Verizon Communications Reports a Dozen Cases of Sabotage as Workers Continue Strike

[SquireSCA]

Teacher's Unions have their own issues. They protect crappy teachers from getting fired. I read a news article recently that in the past 10 years, the state of NJ has only fired like a handful of teachers for poor performance. Really? 10 years in a densely populated state like NJ and you only fired 23 teachers or whatever?

Of course teachers unions have their issues; any organization representing a diverse group of individuals will. Should more teachers have been fired? Maybe, but I don't know the specifics of those cases. Teachers don't get into education because it's going to be easy or a free ride on the gravy train, unionized or not. They tend to really want to make a difference at a much lower wage than folks at their same level of education and experience make in other fields.

They are often against standardized tests, or having the teachers evaluations based on the performance of their kids test scores. Why not?

The reason they are against standardized tests is because it forces teachers to "teach to the test" - rote learning in a one-size-fits-all box. This distorts curricula and removes any possibility for tailored learning based on the students' actual needs. Further, reward-based funding based on test scores is skewed away from the schools that need money most, because they are operating at a financial disadvantage to begin with.

Dude, a recent poll showed that only about 50% of graduating high school students knew who the first US President was.

Obviously, the system isn't working. Protecting bad teachers, not using standardized tests, not having performance-based reviews and all the other things that the Unions help keep in place, isn't getting the job done.

They may be protecting teachers, but the teachers are there to educate kids. The kids are the "product", and the product today sucks.

The Status Quo, just isn't good enough.

 

[czerdrill]

Teacher's Unions have their own issues. They protect crappy teachers from getting fired. I read a news article recently that in the past 10 years, the state of NJ has only fired like a handful of teachers for poor performance. Really? 10 years in a densely populated state like NJ and you only fired 23 teachers or whatever?

Of course teachers unions have their issues; any organization representing a diverse group of individuals will. Should more teachers have been fired? Maybe, but I don't know the specifics of those cases. Teachers don't get into education because it's going to be easy or a free ride on the gravy train, unionized or not. They tend to really want to make a difference at a much lower wage than folks at their same level of education and experience make in other fields.

They are often against standardized tests, or having the teachers evaluations based on the performance of their kids test scores. Why not?

The reason they are against standardized tests is because it forces teachers to "teach to the test" - rote learning in a one-size-fits-all box. This distorts curricula and removes any possibility for tailored learning based on the students' actual needs. Further, reward-based funding based on test scores is skewed away from the schools that need money most, because they are operating at a financial disadvantage to begin with.

Dude, a recent poll showed that only about 50% of graduating high school students knew who the first US President was.

Obviously, the system isn't working. Protecting bad teachers, not using standardized tests, not having performance-based reviews and all the other things that the Unions help keep in place, isn't getting the job done.

They may be protecting teachers, but the teachers are there to educate kids. The kids are the "product", and the product today sucks.

The Status Quo, just isn't good enough.

I have no doubt that the product sucks, but that 50% stat seems unimaginably high...got a link to that study?

 

[cobjones]

@Mod
I was not personally attacking anyone, I was generalizing. Your political standing does not give you the right to close this down. Your probably just mad because most of the people on here are not buying the union crap.

@ the person who thinks teacher are higher educated.

Please give me a break. The only reason people are teachers is that it is the easiest way out of college. I have 6 people in my immediate family that are teachers ( none unionized), and they even tell me it was the easiest way out and pays good for the amount of work actually done.

Another point to that is I said most, and made a point to say that not all are uneducated.

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[jseah]

Teacher's Unions have their own issues. They protect crappy teachers from getting fired. I read a news article recently that in the past 10 years, the state of NJ has only fired like a handful of teachers for poor performance. Really? 10 years in a densely populated state like NJ and you only fired 23 teachers or whatever?

They are often against standardized tests, or having the teachers evaluations based on the performance of their kids test scores. Why not?

You want worse? Take a look at NYC teachers. Layoffs are done strictly on seniority, so a lousy teacher will keep his job over a younger teacher. They are automatically granted tenure once they have taught for three years so it is near impossible to fire them for misconduct. The NY Post did a series of articles about the NYC "rubber rooms". These are offices where teachers pulled from the classroom for misconduct are assigned to sit there all day and collect their salaries instead of teaching. Some teachers have been in those "rubber rooms" for years, doing nothing but sitting there reading the newspaper or doing crossword puzzles while collecting salaries that can go up to over $100k a year.

 

[creaky]

Teacher's Unions have their own issues. They protect crappy teachers from getting fired. I read a news article recently that in the past 10 years, the state of NJ has only fired like a handful of teachers for poor performance. Really? 10 years in a densely populated state like NJ and you only fired 23 teachers or whatever?

Of course teachers unions have their issues; any organization representing a diverse group of individuals will. Should more teachers have been fired? Maybe, but I don't know the specifics of those cases. Teachers don't get into education because it's going to be easy or a free ride on the gravy train, unionized or not. They tend to really want to make a difference at a much lower wage than folks at their same level of education and experience make in other fields.

They are often against standardized tests, or having the teachers evaluations based on the performance of their kids test scores. Why not?

The reason they are against standardized tests is because it forces teachers to "teach to the test" - rote learning in a one-size-fits-all box. This distorts curricula and removes any possibility for tailored learning based on the students' actual needs. Further, reward-based funding based on test scores is skewed away from the schools that need money most, because they are operating at a financial disadvantage to begin with.

Dude, a recent poll showed that only about 50% of graduating high school students knew who the first US President was.

Obviously, the system isn't working. Protecting bad teachers, not using standardized tests, not having performance-based reviews and all the other things that the Unions help keep in place, isn't getting the job done.

They may be protecting teachers, but the teachers are there to educate kids. The kids are the "product", and the product today sucks.

The Status Quo, just isn't good enough.

I agree with you completely that the status quo is not good enough.

If the US government - federal, state, and local - was serious about improving education in this country it would be a much higher priority. If only a fraction of what is spent on, say, defense were channeled into the school system I guarantee you we would see massive improvements. Now, throwing money at a problem is not the complete story, we need to rethink what is possible within the education system and find creative ways to encourage learning and student retention.

Unfortunately, standardized testing is not the answer. Ask any parent or teacher how well they think No Child Left Behind is working. Years after it has been introduced, no significant progress and growing frustration from educators, students, and parents.

Some bad teachers are probably protected by unions but a disproportionately high number of good teachers are as well.

Performance-based reviews go back to the problems of standardized testing: if one is teaching in a disadvantaged school the amount of learning that needs to be "made up" is so much higher than in a relatively financially stable school, that performance will be lower. Are the teachers in the South Bronx worse than those in Grosse Point? Probably not, but they are working in far different conditions with far different students.

I'm by no means saying that there should be no accountability but the systems that measure learning in the US are deeply flawed.

I don't know what the answer is, but unless the US refocuses its priorities it will continue to slide from its position as a major economic and intellectual power. I strongly believe that incentives for encouraging innovative thinkers to enter the field coupled with a structural reworking of the system that rewards both those who teach and learn would be a welcome change to all.

 

[nikecar]

Florida has the FCAT testing for students. No one likes it as teachers have to spend weeks teaching on how to take the test. I believe its given twice a year.

also, sometimes Tenure is a waste. I can tell you that there are tenured professors where I am at that cannot figure out why the computer won't turn on (unplugged from wall), or that because of their idiocy, cost the department thousands in legal costs and settlements. Cannot be touched due to tenure.

 

[ecsnead69]

Cobjones, my mother was a teacher and one of the smartest people I know... maybe those that you know are the worthless teachers that don't know how to teach? I am from the South so unions aren't as previlent here, we are taught to work hard and not rely on others to protect you! Also not too many gangsters here, we take care of them too.... I have a BS in Eng. and another in Business and I wouldn't want a teachers job. The responsibility of educating and dealing with today's youth is huge... the biggest thing that would help today's teachers is to tell parents that education is a benefit provided by the government that they are given... if you don't want to help your children learn and are good with them failing then fine, but don't pop up and say that your worthless brat can't learn because of the teacher! So kids are smart some aren't but its the ones that try that we should help... if the kids and the parents don't care, well honestly... F#@&'m, welcome to welfare and continue your burden on the real Americans ... the working, TAX PAYING, middle class!!!!!!! We are a small group, and getting smaller!

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[cobjones]

Cobjones, my mother was a teacher and one of the smartest people I know... maybe those that you know are the worthless teachers that don't know how to teach? I am from the South so unions aren't as previlent here, we are taught to work hard and not rely on others to protect you! Also not too many gangsters here, we take care of them too.... I have a BS in Eng. and another in Business and I wouldn't want a teachers job. The responsibility of educating and dealing with today's youth is huge... the biggest thing that would help today's teachers is to tell parents that education is a benefit provided by the government that they are given... if you don't want to help your children learn and are good with them failing then fine, but don't pop up and say that your worthless brat can't learn because of the teacher! So kids are smart some aren't but its the ones that try that we should help... if the kids and the parents don't care, well honestly... F#@&'m, welcome to welfare and continue your burden on the real Americans ... the working, TAX PAYING, middle class!!!!!!! We are a small group, and getting smaller!

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You made nearly all my points...

#1 you are from a nonunion area and have good teachers
#2 you have an education and don't want to teach
#3 I never said 100% of education lies on the shoulders of teachers.

I am middle class with 1 child so far. My wife stays home and takes care of him and he is far ahead of most kids. I don't think we should have government education anyways.

We should only have private schools. It would make education cheaper anyways. It cost on average 10 k a year for a general k-12 education. Teachers that can't get small things done would be fired, because the school would lose money if they teachers were awful.

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[Ladyhawke222]

I'm an outside tech and if I'm looking at this pic correctly, there is orange spray paint at the bottom of the pole. This indicates that the pole is marked for removal!! All cables, telephone, cable and electric has to be removed in order for the pole to be removed!! Tha cable is cut at the butt, going into the underground and a new route for the phone service was most likely already spliced and working!! What amazes me is there have been no interviews with customers affected by these cuts to service!! Where the he'll are they hiding?? Verizon should be beating down those neighbors in those areas with news cameras so they can voice there displeasure with losing service!!! Ghost customers, ghost sabotages!!! Very interesting!!!

 

[Ladyhawke222]

Also, that looks like a 300 pair cable, which would mean that 300 people should have been out od service!!!

I'm an outside tech and if I'm looking at this pic correctly, there is orange spray paint at the bottom of the pole. This indicates that the pole is marked for removal!! All cables, telephone, cable and electric has to be removed in order for the pole to be removed!! Tha cable is cut at the butt, going into the underground and a new route for the phone service was most likely already spliced and working!! What amazes me is there have been no interviews with customers affected by these cuts to service!! Where the he'll are they hiding?? Verizon should be beating down those neighbors in those areas with news cameras so they can voice there displeasure with losing service!!! Ghost customers, ghost sabotages!!! Very interesting!!!

 

[J5311]

My local Bike store doesn't have phones (in either store) because of this BS

 

[JFM-jr]

I'm an outside tech and if I'm looking at this pic correctly, there is orange spray paint at the bottom of the pole. This indicates that the pole is marked for removal!! All cables, telephone, cable and electric has to be removed in order for the pole to be removed!! Tha cable is cut at the butt, going into the underground and a new route for the phone service was most likely already spliced and working!! What amazes me is there have been no interviews with customers affected by these cuts to service!! Where the he'll are they hiding?? Verizon should be beating down those neighbors in those areas with news cameras so they can voice there displeasure with losing service!!! Ghost customers, ghost sabotages!!! Very interesting!!!

This is simply a tactic Verizon employs to divert public attention away from the real issues here of corporate greed. I'm an outside tech on Long Island (on strike) and this job would not be what it is without my union and the collective bargaining agreements over the many years. Good wages,healthcare,job protection all a product of a great company right? LOL The UAW was a different story the corporations were on the verge of collapse unlike the very profitable company Verizon. I have no issue with the C.E.O. making 55K dollars a day (yes a day) but dont turn around and tell me his hands are going into my pockets due to hard times. All we are looking for is to keep what we have. We are not asking for huge raises we only ask not to go backwards. The wireless bussiness is booming and who installed the infrastructure to make it all work? Cell phones dont magically send signals thru the air on their own it was all built by the landline workforce as was the money to get the wireless bussiness off the ground in the first place.

 

[Snow02]

Sounds reasonable. I could understand if it were an issue of a downturn and they were asking for concessions in order to help the company maintain solvency. But, like you said, verizon is making money hand over fist.