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Updated Battery Life and Usage

Discussion in 'RAZR HD and RAZR HD MAXX Support' started by jaydub5, Jun 8, 2013.

  1. jaydub5
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    jaydub5 New Member

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    Hello all, after my FOURTH RMHD, I thought I would refresh
    this topic.
    It seems everyone who was posting extremely
    good battery life was not using the phone heavily, as I do.
    I use my phone all day for work: Gmail, Web Research, Voice Calls.
    No games, etc.
    Lately I am getting 14 hours TOTAL battery life, with 6.5 hrs on screen (brightness depending on my locale... Half bright does NOT work outside), and 3 hours of Talk (Voice) time.
    I have conditioned the battery NUMEROUS times, Cleared Cache, disabled all crap apps, only have ONE downloaded app running most of the time
    (SwiftKey). I turn Mobile Data OFF-LIMITS when not in use. Here in NYC I get a strong 5 bar
    LTE signal... NO problems.
    I feel that they stats, whole passable, are not great.
    I got MUCH better battery life MORE usage BEFORE
    JB.
    Please add your stats and offer suggestions.
    Thanks.
  2. bweN diorD
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    bweN diorD Well-Known Member

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    given your usage 14 hours is reasonable, most other phones likely couldnt do 1/2 that.
    "I have conditioned the battery NUMEROUS times", you cant condition a lithium ion battery, not possible. what you are doing by trying is shortening the life of the battery.
    also, your cache cleaning app probably uses more batt than it saves, if it saves any. i have almost always found all those cleaners and clearers to do more harm than good.

    hope that helps...
    1 person likes this.
  3. jaydub5
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    jaydub5 New Member

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    Update on battery life

    So I guess all the others who say to let the battery run down to calibrate the phone/battery are wrong?
    Clearing the cache is not done with an app, it is a system tool.
    These two processes have been repeatedly recommend for best battery life.
    Verizon techies also give this advice.
  4. bweN diorD
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    bweN diorD Well-Known Member

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    yes, who ever is saying run down a lithium ion battery is wrong. they have no memory like old ni cad batteries and similar.

    other than going app by app clearing cache, i assumed most would use a clearing app. some will have a custom recovery and do it that way... either way, generally, you get little benefit if any.

    "Verizon techies also give this advice." for the most part, thats the blind leading the blind....
  5. TisMyDroid
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    TisMyDroid Rescue Squad

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    This has nothing to do with battery life but has everything to do with making sure the meter that reads the battery's state of charge (soc) is accurate. Your phone reports soc as being a certain percentage but sometimes, after time, what the phone reports is not accurate (reports that you have 50% charge when really the battery may only have 10% charge or vice versa... reports 10% when really it is 70%). The battery is not getting better or worse at holding a charge but the phone is not reporting it correctly.

    The way to fix this is to calibrate the meter (not the same as calibrating the battery which does not happen with these batteries). What calibrating your meter does is re-teaches the phone to read soc accurately by helping it recognize the phone's low charge flag and full flag charge. The steps to calibrating your meter are...

    -With phone off, charge to 100%
    -Turn phone on and use it, without charging, till it reaches 10-15% (sets the low battery level flag)
    -Turn phone off and charge to 100% again (sets the high battery level flag).
    -Turn phone on... use and charge your phone as you usually would.

    sent from my Note2 using tapatalk 4 beta
    2 people like this.
  6. bweN diorD
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    bweN diorD Well-Known Member

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    here is an article from Battery University How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

    a few key points are,
    "If at all possible, avoid full discharges and charge the battery more often between uses"
    "Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine; there is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life"

    "other than to calibrate the fuel gauge on a smart battery once in a while" if you read on, a full discharge is considered to be 10% not 0%, thats because running it down past 10% is not good for the battery. furthermore, your not actually resetting the battery your resetting the phone battery stats, which i have been told by developers, reset every time you reboot the phone.
    so this part of the article no longer applies due to advancements in software.
    2 people like this.
  7. bweN diorD
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    bweN diorD Well-Known Member

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    lol beat me to it
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  8. TisMyDroid
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    TisMyDroid Rescue Squad

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    This would explain why I have yet to feel a need to calibrate my battery meter on my note 2 where I often felt the need (and noticed a big difference) on my Maxx.

    sent from my Note2 using tapatalk 4 beta
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  9. FoxKat
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    FoxKat Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    Excellent post and done very concisely.

    I agree with nearly everything but knowing how LIPO batteries operate and also how the meters try to identify SOC, I find it hard to believe they can be a software update that can eliminate the problem, although I do believe they can get better at managing the readings.

    A LIPO battery isn't a static container. Its a dynamic one, and not only dynamic but diminishing in capacity over time. Every battery has its own profile and no two batteries will ever be identical, so how can any dynamic meter accurately gauge a dynamic current flow from a dynamic battery and supplying it to a dynamic load? The only easy is to "re-test" the limits and use them as new reference points. Just weeping out the battery stats is actually worse since you set things back to factory spec which is based on Brand new battery.

    See above. Better but not perfect.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
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  10. bweN diorD
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    bweN diorD Well-Known Member

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    i dont know how the stats file is used exactly, i would think it uses an averaging system derived from multiple readings of voltage, load and charging state, etc. to determine a reading.
    if this is the case, i would think wiping the stats more frequently leads to a generally more accurate reading because there are less numbers in the pool.
    for example, if you have 20 readings that average to 5 and you add a 4 to that average, you changed the average a very small amount.
    but if you have one reading that is 5 and add a 4 to it your a lot closer to the correct reading, and 5 much quicker becomes the anomaly rather than the constant.

    just my 2c, i could be wrong...
  11. jaydub5
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    jaydub5 New Member

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    Battery

    Ok, understand the calibration of the meter...
    Wiping cache?
    Plus, let's get back to my main question:
    What battery life do you heavy users achieve on the RMHD?
    The two main battery hogs for me are screen, usually around 60%, and
    Voice....
    Thanks for all your replies.
  12. SJBBF
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    SJBBF New Member

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    I use pretty much all screen and apps navigation, music, and Web browser. No games or video for the most part. I get the better part of two days before charging.
  13. TisMyDroid
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    Screen should always be the highest unless you have something running in the background. Voice will be high if you have a lot of calls.

    sent from my Note2 using tapatalk 4 beta
  14. FoxKat
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    FoxKat Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    Excellent analysis and hypothesis. This would definitely be true if the container (battery) always held the same amount at a full state such as a car's gas tank. However a battery's capacity is ever shrinking, and can shrink faster or slower depending on your unique charging and discharging patterns. Imagine a gas tank that gets smaller as the car gets older.

    Next, the rate at which the battery discharges varies based on demand. If the phone calls for more current, the battery has to work harder to keep up with the increased current draw. Thus in turn generates heat. Heat is a form of wasted energy in a battery and results in loss of the charge available to the phone. Imagine a gas tank that not only shrinks over time, but also leaks more gas the harder you press on the accelerator, thereby leaving less fuel than first thought. Fortunately if a car's tank did leak the gauge would still be accurate as it measures fluid content which is simply volume. Unfortunately battery storage isn't based on volume, but instead on a reversible electro-chemical reaction and the movement of electrons.

    Finally, since the capacity of the battery reduces over time, although it will always show 100% at a full charge, a full charge will be less total current each time (i.e. 100% of the then current capacity), and empty (10%), will always come sooner.

    It's for the plethora of dynamic variables related to how the battery stores and releases power, the effect high current draw has on voltages (high current draw pushes voltage down while the battery tutus to keep with the demand), the wasted power converted to heat, the unique charging practices of each individual where some will use to near empty and then charge to full and others may charge partially one or more times daily, and the infinite combinations thereof, that make it a daunting task for the meter to estimate accurately the SOC at any specific point other than when at 100% or 0%.

    These errors in calculation accumulate and multiply over time and like a car left to roll free without hands on the steering wheel, eventually the meter runs off the road and hits a tree.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
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  15. jaydub5
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    jaydub5 New Member

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    Battery life vs screen and voice usage

    Ok, let me rephrase the original question: What screen and voice usage do you average, per hour, and what is your battery life?
    This assumes the screen and voice are your largest battery hogs.
    Also, the wiping cache issue has not been addressed. Will this help
    to achieve longer battery life?
    Thanks.
  16. jimmythegent
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    jimmythegent Member

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    I dont know what you do for work, sounds like your mostly on the road, if so, I have no idea why your depending on this phone for all that. I would get a $400 laptop and call it a day.

    You say no games, so I am assuming your on the road and working, but web research on this thing would push me to jumping over a bridge.

    Perhaps a tablet might suit you better in conjunction with this phone makes more sense to me, especially if its this important.

    I would get a laptop with 4G LTE.
  17. jaydub5
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    jaydub5 New Member

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    First, please use "you're" and not "your".
    Second, I think I have been exposed to laptops and tablets... This is 2013. Walking the streets of
    Manhattan with either a laptop or tablet is not going to happen, thus this phone, and yes, it does drive me nuts even when the signal is strong.
    Chrome is garbage... Always has issues.
  18. jimmythegent
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    jimmythegent Member

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    All this to send a friggin video clip? I know better by now, you have set your phones camera to "Super Pixel Mode" in order to send a 15 second clip.

    Another MEGA fail if you ask me....
  19. FoxKat
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    FoxKat Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    I wouldn't be a good reference for you as my usage both varies and isn't what you'd call heavy. I may have 2-3 hours screen time, maybe an hour or two of calling, 3 email services, Google +, some photo uploads, stabbing audio to my car and not much else. Still, I can get two days out if a charge if I want to, however I know it's actually better for the battery to charge frequently and for shorter periods of time than to charge fully and discharge likewise.

    Wiping cache can actually cause you to use more battery since the entire cache then needs to be re-written. Clearing may UN-stop something that may have glitched, but there's an ongoing debate about that.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
  20. FoxKat
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    FoxKat Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    P.S. Lets try to respect each other. The suggestion of a laptop was a sincere one but all are free to use their phones as they wish. Let's refrain from the grammar lessons as well...I use speech to text often and it doesn't necessarily always know the proper use of your versus you're, and I'm not always paying very close attention or in a place where I can devote time to editing my messages so you might even see such a grammatical error from me though I can assure you I do know the difference.



    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
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