Steve Jobs says Android/Google won't keep up

Discussion in 'Non-Android Smart Phones' started by p1ngputts, Feb 1, 2010.

  1. NVash

    NVash Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2009
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    I want a Kindle, Ill admit it, but fact is the books on there are too daggone expensive and its STILL not in color. How long has the thing been out now? Cmon now, this is ridiculous. I dont care about the E-ink and all that other stuff, all I know is the Nook just came out and its in color. You can 'lend' your friend a book up to three weeks, that kinda thing is what sold the Nook to me immediately. I havent bought one, however, Im sticking with my iTouch and Droid EBook readers. But if I ever upgrade the Nook is looking real good. And the book pricing, Ive read many complaints on the Amazon board about that. Think they said that you can actually go out and buy the actual book cheaper than the EBook version. What kind of mess is that? Not to mention it cant read PDF or LIT, IIRC, so its useless to me.
     
  2. JFDroid

    JFDroid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Ohio
    Ratings:
    +0
    This is really sad.

    Maybe, just maybe, the iPad won't sell like crazy and the higher prices won't make up for lower volume of sales for these publishers, and they will court Amazon and come back and lower prices.

    I doubt it, because people are sheep and love anything Apple creates, but in my dreams this might happen. Ha.
     
  3. hazydave

    hazydave Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    South Jersey
    Ratings:
    +0
    Ah... yeah... um

    Yeah, right. Apple has shown, for so many years, that they are perfectly capable of competing with the whole of the PC industry on desktops. That's why they're beating down Microsoft so much.

    Oh wait.. that didn't happen. Macs have done better lately in the USA, but they're still only about 5% of the global installed base of personal computers.

    So now, we have virtually every other smart phone company other than RIM, Apple, and Palm doing something with Android. Even Noika, the current market leader in smart phones internationally (last year, they sold about 4x as many as Apple), is playing with Android, though right now, only on tablets... but hey, they're already doing Linux. They could easily sell a device that offers the customer a choice between Maemo and Android. But I digress...

    Apple will fail for many reasons, but here's one simple one. Android smartphone are already going out at $50 out-of-pocket on special deals. This is saving cell phone companies huge cash -- on the low end, it's the lack of a need to pay licensing fees... Android is already the #2 Applications Smartphone. So the price drops to a place Apple will NEVER go. On the high-end, there are already multiple Android phones outperforming the iPhone on just about any benchmark you'd care to name. That's not just a momentary thing, that's an nonlinear trend. Android will not just remain better, it'll get progressively better still, HW and SW. And Apple can't do a bloody thing to stop it, even given their crazy cash reserves.

    RIM's the one to suffer first. If I were running RIM, I'd at the very least have all of my enterprise phone software ported to Android ASAP. That's the thing with RIM... no one ever bought a Blackberry for its OS, or for its consumer-level features. With rare exception, they got a BlackBerry because their company loved the say a single admin at one's company can set policies and all sorts of restrictions and requirements on everyone's BlackBerry, all at once. Well, that, and, like Palm, they were one of the first companies making phones that did texting well.

    But put the RIM enterprise hooks into a custom RIM version of Android, and they leave behind the bad things about BlackBerries, while moving what the do well forward.

    They had better.. and it better be more than just iPad junk in an iPhone case. Between the Motorola DROID, the Google Nexus One, and the forthcoming Sony Xperia X10, the future of the smart phone is clear, and it has evolved beyond any iPhone. Sure, there's some work yet to happen in places on Android... in other places, it's already miles ahead. Things like multitasking, Java + Flash for a first class web experience, things Apple will NEVER do. At least as long as Jobs is boss, no one really has to worry THAT much about Apple, because they will voluntarily make themselves second class, versus Android.

    And you can bet, from now until forever, that any developer who's been put through the Apple "acceptance wringer", either to have to castrate their original vision, or have it rejected entirely, is looking into Android, if they are not there already. Not to mention that Apple is very US-centric... Android is already international. There's work yet to do on Android, but it's happening. Consider the companies involved. Just Motorola has about 300 people working on Android support and development. This includes HTC, Sony Ericsson, Vodafone, Dell, Kyocera, Sprint, Acer, Panasonic, nVidia, Huawei, Telefonica, T-Mobile, Broadcom Corp., China Unicom, Verizon, Texas Instruments, Intel, LG, Marvell Technology Group, Motorola, Qualcomm, Samsung Electronics, ARM Holdings Plc, Atheros Communications, Asustek Computer Inc, Garmin Ltd, Softbank, Sony Ericsson, Toshiba Corp, and of course, Google. And I'm sure, many others.

    Versus Apple. You'll note not just a few companies in that list who are larger than Apple.

    Don't forget, Apple was once the most profitable personal computer company, as well as one of the top sellers. They couldn't match Commodore for volume (not sure about Atari), but they did enjoy much higher margins. They fell, fast, once the IBM PC got cloned. There's absolutely no reason to believe that, with more vibrant market dynamics against Apple today, another industry coming together on a software standard, just as in the PC days, that Apple will do any better in the long run than they've done in the PC business.

    This isn't about "killing", really. My boss of some decades ago, Jack Tramiel, got famous for not only saying "business is war", but following up on that. And yet, Apple survived the 8-bit era, but were never as dominant. Until the iPod, and even the iPhone.. they're very profitable, but only about 10-12% of the global smart phone business. Versus 5% of the personal computer business. People in the USA don't see the big picture, and tend to believe Apple is more than they really are.

    So Apple won't get killed. But some the PC dynamics may eventually take hold. They might be forced to compete with better actual hardware, rather than just a myth of better hardware. They will have to be on many phone networks, because, in a few months, there will be Android phones on all US phone networks (only AT&T has not yet offered an Android phone yet). They will also be forced down in price. But I'm betting, as with the modern PC, they'll carve out a weird niche. You can buy an iPhone today, knowing it's the best supported applications phone today. But Android will pass it, probably in 2011, and won't look back. Anyone really understanding how these markets work sees this only as a "when", not an "if". Jobs... well, he's selling stuff. Don't expect a straight answer.


    e.g, the level most PC manufacturers have been at for the last 6-9 months. The Mac IS a PC, and can't be anything different in any significant way. Slim cases and non-replaceable batteries get notice in the press, but largely just out of momentum from when Apple did interesting things. The problem is, they can't be every PC company doing every interesting thing. So they might well rank up there with HP or Toshiba or Sony or Lenovo in terms of innovations in any cycle. But never all of them.

    Then you have the Apple religion. Like building the PC and monitor into a single case. That looks cool, but it's really, really stupid for any consumer to buy that. I mean, if you're a PC user, how often do you change monitors vs. PCs? Maybe the bog lowest consumer buys monitor + PC every time, but usually , the monitor lasts through a few PC generations. Apple's just sucking more cash from you, doing this. It's self-limiting... there's another one born every minute, but not that many.

    No, it's not. I've been making Blu-Ray using Sony Vegas on the PC for nearly two years now. Apple's stupid here, and since they cater to a professional market with their various pro-video offerings, they're just hurting themselves. No one's moving to Mac in this field who isn't already using it, but those using it and needing Blu-Ray (which accounts for a minimum of 10% sales for any major hollywood release, and sometimes as much as 25-30%) will go elsewhere. And they may not return.

    Sony did it right... they released a version of DVD Architect (their DVD authoring program) that simply let you map DVD to BD. So I create a BD project, change a few things, and it's a DVD. This isn't going to make you leave Sony's Blu-Print or Sonic Solution's various Blu-Ray tools.. but neither will anything Apple's doing. Sure, at some point, I'll want more Blu-Ray specific tools, but for small independent production, the best tool today is author once, burn twice. That's much easier than delivering do "do everything" app, what with BD-Java and all the possibilities in Blu-Ray. But hey, it's nice for Apple to give the fairly closed Mac media content creation community a reason to look at better solutions.
     
  4. johnflo88

    johnflo88 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    bc,canada
    Ratings:
    +0
    @darreno1;BEAUTIFULLY SPOKEN!! people,couldn't agree more. :icon_ banana:
     
  5. jcardona1

    jcardona1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,208
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Commiefornia
    Ratings:
    +40
    why i love Google/Android/my Droid, it still cant touch the iPhone in terms of touch screen responsiveness and scrolling. this is a major deal breaker for many people IMO. and its the #1 complaint i hear from iphone people picking up the Droid.

    until this issue gets resolved, iPhone will continue to grow. and i too have a feeling the new iPhone will be nothing short of amazing. but i'm still standing by Android :)
     
  6. aaf709

    aaf709 Nice Guy
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Location:
    So Cal
    Ratings:
    +49
    At this point I have a question for Steve Jobs...

    "What do you want to be when you grow up?"
     
  7. johnflo88

    johnflo88 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    bc,canada
    Ratings:
    +0
    @JFDroid; It will happened, i am afraid! Iphone= ipad=I-SHEEP.:icon_ devil:I-steve
     
  8. aaf709

    aaf709 Nice Guy
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Location:
    So Cal
    Ratings:
    +49
    I agree. I did see one review of the iPad, saying that like the iPhone, before it come out, there were bloggers saying how bad it was, but after people started using the iPhone those bloggers mysteriously vanished. They were expecting the same with the iPad, no more bloggers saying how bad it was once the public actually got to use it.
     
  9. astevens54

    astevens54 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Florida
    Ratings:
    +2
    Current Phone Model:
    Droid Turbo
    Jobs is out of touch, it's evident after the comments he made about Netbooks and for the top of the line iPad costing $830. No real OS, no USB, no flash... you get the idea. I owned a Touch and loved it, but sold it after upgrading to a Droid. I will say at least the Droid community is open and we can even talk about hacks. Try that with Apple and your post will be deleted with a nasty email from the moderator. I love not having to use iTunes!
     
  10. jmart8684

    jmart8684 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    Ratings:
    +0
    On a note of steve jobs we didn't enter the search engine, google entered the phone industry, or whatever the quote was...google was planning to enter the smartphone world before the iphone was even thought of. Google bought android mid 2005, even a couple months before the Motorola Rockr w/ itunes was released...and also the leaked froyo w/ ported flash is working a bit better then jobs made it out to be..
     
  11. hazydave

    hazydave Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    South Jersey
    Ratings:
    +0
    Of course they did. Google's move into smart phones started, at least, as a very savvy defensive move. Think about it... before you had a smart phone with first-class web browsing, you probably went off to a PC somewhere to browse. Now, just whip out that smart phone. The big problem was, back around 2004, every smart phone platform was proprietary. And it was easy to see that, at the very least, Google could wind up with zero percent of the default search-engine installed base. And they technically could be shut out overnight, if an aggressive alternative grew the right legs to get Palm, RIM, Microsoft, etc. away from offering Google as a default. And of course, MS was already getting into the search engine business.

    I think today, Android is so much more, for Google as well. The very nature of search is changing on these devices, with things like augmented reality and GPS enhancing search is cool new ways. Was Google really supposed to cross their fingers on this, their basic bread and butter? Of course not! And hey, they did the one thing Apple could never do... they delivered a smart phone platform that was precisely what the cell phone manufacturers wanted -- common apps, customizable, open source, and free as they want it.

    This is also a huge benefit to consumers, as its opening the smart phone world in very much the same way MS-DOS and Windows pried open the formerly proprietary world of personal computing (MS's stuff never being open source, but certainly "open" in the sense that anyone could put it on their hardware or develop for it). A few weeks ago, you got to see Apple's new offering for the next year... every week, you get to see a couple new Android phones. One size never fits all (this coming from a guy who wears a size 8 hat...).

    Of course it is. Jobs is primarily a Marketroid. On a great day, Marketing guys are only just lying to you. Jobs is powerful enough to sometimes change the markets just based on his ramblings, and this was one such attempt. His real goal is to eliminate the need for any first class applications or video sales on the iOS devices that isn't coming directly through Apple in some way. Flash was and still is very, very much necessary for a first-class web browsing experience, and video is only a small part of that. But Jobs loves the idea of HTML 5's video tag... it removes any possibility of DRMed video and is very likely to become a common video standard. So he attacks Flash by framing the argument entirely around video, then taking on Flash as being slow on the iOS and Mac devices... BECAUSE APPLE DOESN'T HAVE OPEN VIDEO ACCELERATION APIs (the latest version of MacOS does, now, but this is recent). In short, they caused the problem, and get to blame Adobe for it.

    Their win here is that, if people stop needed Flash for a first class web experience, Apple won't lose market share due to not supporting Flash. This is still a big IF, and probably why Google and Adobe are both so friendly these days. Killing enough demand for Flash gives you free video in HTML, but every bit of pay video has to come via the iTunes store. This also puts the nix on Flash games, free or paid, that are in many cases good enough to distract users from paying for their iTunes-DLed games.

    And of course, allowing only Apple development tools (first time anyone's forced such a closed back-end on any platform... even Flash development is more open), means developers can't use Flash + AIR or other multi-platform tools for iOS development. So they're either spending extra money for iOS support, or extra money for other platforms. Jobs, of course, has the ego to believe this will absolutely hurt other platforms.... given the relative market share of Android, Blackberry, and Nokia smart phone platforms, I have my doubts.
     
  12. hookbill

    hookbill Premium Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Messages:
    19,502
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    168
    Location:
    N.E. Ohio
    Ratings:
    +8
    I really do love my Mac computer.:heart: