What was once lost, just was found!

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So I've had a Thunderbolt since day 1 and happened to lose it a few months back. I went to a Verizon store and they replaced it with a fee since I had insurance. Just last night I found the original phone, some how it fell behind a storage bin in my garage. Since I reported the phone as lost, do I have to return this phone to Verizon? I'd like to just throw another sim into it since I have another contracted sim card and just use it as a tether device for work. I'd hate to have any issues with my plan for them thinking I scammed the system or something to get a second phone.

Thoughts?
 

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Its yours since you paid the insurance. But the ESN is bad on it and cannot be activated. You can use it as an mp3 player or use it on wifi though

random rom'd X
 

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you either have a nice paperweight or a nice multimedia device. :)
 
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Its yours since you paid the insurance. But the ESN is bad on it and cannot be activated. You can use it as an mp3 player or use it on wifi though

random rom'd X

So even though I'll be throwing a new SIM into the phone it will not register? There's gotta be a way around that...

EDIT:
So since I legitimately own the phone could I copy an ESN say from my old Droid X over to it? I own both phones legally, so In theory I have the right to modify my own property, no? As long as I'm in possession of both phones there shouldn't be a problem. I could be wrong.
 
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dezymond

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So even though I'll be throwing a new SIM into the phone it will not register? There's gotta be a way around that...

EDIT:
So since I legitimately own the phone could I copy an ESN say from my old Droid X over to it? I own both phones legally, so In theory I have the right to modify my own property, no? As long as I'm in possession of both phones there shouldn't be a problem. I could be wrong.

Modify the phone however you want, but i believe the ESN is with Verizon's systems and that is something you can't modify....

edit: then again I don't know if ESN is related to the model of the phone though...
 
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Modify the phone however you want, but i believe the ESN is with Verizon's systems and that is something you can't modify....

But isn't the ESN "Electronic", which means that it's only a stored value? With that it seems that it is a digital value that can be hopped?
 

dezymond

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But isn't the ESN "Electronic", which means that it's only a stored value? With that it seems that it is a digital value that can be hopped?

i just realized that...big ol' brain fart right there -_-. Lack of sleep is sure taking its toll right now....

I think you can register your ESN online so your method should work...

haha sorry for the confusion if any, i know i confused myself :redface:
 

garrett

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So since I legitimately own the phone could I copy an ESN say from my old Droid X over to it? I own both phones legally, so In theory I have the right to modify my own property, no? As long as I'm in possession of both phones there shouldn't be a problem. I could be wrong.


even if you rightfully own both phones it is still a federal offense to tamper with a device ESN number.
 

garrett

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Its not illegal to change the ESN, its illegal to do it for a monetary gain
esn change legality? - xda-developers


okay let me rephrase my previous statement. It is illegal for an individual to change the ESN. A carrier can change the ESN only after they submit the information to the FCC for approval.


not to mention Verizon also checks the that ESN against the serial number in their database. If both numbers don't match they wont allow the phone to be used on their network.
 

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Hey I don't understand all that legal crap in that thread, all I read was it wasn't illegal for an individual to change the ESN, but then as I read further, seems like its a gray area that could go either way.
But then wait, where does it say its illegal to swap the ESN of a phone? Actually just wondering because it seems like they never found a clear cut law that says it is.
 

garrett

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Hey I don't understand all that legal crap in that thread, all I read was it wasn't illegal for an individual to change the ESN, but then as I read further, seems like its a gray area that could go either way.
But then wait, where does it say its illegal to swap the ESN of a phone? Actually just wondering because it seems like they never found a clear cut law that says it is.


that's the issue with just about any law. There written in such a way that they can be interpreted in many ways thus leaving a large grey area. This is what the FCC states

FCC said:
Cellular fraud is defined as the unauthorized use, tampering or manipulation of a cellular phone or service.

The Commission considers any knowing use of cellular telephone with an altered ESN to be a violation of the Communications Act (Section 301) and alteration of the ESN in a cellular telephone to be assisting in such violation. The Wireless Telephone Protection Act (Public Law 105-172) was signed into law on April 24, 1998, expanding the prior law to criminalize the use, possession, manufacture or sale of cloning hardware or software. The cellular equipment manufacturing industry has deployed authentication systems that have proven to be a very effective countermeasure to cloning
 
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that's the issue with just about any law. There written in such a way that they can be interpreted in many ways thus leaving a large grey area. This is what the FCC states
That doesn't apply anymore
Horace said:
Here's a post from another board:

http://cdmagurus.com/forum/showthrea...ll=1#post13737


The FCC just returned my call and I spoke with a law clerk in the mobility division of the FCC. Here is what was discussed:

I gave them the web address and verbiage for the following statement: "The Commission considers any knowing use of cellular telephone with an altered ESN to be a violation of the Communications Act (Section 301) and alteration of the ESN in a cellular telephone to be assisting in such violation." (see:http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind..._3&id=cellular). They did some research to see if it still applies.

The answer he came back with is that the website is out of date and that statement no longer applies. They are submitting an order to take the page down from their website. This was out of date as of 9/24/2002 in conjunction with the NPRM that I previously referred to.

The clerk advised me that the NPRM took them out of the business of rulemaking with regard to ESN’s because the new federal statute provided sufficient protection. Newly developed fraud protection methods and smart card technology made the rules unnecessary.

The only law that applies now is Title 18 U.S.C. Section 1029: (see: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/71...9----000-.html). If you are going to change an ESN, read it in its entirety and be familiar with it.

With regard to 1029.a.1 in order to be in violation of the statute, you have to satisfy all of the following;
1) Use a counterfeit access device
2) Do it knowingly
3) Do it with the intent to defraud

...


ESN swapping, if not done with the intent to defraud, is not illegal. If I buy a Verizon Iphone, pay full price, and swap the ESN with my Evo 4G so I can use the Iphone on sprint, there is no intent to defraud.
So isn't it no longer Illegal? Unless the FCC representative was incorrect..
 

garrett

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I find it really hard to believe that a law that has been null and void since 2002 (9 years) would still be on their official website.

I know our government works slower then a turtle walking uphill through a pool of peanut butter but this would be a new slow for even them.
 
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