Task Killers... The Answer from Google & Developers.

Discussion in 'Android Applications' started by Martin030908, Aug 1, 2010.

  1. JohnnyDepth

    JohnnyDepth Member

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    I'm not sure you know the difference between say "Autokiller" and
    a task killer. They are two different things entirely.

    One potentially disrupts protocols that shouldn't be touched...
    and the other actually fine tunes the preexisting task managing
    system native to Android OS.
     
  2. aminaked

    aminaked Silver Member

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    You're right, I don't know what Autokiller is. I've never used it. What part of what I wrote gave me away?
     
  3. JohnnyDepth

    JohnnyDepth Member

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    Over 1600 posts and that is what you chose to say?
    This isn't a contest dude. I said I'm not sure.
    Now I am sure.
     
  4. aminaked

    aminaked Silver Member

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    I honestly have no clue what you're getting at. Are you trying to argue or something? I was just telling people to experiment and see what's best.

    By the way, if you want to get in a pissing contest--because it seems you do--I've been a software dev for over 10 years and went to Stanford, so let's get it on.
     
  5. aminaked

    aminaked Silver Member

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    Now don't get yourself banned here.
     
  6. JohnnyDepth

    JohnnyDepth Member

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    Expectations, and (lack of) communication is what starts issues.

    I never said anything, nor was it my intention to "get" anything on
    with you or anyone else for that matter. Just because someone doesn't know some tiny aspect of a phone (or system) doesn't denote overall ignorance in the given field of discussion. (Your credentials were never in question)

    However, you deemed it prudent to be a smart-ass about the obviousness
    you didn't know what Autokiller was. (which I picked up on)
    I didn't think your advice was poor or irrelevant, but was incomplete with respect to how Autokiller functions...which is why I chimed in to enlighten you or anyone that didn't know what it was or what it does.

    This program benefits every kind of user on this forum

    I had previously stated that this was NOT a pissing contest
    yet you throw it back on me as if I invited you to one?

    Get some sleep bro, and peace be with you.
     
  7. aminaked

    aminaked Silver Member

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    What was the comment about 1600 posts? I've been helping every noob with an email problem on this forum, not to mention countless other problems.

    I wasn't being a smart ass about the Autokiller thing. I don't know how you can interpret it that way. I am often a smart ass, but not that time.

    And I don't see how my advice was incomplete. I was telling people to experiment with stuff. Experiment with Autokiller...whatever.

    Look, peace be with you too. I'm just not sure how I got into this with you.

    OK, just went back and read it. I can see how that could be interpreted as a smart ass comment, but believe it or not I was trying to figure out how you figured out that I didn't know what Autokiller was.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2010
  8. dmo580

    dmo580 Member

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    And that's base don what Android THINKS is sufficient. We all know that when you dip to 30MB free or so even the home screen starts being choppy.

    When I set my minfree to around 60, I see (using a task killer) that my phone does its best to keep around 60 MB free RAM. The result? Lightning fast response.

    There's nothing wrong with using a task killer. You just gotta use it correctly. Setting it to auto kill every 5 min is NOT the solution you're absolutely right, but to generalize that task killers are not needed is outrageous. Even your own update shows that there are specific cases where it could be used.

    Today I just pulled my phone out of my pocket. My phone was hot as hell. I remember closing slacker radio after I left the car (which is a daily routine), and the icon isn't there on the top. So why is it so hot? Why did my battery drop 40% since lunch? Hmmm. I had to use a task killer just to kill stuff to be sure. And sure enough the phone stopped draining. I'm not sure what the source was, but killing a bunch of unecessary apps seemed to do the trick.

    If you really think Android's going to do this all perfectly for you, then this is like saying Apple makes the best decisions for its smartphone users and that you should never have to do something beyond the scope of the phone (i.e. forget rooting/jailbreaking).

    As for the whole 100 MB myth... like you said its wasted real estate. But to whom? What if you have 2gb of memory but you want to maintain 100mb free. So what's wasting 5% of real estate going to do? To kill you? If you do it on a DROID, 100/256 is a lot, so yeah it's a huge waste. But is Android's typical 30mb or whatever sufficient? The system typically gets unresponsive at that point. Its a night and day difference between 30 MB and 60MB.

    The page also makes some good points. You obviously don't wnat 100MB free at all times because your system will kill as much as it can. If the base system uses 150mb out of your 256mb, then you only have 6 more MB of free "your memory." Obviously this will lead to redraws and stuff. Apps being killed off all the time. Like having to reload all your webpages. But at the same time, how do you know Android's default 32mb works fine? What if 40 MB works better for you? 50MB? It's all experimentation.

    To say that Google engineers nailed it perfectly on the dot is false. This is why with each OS update and with each phone specific update, performace gets better and better. There's tweaking to be done, and we can do some of it, but make sure you're doing it correctly.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
  9. aminaked

    aminaked Silver Member

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    The thing is, automated task killers can be the root cause of this type of problem...CPU running like crazy, battery dropping. I'm not saying it is in your case, but it is a problem for some people.

    I never use an automated task killer and never even kill tasks manually and I'm very happy with my battery life. I also try to stay away from crap apps...this includes antivirus and most (all?) task killers.
     
  10. dmo580

    dmo580 Member

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    Yeah. I have a task killer but I use it like once a week to kill a single app sometimes. That's it. I definitely did not use it yesterday, but to say apps don't go crazy sometimes is a bit wrong. I ended up killing Slacker hoping that was why my phone went crazy hot because I get poor reception in my office anyway. After Id id my phone cooled down and it was a lot better. But that was insane that it turned into a burning brick in my pocket while walking around the office.

    Another example was the stupid Speedtest app that uses GPS to determine where you are. With A-GPS locks are fast, but I had the Telus Milestone, and back before we revealed that it uses a SUPL server thats behidn a firewall and you need to change it to a google location server for it to work properly, it would be hard to get a lock indoor without the assist. As a result, no exit button meant that the app somehow didn't die and it kept looking for GPS in my office... for like 30 min... before I realized my battery went down 30%. Yikes. Task kill.

    I equate Task Kill to a CTRL+ALT+DEL (or whatever the equivalent is on Win7) and killing a process.exe. It's something you should rarely do if the apps are written properly. But you can't deny that some apps break down from time to time and you do need a hard kill. The same applies to Mac OSX or my experiences on Ubuntu. It's rare, but it DOES happen.

    I agree automated is dumb unless you are absolutely sure your list of auto killing apps are decent. Nothing wrong with killing off things like Pandora, but if you're constantly killing K9 or your push email app, you will run into problems.

    People shouldn't really use auto killing, but if you do, I feel like the requirements need to be set very loose.

    Anyway, Id on't recommend it, but would encourage use of the MinFree editing through apps like AutoKiller (not an autokilling task manager)
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
  11. aminaked

    aminaked Silver Member

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    Yes, I suppose there's no harm in killing off the Pandora task when done. But what's the point if Pandora is sitting idle in memory? Android will kill it as needed. I'm just imagining people clicking their task killing widget constantly for no good reason. They need to chill out and probably uninstall that thing.

    I hear you on the "Ctrl+Alt+Del" aspect. I'll admit, once in a while I have to kill something that goes haywire but it's very rare. If it happens a lot with an app I uninstall. If I really want the app, I take the time to notify the dev. The only app I remember killing recently is actually stock...the Google voice-to-text thing hangs and won't open. Killing it seems to do the trick. This kind of occasional task killing is very different from autokilling or manually killing all the time. I don't even have an app installed because I do it so rarely. I just use phone settings > applications

    Regarding Slacker, I don't like how it runs on startup and runs continually in the background...downloading songs or whatever. I don't need my music player to do that so I use Pandora. Pandora even has an Exit button.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
  12. cereal killer

    cereal killer DF Administrator Staff Member

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    If you have to use a Task Killer to get your phone to run right you are doing something wrong.
     
  13. aminaked

    aminaked Silver Member

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    What about my example where Google voice search hangs? It's a known Android bug. It just craps out and won't start up again. One way to fix it is to reboot the phone. The other way is to kill the task.

    I think that your statement is the right advice to give, but won't you admit that once in a while a Ctrl+Alt+Del type method is needed to kill a task?
     
  14. SGTiger

    SGTiger Member

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    Or the devs of certain apps are doing something wrong.
     
  15. Ozzie

    Ozzie Member

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    I have removed my task killer seeing the responses in this thread. I thought it was doing me a favor running it, but now I'm trying to let it do it's own thing.

    The one thing I don't understand is how to close apps, or even if I should.
    Some have an end button and some you back out of. It leaves me wondering what's going on...is it active or not, is it supposed to be closed or does the OS handle it. No clue if the OS is doing what it's supposed to be doing...

    Is it a SMART OS? Does it learn how you use it and preload programs you use most often to eliminate lag and be more efficient?
     
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