only real difference between the task killers people download, and the one that comes on the phone (menu > settings > applications > running services), the fact that the market ones auto kill apps, as opposed to having to manually click through the menus and kill apps at will? Are people really that lazy?
 

natty_lite

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You're absolutely correct that a program being resident "in memory" doesn't mean it is using resources, i.e. "running." The architecture of a multitasking operating system like "android" is such that programs need not be flushed from memory to prevent them from "running."

I think much of the confusion over this issue is that many folks simply don't understand that basic feature of a multitasking o/s.

I have only one quibble with your comments (and it's a small one.) I have "advanced task manager" on my phone for two reasons. First, since the Android "Market" is virtually unregulated, it's always possible to download a badly designed application that grabs cpu cycles (i.e. "runs") when it shouldn't. The ATM app is useful for identifying such applications (though the same information can be found without it, including using Astro for that and other purposes.)

Second, for purely educational purposes it's interesting to see what is going on "under the covers." I don't kid myself that I can make better decisions about managing memory than the o/s, but it's often interesting to see just what is going on down there. ATM provides a pretty user-friendly view of those processes.

I agree. I use Astro, so that at least means I have some need for a task killer. Some people take their crusade too far though, and assume their phone will run like crap w/o one.

slightly OT: but I've read a couple of reviews on the Pre, about how "awesome" it is at managing task versus how "awful" Android does without downloading a 3rd party application. I'm no Linux expert, but its not that hard to do a little research and see that there is a distinct difference between "empty" processes and "background" processes.
 

johall07

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dunno if it was said but i use auto killer (root) it uses the built in task killer and you can set it to how "aggresive" you want it to be
 

jmart8684

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Personally. I came to the conclusion that task killers are just pointless. Turning GPS. WIFI, and the brightness down when not needed is more efficient at saving the battery. Also, coming from the Storn 9530, which was terrible with memory management, all it did was keep my obsession with closing out apps, keeping and eye on the battery, rebooting the phone, battey pulls, etc. I also just recenty reinstalled Advanced Task Killer, and noticed some of the apps I opened closed themselves out.
During use, I havent noticed any slowing down or lag when just letting whatever is opened run.
On a side note, cereal killer, good to see you as a mod on here. Your posts on the Storm forums were pretty damn entertaining.
 
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qoncept

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What's really irking me right now: The following services are running
GTalkService - I have GTalk set to not auto log in, and I NEVER WANT TO USE IT.
Google Voice CallLogService and UpdateService - I have Voice set to NEVER check for updates and I only want to use it when I receive an SMS saying I have a VM. I don't want it running services.
So, it "irks you" to see them there, even though they're not doing anything, not consuming battery or resources? I'm sure they're taunting you.

If the OS needs the memory for something else, it will take it. From the Android docs:
If you'll continue reading, I understand the docs (just like I understand Java's Garbage Collector). Theory and the real world aren't the same thing.

As I said, the phone is still slow. Those are the only processing running that I can look at and say "that doesn't make sense." So you think I should sit around and be happy with my phone when it's not running as fast as it should because you and the Android documentation says "yeah, we're handling the resources" ?

I agree. I use Astro, so that at least means I have some need for a task killer. Some people take their crusade too far though, and assume their phone will run like crap w/o one.
Push the back button a bunch of times. When it gets back to where it started, it'll say "Click back once more to exit"
 

BayouFlyFisher

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As I said, the phone is still slow. Those are the only processing running that I can look at and say "that doesn't make sense." So you think I should sit around and be happy with my phone when it's not running as fast as it should because you and the Android documentation says "yeah, we're handling the resources" ?

I would like to make two points: And I apologize if this is rehashing stuff already covered in this thread. I tried to go back and read all these pages, but it just made me feel OLD and TIRED. So I stopped reading.

1) Part of your problem, it seems to me, is semantics. Those apps are not "running". They are loaded in memory and Dormant.

2) I wonder if your reception of your phone's speed is totally accurate. I mean it seems to be very subjective. Try this: menu/settings/Sound&Display/Animations/ and select No Animations. You will see your screen snap from one to the other. You may loose interest in your task killer then as your phone will seem "faster".

There is no point in continuing this thread because no matter the logic your answer is always "my phone feels faster/slower". I do have one more non-serious question: When was the last time you had your eyes calibrated?? :):)
 
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qoncept

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I don't think the problem is semantics. The problem is telling me what should be happening and ignoring what really is. The phone is slower. Yes, screen animations are slower, but the clearest indicator of all, Robo Defense, runs slower unless I kill tasks.

I didn't ask "YOU GOTTA HAVE A TASK KILLER!" I asked how to get by without one. I've had a few suggestions, which I've tried (and have helped to an extent), but mostly what I've gotten is a bunch of replies telling me not to worry about running processes. Or apps loaded in to memory. If there wasn't something slowing the phone down I wouldn't be asking.
 

crspang

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I have Advanced Task Killer installed and I use and I think it is a necessary app for me. BUT it is only necessary in that I use it to kill an unruly app every now and then. I don't have any kind of auto kill feature and the ignore list is long!

These are the items in the ignore list:
AudioManager
AppsOrganizer
Advanced Task Killer Free
Alarm Clock
Voice Dialer
Pure Grid calendar widget
Settings
Battery Left
Flip Clock
News and Weather
Messaging
SetCPU
Corporate Calendar
Voice Search
RingGuard
Gmail
Google Voice

I don't use all those apps ie Google Voice and Corporate Calendar but it doesn't make much sense to kill those as they don't slow anything down.

My personal opinion is that if I were to kill those apps in my ignore list then my phone would run slower! Because every time I wanted to use one I would have to wait on it to load rather than having it lying in suspended animation.

So I guess my point is that I think task killers are necessary but only occasionally.
 

rkeller62

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I didn't ask "YOU GOTTA HAVE A TASK KILLER!" I asked how to get by without one.
Your answer:
Just fine, thank you very much.

My Question:
Why do you care?? You obviously feel that you MUST have a task killer. Obviously no one is going to change you mind with regard to that. Personally, I don't care if you use on or not so why do you care if I don't?
 

natty_lite

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I agree. I use Astro, so that at least means I have some need for a task killer. Some people take their crusade too far though, and assume their phone will run like crap w/o one.
Push the back button a bunch of times. When it gets back to where it started, it'll say "Click back once more to exit"

I'm not understanding what you're supposed to be informing me of. I was referring to Astro's built in task manager within its tools menu.
 
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