Why so much invective against Apple products?

[AllForNaught]

Why so much invective against Apple products? An opinion from an open market proponent, and the 'more choice is better' philosophy...

As long as there's other options, I don't care what cRapple does. Why do I call them that? It's disdain for their corporate culture, which is wrapped up in proprietary technology specific to their devices.

If not for this shared 'disdain' for such a corporate philosophy (and the success of more 'open source' philosophies), the fear is: that they might 'win.'

By 'win' I mean: every company adopting a proprietary corporate model, where you're forced to buy specific accessories, or adhere to specific corporate 'plans' for individual products.

Examples: Sony's proprietary memory sticks/speaker cables/batteries. It forces you to buy from a non-competitive market, because if you buy Sony, you HAVE to adhere to these mandates - you lose the 3rd party market of SD Cards, cables, and batteries, and are generally forced to pay a higher price, not to mention the inconvienience of finding specific dealers for proprietary accessories.

Apple operates much the same way.

Apple is also in the habit of aquiescing to first party loyalties: like the inital exclusive AT&T deal. More limitations on consumer choice: in this case, your service provider.

I could yammer on about the strict iOs, and other functionality, but the point is this:

It's not so much Apple the free market educated rally against, it's the corporate culture and policy of restricting choice, and shrinking markets that rubs myself and others the wrong way.

If it weren't for us... this philosophy could potentially 'win', which in the end costs every consumer more money, more choice, and more freedom un general.

Interested parties might want to delve into how corporate megolith Monsanto was able to gain nearly 100% of the soy bean market through patents, and lawsuits to get an idea just how such a corporate philosophy can control a given market, and destroy competition. It's not a bad analogue for Apple's similar attempts in the electronics market.

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[WilfulHippo]

Well with the iPhone I see it as very closed minded just the way they do things. If you are familiar with jailbreaking Jay Freeman who created cydia a debian market system kinda rerevolutionized the way iPhone is looked at it made iPhone more open minded and allowed me, a developer to publish my apps for free by my own repository linked to that market unlike with the iPhone app market where you pay 100$ for a right to publish and have your apps critiqued and rejected if it does not meet there wants and needs in there aryian like market they try to achieve but that is just my 2 cents. Does anyone else see this way?

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[PolyOlefin]

On a pro-Android site, you're likely to get a lot of reasons... here are mine.

Apple uses their own proprietary version of Torx screws on their products to prevent consumers from getting into their devices. This means you can't replace the battery on your own; nor can you replace the micro SD cards to increase your capacity (partly so Apple can create the illusion of a tiered pricing structure). You can buy these custom screwdrivers online, but you can bet Apple isn't happy about it.

Apple is one of the most litigious tech companies; in all fairness, they have done a great deal to spearhead existing tech to better fit consumer needs (especially on the tablet front), though I wouldn't go so far as to say all their patents are "innovative". Both Google and Apple (heck, ALL large companies) have ignored patents to further their business, though both Fandroids and Mactards refuse to admit it.

Unlike Microsoft, Apple isn't suing Android manufacturers to get licensing money... they're suing to prevent other companies from selling competing devices. More than words, this anti-competitive behavior shows how bitter and afraid they are of Android's growth, despite their bragging about how iOS is a superior platform.

Particularly disgusting, considering how Apple used to be the underdog, and has now become the litigious behemoth they used to stand against.

One more reason: Google has been coaxing its partners into unlocking their phones for custom firmware development, and many have agreed. By contrast, Apple threatens to sue jailbreakers to the fullest extent of the law.

I think Apple's staff is 50% engineers, 50% lawyers.

 

[WilfulHippo]

I think Apple's staff is 50% engineers, 50% lawyers.

More like 5% Steve jobs minions 95% clowns

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[AllForNaught]

This is a good discussion so far!

I was getting disgruntled with the notion by some that these are simple 'fanboy' arguments - for many of us that's just not the case.

I don't care WHOSE name is on the device - as long it's good quality, and it provides the maximum choice and options for my uses, and isn't derivative of a corporate culture that seeks to inhibit said options, as well as raise my costs to benefit from it.

I want my device to be as open to developmental exlporation and personal use as much as possible.

The sorts of litigation Apple is involved in seek to threaten that.

I'm all for companies wanting to protect, and profit from their products, intellectual and otherwise, but there's a point when it either becomes counterproductive, or worse: it 'wins', or corners a specific market in a way that everyone loses.

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[riko540]

On a pro-Android site, you're likely to get a lot of reasons... here are mine.

Apple uses their own proprietary version of Torx screws on their products to prevent consumers from getting into their devices. This means you can't replace the battery on your own; nor can you replace the micro SD cards to increase your capacity (partly so Apple can create the illusion of a tiered pricing structure). You can buy these custom screwdrivers online, but you can bet Apple isn't happy about it.

Apple is one of the most litigious tech companies; in all fairness, they have done a great deal to spearhead existing tech to better fit consumer needs (especially on the tablet front), though I wouldn't go so far as to say all their patents are "innovative". Both Google and Apple (heck, ALL large companies) have ignored patents to further their business, though both Fandroids and Mactards refuse to admit it.

Unlike Microsoft, Apple isn't suing Android manufacturers to get licensing money... they're suing to prevent other companies from selling competing devices. More than words, this anti-competitive behavior shows how bitter and afraid they are of Android's growth, despite their bragging about how iOS is a superior platform.

Particularly disgusting, considering how Apple used to be the underdog, and has now become the litigious behemoth they used to stand against.

One more reason: Google has been coaxing its partners into unlocking their phones for custom firmware development, and many have agreed. By contrast, Apple threatens to sue jailbreakers to the fullest extent of the law.

I think Apple's staff is 50% engineers, 50% lawyers.

My opinion is pretty much the same as this. I swear just about everyday I read something in the new about Apple suing another company for patent infringements. I could see if they just wanted money but they want the said devices banned from the country. Come on now who in their right mind does that!?

 

[DroidXDoes4G]

On a pro-Android site, you're likely to get a lot of reasons... here are mine.

Apple uses their own proprietary version of Torx screws on their products to prevent consumers from getting into their devices. This means you can't replace the battery on your own; nor can you replace the micro SD cards to increase your capacity (partly so Apple can create the illusion of a tiered pricing structure). You can buy these custom screwdrivers online, but you can bet Apple isn't happy about it.

Apple is one of the most litigious tech companies; in all fairness, they have done a great deal to spearhead existing tech to better fit consumer needs (especially on the tablet front), though I wouldn't go so far as to say all their patents are "innovative". Both Google and Apple (heck, ALL large companies) have ignored patents to further their business, though both Fandroids and Mactards refuse to admit it.

Unlike Microsoft, Apple isn't suing Android manufacturers to get licensing money... they're suing to prevent other companies from selling competing devices. More than words, this anti-competitive behavior shows how bitter and afraid they are of Android's growth, despite their bragging about how iOS is a superior platform.

Particularly disgusting, considering how Apple used to be the underdog, and has now become the litigious behemoth they used to stand against.

One more reason: Google has been coaxing its partners into unlocking their phones for custom firmware development, and many have agreed. By contrast, Apple threatens to sue jailbreakers to the fullest extent of the law.

I think Apple's staff is 50% engineers, 50% lawyers.

My opinion is pretty much the same as this. I swear just about everyday I read something in the new about Apple suing another company for patent infringements. I could see if they just wanted money but they want the said devices banned from the country. Come on now who in their right mind does that!?

Apple needs to eliminate their competition. Instead of beating them with a better product, Apples way is to try to stop them from being able to sell in the US.

I just lost that tiny bit of respect i had for them.

 

[AllForNaught]

I agree that Apple's tech often spearheads new and exciting devices.

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[leonozug]

I dislike Apple because they seem to feel any other product out there is inferior to their product, and they are sue-happy. Google music comes out, and all of a sudden Apple says they are going to revolutionize things with cloud based music applications and they seem to think like it's their idea. It's their smug, superior-like attitude which turns me off. Plus, the iphone has a tiny screen, and they all look alike. Boring. I like having choices, and Android gives me just that. Apple don't.

 

[jimmyco2008]

Why do I hate Apple.... this is gonna be good:

• Used to use DRM (Digital Rights Management) so that songs purchased from the iTunes Store could only be played in iTunes or on an iPod
• When DRM was finally elimiated, Apple charged (and contiunes to charge) their loyal fanbase extra money to upgrade the DRM 128 bit songs they had purchased to DRM-free 256 bit. Basically charged extra to get freedom of music you already owned.
• Apple products are primarily made via a company called Foxconn, whose factories in Asia are in such poor condition that workers die (suicide as well as safety accidents) virtually every day.
• Foxconn tries to hid the illegal and insane working conditions like a conspiracy, though Google it, some people snuck cameras in, etc etc.
• Apple purposely forces their loyal fanbase to purchase upgraded-generation iPod Touches and iPhones, as software updates they distrubuted to older models make the devices practically unusable (Google that too, there was a lawsuit) via extremely sluggish performance.
• Their devices lack in functionality so their loyal fanbase has no choice but to buy more Apple s***. ie, non replacable batteries, so when your device no longer holds a charge, you pay roughly half what you originally payed for the device in order to get an entirely new device- Apple doesn't even replace the battery for you, you get a whole new device...Wasteful and impractical (for the consumer of course).
• Apple clearly overprices their products- $900 for a MacBook with a like 5 year old processor. $900 can get you a laptop with the Intel i7 processor, capable of playing virtually any game out there.
• Apple makes their products easy to break (All-glass iPhone 4, REALLY?), patheitc glass screens that crack from even too much pressure from you touching it! Of course when you break your shiny new iPod Touch, say goodbye to your $200...
• Apple makes their chargers incompatable with newer iPods/iPhones, oviously so you have to give them $30-$40 for a new one.. One may think it is legit because the technology is incompatable, no, it's compatable, it's the same 10 pin connector (Google that too if you like lol)
• Using cheap visual effects to get people to spend money with them over say, fair-competing Microsoft (come on, who wouldnt want an Apple logo that lights up on the back of their laptop!? And all glass iPhones are pretty too!)
• Say, how come a song on iTunes is $1.29, but on Amazon, many are $.69? Do you really think such a price gap is the result of music labels upping their price per song with Apple?
• I find iTunes pretty sluggish at times, is it because I'm on a PC and not a Mac? Idk, but I wouldn't be suprised if Apple claimed iTunes runs better on Mac OS....
• We finally brought the iPhone to Verizon...but we didn't give it a 4G LTE radio because (now you have to buy two iPhones- one now, and one when we release the 4G version). Watch them release the 4G LTE version about when Verizon iPhone owners' contracts are up...I know that's like 1.5 years away, but it's easy to claim that "the 4G LTE network is still too new and unreliable to use with the all-powerful iPhone"....
• They like to sue other companies! And they disowned Samsung as a parter...kinda betrayal imo, especially when Sammy didnt really infringe..

I'll letcha know if I think of anything else lol

 

[PolyOlefin]

• Apple products are primarily made via a company called Foxconn, whose factories in Asia are in such poor condition that workers die (suicide as well as safety accidents) virtually every day.
• Foxconn tries to hid the illegal and insane working conditions like a conspiracy, though Google it, some people snuck cameras in, etc etc.

To be fair, many companies we buy from use Foxconn to manufacture their products... this includes companies who make Android products, too.

As per Wikipedia, some of these other companies are Acer, Asus, Amazon, Intel, Cisco, HP, Dell, Nintendo, Nokia, Microsoft, and Sony Ericsson.

In today's global free-trade economy, it's virtually impossible to purchase desirable products without dipping your toes into some morally gray areas. If you were to take a survey, a large percentage of people would agree that wages and working conditions need to be improved at these types of plants. But if you were to ask those same people if they'd be willing to pay an extra 40% for all their tech products to make this a reality, the majority would suddenly become silent. A similar argument could be made about deporting America's illegal immigrant work force, with regard to food prices.

Unfortunately, we live in a zero-sum world. If somebody wins, somebody has to lose.

 

[jroc]

Yea.. I remember when iTunes came out. The DRM thing turned me away from that years ago. I understand its not as bad or doesnt have DRM now but the damage was done...

I dont have a real problem with their products....its their business practices I dont like:

If I wanna use OS X I have to buy a Mac...not counting the Hackingtosh scenario.

The prices of Mac vs. other computers isnt worth the money IMO...especially vs. a custom built PC. Either one you build yourself or one from a site that does custom building.

That they tied the iPhone to AT&T. I wanted one but wasnt going to AT&T. My phone before the Droid 1 was so bad I thought Verizon services was going bad....turns out it was the phone. That plus the phone sucked so bad...it almost drove me to get an iPhone in 2009...I held out and get a chance to get the Droid 1....havent looked back since...

All these lawsuits are getting ridiculous.

Their responses to the iPhone 4 antenna issues probably turned away from them for good. That and if I was to one day get an iPhone it would be either an older model before the 4 or a new one if they did something totally different with the antenna.

On the proprietary front....Samsung used to do that or still do with their regular cellphones. Pissed me off royally when I had to buy specific chargers and headphones. Moto did it too with some of their regular phones. I think thats one reason why I like these smartphones...I can basically use one charger and headphone for all.

After learning some things about the iPhone....I dont know if I woulda stayed with it if I woulda got it in 2009. From the sd card, battery, customizing...I dont know. I have seen one in use. It does have some nice looking apps. But for me...I'm a function over form guy. And the iPhone doesnt "just work"...lol

Co worker was showing us some video clips of a school play. Clip froze...no FC messages but someone else got it back to the homescreen for him somehow. That combined with the iPhone troubleshooting section of macrumors tells me its just like any smartphone. It has its pros n cons...and it isnt perfect.

 

[jimmyco2008]

• Apple products are primarily made via a company called Foxconn, whose factories in Asia are in such poor condition that workers die (suicide as well as safety accidents) virtually every day.
• Foxconn tries to hid the illegal and insane working conditions like a conspiracy, though Google it, some people snuck cameras in, etc etc.

To be fair, many companies we buy from use Foxconn to manufacture their products... this includes companies who make Android products, too.

As per Wikipedia, some of these other companies are Acer, Asus, Amazon, Intel, Cisco, HP, Dell, Nintendo, Nokia, Microsoft, and Sony Ericsson.

In today's global free-trade economy, it's virtually impossible to purchase desirable products without dipping your toes into some morally gray areas. If you were to take a survey, a large percentage of people would agree that wages and working conditions need to be improved at these types of plants. But if you were to ask those same people if they'd be willing to pay an extra 40% for all their tech products to make this a reality, the majority would suddenly become silent. A similar argument could be made about deporting America's illegal immigrant work force, with regard to food prices.

Unfortunately, we live in a zero-sum world. If somebody wins, somebody has to lose.

True, I just took apart my laptop and FOXCONN was written on I forget what, but I was under the impression Foxconn actually made the iPhones, whereas say in the case of my laptop, they just make a part... I guess it's all immoral in that sense... Good quote at the end btw, relates to "you can't satisfy everyone"- both prove excellent points.

 

[jimmyco2008]

Yea.. I remember when iTunes came out. The DRM thing turned me away from that years ago. I understand its not as bad or doesnt have DRM now but the damage was done...

I dont have a real problem with their products....its their business practices I dont like:

If I wanna use OS X I have to buy a Mac...not counting the Hackingtosh scenario.

The prices of Mac vs. other computers isnt worth the money IMO...especially vs. a custom built PC. Either one you build yourself or one from a site that does custom building.

That they tied the iPhone to AT&T. I wanted one but wasnt going to AT&T. My phone before the Droid 1 was so bad I thought Verizon services was going bad....turns out it was the phone. That plus the phone sucked so bad...it almost drove me to get an iPhone in 2009...I held out and get a chance to get the Droid 1....havent looked back since...

All these lawsuits are getting ridiculous.

Their responses to the iPhone 4 antenna issues probably turned away from them for good. That and if I was to one day get an iPhone it would be either an older model before the 4 or a new one if they did something totally different with the antenna.

On the proprietary front....Samsung used to do that or still do with their regular cellphones. Pissed me off royally when I had to buy specific chargers and headphones. Moto did it too with some of their regular phones. I think thats one reason why I like these smartphones...I can basically use one charger and headphone for all.

After learning some things about the iPhone....I dont know if I woulda stayed with it if I woulda got it in 2009. From the sd card, battery, customizing...I dont know. I have seen one in use. It does have some nice looking apps. But for me...I'm a function over form guy. And the iPhone doesnt "just work"...lol

Co worker was showing us some video clips of a school play. Clip froze...no FC messages but someone else got it back to the homescreen for him somehow. That combined with the iPhone troubleshooting section of macrumors tells me its just like any smartphone. It has its pros n cons...and it isnt perfect.

Ugh I hated life before the Micro USB + 3.5mm standard, I think Google really helped usher that in, right? I mean Google makes manufacturers have certain components in every Android phone, I assume these include the 3.5mm headphone jack, Micro USB charging port, and of course they have to agree to support their phones for what a year or so with Android software updates?

 

[garrett]

• Apple products are primarily made via a company called Foxconn, whose factories in Asia are in such poor condition that workers die (suicide as well as safety accidents) virtually every day.
• Foxconn tries to hid the illegal and insane working conditions like a conspiracy, though Google it, some people snuck cameras in, etc etc.

To be fair, many companies we buy from use Foxconn to manufacture their products... this includes companies who make Android products, too.

As per Wikipedia, some of these other companies are Acer, Asus, Amazon, Intel, Cisco, HP, Dell, Nintendo, Nokia, Microsoft, and Sony Ericsson.

In today's global free-trade economy, it's virtually impossible to purchase desirable products without dipping your toes into some morally gray areas. If you were to take a survey, a large percentage of people would agree that wages and working conditions need to be improved at these types of plants. But if you were to ask those same people if they'd be willing to pay an extra 40% for all their tech products to make this a reality, the majority would suddenly become silent. A similar argument could be made about deporting America's illegal immigrant work force, with regard to food prices.

Unfortunately, we live in a zero-sum world. If somebody wins, somebody has to lose.

foxconn has also manufactured every Motorola Android phone too.... droid, droid 2, droid 3, dX, dX2,.....ETC
As well at most of the current HTC phones.


to be quite honest the chances of someone not having a foxconn product in their home is VERY VERY slim. They produce parts that go in just about every type of electronic device. TV's, phones, refridgerators, Air Conditioning units, microwaves, sattelite/cable boxes, gaming consoles...... the list could go on forever