Updated Battery Life and Usage

Discussion in 'RAZR HD and RAZR HD MAXX Support' started by jaydub5, Jun 8, 2013.

  1. TisMyDroid

    TisMyDroid DF Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Screen should always be the highest unless you have something running in the background. Voice will be high if you have a lot of calls.

    sent from my Note2 using tapatalk 4 beta
     
  2. FoxKat

    FoxKat DF Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    Excellent analysis and hypothesis. This would definitely be true if the container (battery) always held the same amount at a full state such as a car's gas tank. However a battery's capacity is ever shrinking, and can shrink faster or slower depending on your unique charging and discharging patterns. Imagine a gas tank that gets smaller as the car gets older.

    Next, the rate at which the battery discharges varies based on demand. If the phone calls for more current, the battery has to work harder to keep up with the increased current draw. Thus in turn generates heat. Heat is a form of wasted energy in a battery and results in loss of the charge available to the phone. Imagine a gas tank that not only shrinks over time, but also leaks more gas the harder you press on the accelerator, thereby leaving less fuel than first thought. Fortunately if a car's tank did leak the gauge would still be accurate as it measures fluid content which is simply volume. Unfortunately battery storage isn't based on volume, but instead on a reversible electro-chemical reaction and the movement of electrons.

    Finally, since the capacity of the battery reduces over time, although it will always show 100% at a full charge, a full charge will be less total current each time (i.e. 100% of the then current capacity), and empty (10%), will always come sooner.

    It's for the plethora of dynamic variables related to how the battery stores and releases power, the effect high current draw has on voltages (high current draw pushes voltage down while the battery tutus to keep with the demand), the wasted power converted to heat, the unique charging practices of each individual where some will use to near empty and then charge to full and others may charge partially one or more times daily, and the infinite combinations thereof, that make it a daunting task for the meter to estimate accurately the SOC at any specific point other than when at 100% or 0%.

    These errors in calculation accumulate and multiply over time and like a car left to roll free without hands on the steering wheel, eventually the meter runs off the road and hits a tree.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
     
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  3. jaydub5

    jaydub5 Member

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    Battery life vs screen and voice usage

    Ok, let me rephrase the original question: What screen and voice usage do you average, per hour, and what is your battery life?
    This assumes the screen and voice are your largest battery hogs.
    Also, the wiping cache issue has not been addressed. Will this help
    to achieve longer battery life?
    Thanks.
     
  4. jimmythegent

    jimmythegent Member

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    I dont know what you do for work, sounds like your mostly on the road, if so, I have no idea why your depending on this phone for all that. I would get a $400 laptop and call it a day.

    You say no games, so I am assuming your on the road and working, but web research on this thing would push me to jumping over a bridge.

    Perhaps a tablet might suit you better in conjunction with this phone makes more sense to me, especially if its this important.

    I would get a laptop with 4G LTE.
     
  5. jaydub5

    jaydub5 Member

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    First, please use "you're" and not "your".
    Second, I think I have been exposed to laptops and tablets... This is 2013. Walking the streets of
    Manhattan with either a laptop or tablet is not going to happen, thus this phone, and yes, it does drive me nuts even when the signal is strong.
    Chrome is garbage... Always has issues.
     
  6. jimmythegent

    jimmythegent Member

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    All this to send a friggin video clip? I know better by now, you have set your phones camera to "Super Pixel Mode" in order to send a 15 second clip.

    Another MEGA fail if you ask me....
     
  7. FoxKat

    FoxKat DF Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    I wouldn't be a good reference for you as my usage both varies and isn't what you'd call heavy. I may have 2-3 hours screen time, maybe an hour or two of calling, 3 email services, Google +, some photo uploads, stabbing audio to my car and not much else. Still, I can get two days out if a charge if I want to, however I know it's actually better for the battery to charge frequently and for shorter periods of time than to charge fully and discharge likewise.

    Wiping cache can actually cause you to use more battery since the entire cache then needs to be re-written. Clearing may UN-stop something that may have glitched, but there's an ongoing debate about that.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
     
  8. FoxKat

    FoxKat DF Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    P.S. Lets try to respect each other. The suggestion of a laptop was a sincere one but all are free to use their phones as they wish. Let's refrain from the grammar lessons as well...I use speech to text often and it doesn't necessarily always know the proper use of your versus you're, and I'm not always paying very close attention or in a place where I can devote time to editing my messages so you might even see such a grammatical error from me though I can assure you I do know the difference.



    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
     
  9. jaydub5

    jaydub5 Member

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    Understood, but no disrespect intended. I see this error as well: THERE VS THEIR, or THEY'RE, all too often, and to dismiss such as typos is not helping the quest for better English. Android auto-correct is horrible, I know first hand. Constructive criticism is never disrespectful. Some people unfortunately do not know they are using improper grammar, and yes, helping them is proper.

    Getting back to the main topic,
    REAL battery life for heavy users seems light-years
    away from the reports of those who are light users.
    What real advantage does this phone have when a S3
    can utilize an extra battery and do everything else quicker and better (camera)?
    This phone loses it's advantage when the battery issue becomes moot.
    Strange to see some on this thread do not use a RMHD. What is their reference point?
     
  10. bweN diorD

    bweN diorD Senior Member

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    thats a good explanation,
    i pretty much knew most of what you said, although i didnt know some of the exact principals as you have explained it.

    so given your statement,
    "These errors in calculation accumulate and multiply over time and like a car left to roll free without hands on the steering wheel, eventually the meter runs off the road and hits a tree."
    it still seems logical to me to remove the accumulation of chaos and return order by wiping the stats, no?
     
  11. bweN diorD

    bweN diorD Senior Member

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    to answer a few questions without quoting 6 post,
    - i agree with foxcat about the cache, i dont see how it could help but im not an expert, i could be wrong
    - i wouldnt be a good judge of battery life because my usage is generally light, although, i can run the hotspot for 8-10hrs no problem and still have plenty of battery left
    - i do know proper grammar and choose to ignore the little red line firefox puts under the bad words :)
    - i do have a RMHD (i need to fix my profile i know lol)
     
  12. FoxKat

    FoxKat DF Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    But wiping the stats as explained above takes the phone back to a "Factory Specification" for the battery, so in the case of a RAZR MAXX, the meter BEGINS from that point on, indicating SOC as though it is working with a brand new battery. This means it's expecting the battery to start with a full charge at 3,300 mAh. Wiping stats would be the right starting point IF the battery WERE brand new, but in this case, the battery is likely not new and so where it is specified to have 3,300 mAh from the factory, in fact it may be significantly less. Even 10% less is 330 mAh, so in that case the phone could be indicating a 10% charge level and actually be eating into the reserve portion below 0% - and putting the battery at risk of shutting down completely and becoming non-responsive (look up White Light of Death).

    By training the meter instead to recognize the ACTUAL capacity (mAh), when the battery charge curve indicates it's reached its capacity...and the ACTUAL level when the battery nears the bottom 10% and it's time to recharge again, the meter can more accurately gauge where it is in the discharge cycle and more accurately indicate when it is nearing depletion and needing a charge - thereby protecting it from a deep-discharge.

    In an example, let's say the battery is 9 months old and has been charged fully each night. It's quite possible that it's lost as much as 10% of its original capacity. A battery is expected to last 500 full charge/discharge cycles. That means if you use it from 100% to 20%, and then charge to 100%, you've used 4/5 (or 80%) of one 100% charge cycle, so you'd need to use to 80% and then charge back to 100% to use the additional 20% needed to complete a 100% charge/discharge cycle. Or perhaps it's easier to understand this way. Charge to 100%, use to 50%, charge to 100%...that's a 50% charge cycle or one half of a full cycle. So you'd need to do two of those to equal one 100% cycle, or 1,000 of those 1/2 cycle charges to equal 500 100% cycles.

    In 9 month's time, if you've been charging to 100% and using to 10% each day, you would have done 270 90% charge cycles, or if you say 270 * 90 = 24,300, then divide that by 100...24,300 / 100 = 243. Nearly 250 complete 100% charge cycles. If the battery is considered at "end of useful life" at 500 charges - when it reaches the point where it will only hold 80% of the original capacity, or 3,300 mAh - 660 mAh, or 2,460 mAh then it's going to be at about 10% down from original capacity at 250 charge cycles.

    So a 9-month old battery would only hold about 2,970 mAh at 100% charge. If you clear the stats, then the phone is expecting the battery to be at 3,300 mAh when fully charged to 100%, but it would only have about 2,970 mAh. It will also then show the power reducing at the expected 10% rate by the consumption expected for a 10% reduction, however it will actually take MORE than 10% of the ACTUAL capacity to represent 10% of the RATED capacity. So when it indicates the battery is at;

    100% charge, it's really at 90% of rated capacity, but 100% of ACTUAL (reduced) capacity
    90% charge, it's really at 88.9%, (10% of 3,300 mAh = 330 mAh... 2,970 mAh - 330 mAh = 2,640 / 2,970 = 88.9%)
    80% charge, it's really at 77.8%, (2,640 - 330 = 2,310 / 2,970 = 77.8)
    70% charge, it's really at 66.7%, (2,310 - 330 = 1,980 / 2,970 = 66.7)
    60% charge, it's really at 55.6%,
    50% charge, it's really at 44.5%,
    40% charge, it's really at 33.4%,
    30% charge, it's really at 22.3%,
    20% charge, it's really at 11.2%,
    10% charge, it's really at 00.1%,
    0% charge, it's really at -10%

    In this example, it will reach the ACTUAL 0% in about 90% of the time it should take if it were a new battery, and the last 10% the meter shows would actually be deep-discharging and damaging the battery.
     
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