Updated Battery Life and Usage

Discussion in 'RAZR HD and RAZR HD MAXX Support' started by jaydub5, Jun 8, 2013.

  1. jimmythegent

    jimmythegent Member

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    I dont know what you do for work, sounds like your mostly on the road, if so, I have no idea why your depending on this phone for all that. I would get a $400 laptop and call it a day.

    You say no games, so I am assuming your on the road and working, but web research on this thing would push me to jumping over a bridge.

    Perhaps a tablet might suit you better in conjunction with this phone makes more sense to me, especially if its this important.

    I would get a laptop with 4G LTE.
     
  2. jaydub5

    jaydub5 Member

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    First, please use "you're" and not "your".
    Second, I think I have been exposed to laptops and tablets... This is 2013. Walking the streets of
    Manhattan with either a laptop or tablet is not going to happen, thus this phone, and yes, it does drive me nuts even when the signal is strong.
    Chrome is garbage... Always has issues.
     
  3. jimmythegent

    jimmythegent Member

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    All this to send a friggin video clip? I know better by now, you have set your phones camera to "Super Pixel Mode" in order to send a 15 second clip.

    Another MEGA fail if you ask me....
     
  4. FoxKat

    FoxKat DF Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    I wouldn't be a good reference for you as my usage both varies and isn't what you'd call heavy. I may have 2-3 hours screen time, maybe an hour or two of calling, 3 email services, Google +, some photo uploads, stabbing audio to my car and not much else. Still, I can get two days out if a charge if I want to, however I know it's actually better for the battery to charge frequently and for shorter periods of time than to charge fully and discharge likewise.

    Wiping cache can actually cause you to use more battery since the entire cache then needs to be re-written. Clearing may UN-stop something that may have glitched, but there's an ongoing debate about that.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
     
  5. FoxKat

    FoxKat DF Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    P.S. Lets try to respect each other. The suggestion of a laptop was a sincere one but all are free to use their phones as they wish. Let's refrain from the grammar lessons as well...I use speech to text often and it doesn't necessarily always know the proper use of your versus you're, and I'm not always paying very close attention or in a place where I can devote time to editing my messages so you might even see such a grammatical error from me though I can assure you I do know the difference.



    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
     
  6. jaydub5

    jaydub5 Member

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    Understood, but no disrespect intended. I see this error as well: THERE VS THEIR, or THEY'RE, all too often, and to dismiss such as typos is not helping the quest for better English. Android auto-correct is horrible, I know first hand. Constructive criticism is never disrespectful. Some people unfortunately do not know they are using improper grammar, and yes, helping them is proper.

    Getting back to the main topic,
    REAL battery life for heavy users seems light-years
    away from the reports of those who are light users.
    What real advantage does this phone have when a S3
    can utilize an extra battery and do everything else quicker and better (camera)?
    This phone loses it's advantage when the battery issue becomes moot.
    Strange to see some on this thread do not use a RMHD. What is their reference point?
     
  7. bweN diorD

    bweN diorD Senior Member

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    thats a good explanation,
    i pretty much knew most of what you said, although i didnt know some of the exact principals as you have explained it.

    so given your statement,
    "These errors in calculation accumulate and multiply over time and like a car left to roll free without hands on the steering wheel, eventually the meter runs off the road and hits a tree."
    it still seems logical to me to remove the accumulation of chaos and return order by wiping the stats, no?
     
  8. bweN diorD

    bweN diorD Senior Member

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    to answer a few questions without quoting 6 post,
    - i agree with foxcat about the cache, i dont see how it could help but im not an expert, i could be wrong
    - i wouldnt be a good judge of battery life because my usage is generally light, although, i can run the hotspot for 8-10hrs no problem and still have plenty of battery left
    - i do know proper grammar and choose to ignore the little red line firefox puts under the bad words :)
    - i do have a RMHD (i need to fix my profile i know lol)
     
  9. FoxKat

    FoxKat DF Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    But wiping the stats as explained above takes the phone back to a "Factory Specification" for the battery, so in the case of a RAZR MAXX, the meter BEGINS from that point on, indicating SOC as though it is working with a brand new battery. This means it's expecting the battery to start with a full charge at 3,300 mAh. Wiping stats would be the right starting point IF the battery WERE brand new, but in this case, the battery is likely not new and so where it is specified to have 3,300 mAh from the factory, in fact it may be significantly less. Even 10% less is 330 mAh, so in that case the phone could be indicating a 10% charge level and actually be eating into the reserve portion below 0% - and putting the battery at risk of shutting down completely and becoming non-responsive (look up White Light of Death).

    By training the meter instead to recognize the ACTUAL capacity (mAh), when the battery charge curve indicates it's reached its capacity...and the ACTUAL level when the battery nears the bottom 10% and it's time to recharge again, the meter can more accurately gauge where it is in the discharge cycle and more accurately indicate when it is nearing depletion and needing a charge - thereby protecting it from a deep-discharge.

    In an example, let's say the battery is 9 months old and has been charged fully each night. It's quite possible that it's lost as much as 10% of its original capacity. A battery is expected to last 500 full charge/discharge cycles. That means if you use it from 100% to 20%, and then charge to 100%, you've used 4/5 (or 80%) of one 100% charge cycle, so you'd need to use to 80% and then charge back to 100% to use the additional 20% needed to complete a 100% charge/discharge cycle. Or perhaps it's easier to understand this way. Charge to 100%, use to 50%, charge to 100%...that's a 50% charge cycle or one half of a full cycle. So you'd need to do two of those to equal one 100% cycle, or 1,000 of those 1/2 cycle charges to equal 500 100% cycles.

    In 9 month's time, if you've been charging to 100% and using to 10% each day, you would have done 270 90% charge cycles, or if you say 270 * 90 = 24,300, then divide that by 100...24,300 / 100 = 243. Nearly 250 complete 100% charge cycles. If the battery is considered at "end of useful life" at 500 charges - when it reaches the point where it will only hold 80% of the original capacity, or 3,300 mAh - 660 mAh, or 2,460 mAh then it's going to be at about 10% down from original capacity at 250 charge cycles.

    So a 9-month old battery would only hold about 2,970 mAh at 100% charge. If you clear the stats, then the phone is expecting the battery to be at 3,300 mAh when fully charged to 100%, but it would only have about 2,970 mAh. It will also then show the power reducing at the expected 10% rate by the consumption expected for a 10% reduction, however it will actually take MORE than 10% of the ACTUAL capacity to represent 10% of the RATED capacity. So when it indicates the battery is at;

    100% charge, it's really at 90% of rated capacity, but 100% of ACTUAL (reduced) capacity
    90% charge, it's really at 88.9%, (10% of 3,300 mAh = 330 mAh... 2,970 mAh - 330 mAh = 2,640 / 2,970 = 88.9%)
    80% charge, it's really at 77.8%, (2,640 - 330 = 2,310 / 2,970 = 77.8)
    70% charge, it's really at 66.7%, (2,310 - 330 = 1,980 / 2,970 = 66.7)
    60% charge, it's really at 55.6%,
    50% charge, it's really at 44.5%,
    40% charge, it's really at 33.4%,
    30% charge, it's really at 22.3%,
    20% charge, it's really at 11.2%,
    10% charge, it's really at 00.1%,
    0% charge, it's really at -10%

    In this example, it will reach the ACTUAL 0% in about 90% of the time it should take if it were a new battery, and the last 10% the meter shows would actually be deep-discharging and damaging the battery.
     
  10. bweN diorD

    bweN diorD Senior Member

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    deleted a bunch of theory's that are going no where, as i read from google i see we agree on the facts and leave it at that.
    thanks
     
  11. TisMyDroid

    TisMyDroid DF Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually bwen, not sure if it's the same but the Maxx was notorious for draining past a certain level where it no longer would charge. The rezound also had some problems doing the same. I'm currently trying to resurrect a Rezound because my son drained the batteries so low that I can't get the stupid batteries to charge.

    sent from my Note2 using tapatalk 4 beta
     
  12. bweN diorD

    bweN diorD Senior Member

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    part of what i deleted talked about safety's in the battery, my non tech LI tools have this and its impossible to drain it to an undesired low level. it just shuts off and wont respond until you charge it. not sure why they wouldnt do this to phone batteries...
     
  13. lloydstrans

    lloydstrans Platinum Member

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    All lipos have a chip in them to prevent extremes. A lipo battery without a chip is considered a hazardous material and cannot be bought, sold, or transported in any way without a proper permit. I cringe every time one of my friends powers up his phone because it shut down due to low voltage.

    If it's not HD it might as well be a newspaper.
     
  14. lloydstrans

    lloydstrans Platinum Member

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    Oops, I forgot why I wanted to post, didn't want to get into the lipo debate.

    I've been through a RAZR, RAZR MAXX and currently RMHD. I'm not a power user but sometimes I try. 1st let me say 6 hours of screen (gaming, surfing, streaming) continuously is like 8 hours (15 minutes on 15 off) intermittently. I could get little over 4 hours of screen playing a GPU heavy game, but normally I got 7-8 hours of screen whether it took 20 hrs. or 48 hrs. This was on my old RAZR MAXX.

    If it's not HD it might as well be a newspaper.
     
  15. FoxKat

    FoxKat DF Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    Great question and observation. I've tackled this very issue of differences between power tools and phones in the past, but the short of it is they both draw current at very different rates (when's the last time you drilled with your power tool for 25 straight hours, non-stop?), and the two battery types are actually significantly different in chemistry. One is designed to provide high current in short bursts of relatively similar current levels (drill), the other is designed for low current draw over extended periods of time and at comparatively widely varying current levels (phone).

    Simply by the way power is consumed in the drill, it's very easy for the tool to know when the battery needs to be charged... As it nears being depleted, the high current draws start depressing the voltage, the drill begins to slow and lose torque, and the voltage drops precipitously. Those significant changes in voltage are very easy to detect and the result is the monitoring circuit says "were near the end, shut down now to protect the battery."

    In contrast, a phone's current draws are mostly very low and the battery can easily keep up with the demand for current without suffering voltage drop, even when near the critical low voltages where the power tool would have long since given up completely. Since the voltage doesn't drop in a pattern that is easily discernible, the metering circuitry has a much harder time determining when to call it quits.

    Furthermore, you don't likely have a power meter on your power tool that tells you in 10% (or for that matter 1%), increments how long you have until charge is needed. If your power tool dies in the middle of a job, you pull another off the charger, slap it on and continue where you left off. However if your phone battery dies, it could be life threatening or financially devastating, such as not being able to make a call to 911, our losing your connection to the client you were trying to persuade to do business with you. In other words, the phone is far more mission critical, so the battery must be able to stand tough for those marathon sessions and still deliver.

    So the phone's meter needs to not only accurately know what the full charge and depleted charge looks like, but also calculate where along the path to depletion it is at any given time, through a very long and gradual voltage depletion phase, and make sure it doesn't get too deeply depleted least it trigger the battery's protection mode...a very tough job. Add to that, the fact that one high current draw due to perhaps streaming a movie in a poor cellular coverage area could depress the voltage low enough even when sufficient current remains, to essentially "fool" the meter into thinking the battery is dead and trigger a shut-down.

    Over time as it "sees" these voltage dips and interprets them as a depleted battery, it then uses those artificially depleted voltages as the "new low". There have been many cases where the phone says the battery is depleted but the phone remains running for hours past when it should have shut off if the meter were accurately gauging the remaining power. The inverse is when phones report there's 40% remaining, then only minutes later shut down without warning and become unresponsive to the charger.

    There's lots more to it than this but to hopefully keep from boring nearly everyone to sleep I'm trying to condense it.



    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
     
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