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So, I guess VZW can terminate our service for modding our phones?

Discussion in 'Droid Bionic Hacks' started by Dave12308, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. Dave12308
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    Dave12308 New Member

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    I was just reading over my customer agreement for the heck of it, and I noticed something very curious in the following section:

    Note the bolded, underlined section (2)(d). I guess Motorola's resistance to offer us an unlocked bootloader really IS due to carrier demands. I am surprised other manufacturers offer it, to be honest. With provisions like this directly in the contract, I am surprised they even got the GNex. With that phone, it would seem that VZW could cancel your service for using the device the way it is designed to be used; since it's technically a developer's phone.

    Also, if you'll notice section (1)(e), that's the part where they can get you for illegal tethering and also returning a device under false pretenses. Even if you THINK tethering SHOULD be included, it's not. So it's stealing.
  2. pc747
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    pc747 Administrator Staff Member

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    Only problem is vzw has employees who mod. If you buy your device you have the right to do what you want with it. Now the consequences is also on you if you brick it.
  3. syndicate0017
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    syndicate0017 Well-Known Member

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    I believe it was held up in court that modifying your device is completely legal and you can't have your service terminated for it. The only thing you can get in trouble for is what you do AFTER you modify it. If your modifications are for illicit behavior, then they can get you. I believe tethering would fall into that category. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
  4. *22899
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    *22899 Premium Member Premium Member

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    I wish they would, Then I'd have a Rezound, Nexus, Droid X, and og droid with out a contract! They don't have the stones to start that type of stiff arming.
  5. jsan2727
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    jsan2727 New Member

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    What Are Verizon Wireless' Rights to Limit or End Service or End this Agreement?
    We can, without notice, limit, suspend or end your Service or any agreement with you for any good cause, including, but not limited to: (1) if you: (a) breach this agreement; (b) resell your Service; (c) use your Service for any illegal purpose, including use that violates trade and economic sanctions and prohibitions promulgated by any U.S. governmental agency; (d) install, deploy or use any regeneration equipment or similar mechanism (for example, a repeater) to originate, amplify, enhance, retransmit or regenerate an RF signal without our permission; (e) steal from or lie to us; or, if you're a Postpay customer, (f) do not pay your bill on time; (g) incur charges larger than a required deposit or billing limit, or materially in excess of your monthly access charges (even if we haven't yet billed the charges); (h) provide credit information we can't verify; or (i) are unable to pay us or go bankrupt; or (2) if you, any user of your device or any line of service on your account, or any account manager on your account: (a) threaten, harass, or use vulgar and/or inappropriate language toward our representatives; (b) interfere with our operations; (c) "spam," or engage in other abusive messaging or calling; (d) modify your device from its manufacturer's specifications; or (e) use your Service in a way that negatively affects our network or other customers. We can also temporarily limit your Service for any operational or governmental reason.


    I noticed that you did not highlight the part about stealing, so i did. It does not say anything about tethering, if that was the issue wouldn't they get VERY specific about it?
  6. Einsteindks
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    Einsteindks Member

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    I don't see theming, rooting or clocking a device as 'moding'. Manufacturer's specs deal with the hardware, not software. A Corvette is still a Corvette, but will perform differently if you put Granny or Al Under Jr at the wheel.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using DroidForums
  7. Dave12308
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    Dave12308 New Member

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    Well, aside from stealing services from them, or physically walking into a store and stealing a device; there aren't a whole lot of other ways to steal from them. Wireless tethering is offered as a paid add-on, so circumventing that fee IS stealing. I never said I agreed with it, I don't think anything that uses your data plan that you already pay for should require an extra fee. But the fact is, if they catch you AND if they actually care enough to do anything about it, it could result in termination of your contract.
  8. Dave12308
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    Dave12308 New Member

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    See, the thing is it's their network, so they can tell you what you can and cannot run on it. A simple custom ROM doesn't fundamentally change the way the device works with the network, but something like a Cheescake "ROM" which actually changes the baseband code does. My opinion is that most of the people that would notice this sort of thing probably don't care, my point was that I simply noticed this in the TOS and figured that if they wanted to take the time to lose a paying customer over something fundamentally harmless, they technically could.
  9. DunDun
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    DunDun New Member

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    Hmm... (c) "spam," or engage in other abusive messaging or calling.... (d) modify your device from its manufacturer's specifications

    So tweeting (via my Bionic) that VZW's idea of charging two dollars for paying my bill via phone or online with a credit card could cause me to have my service cut?

    or

    That the locked bootloaders infringes on my freedom as an American, and that using a contract to withhold my constitutional rights is un American and evil! lol
  10. jsan2727
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    jsan2727 New Member

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    I agree with the highlighted part of what you said, but SHOW me in the TOS where is says NOT to tether. It doesn't say it anywhere. They have the ability to word it in such a way that it would be very clear. I believe my point still stands, they have not included it(yet).
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  11. Arodnum1
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    Arodnum1 New Member

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    Yes, so give your grandma your phone, then your analogy works, it would be more like swapping the 6L engine for a 7L engine, your actually modifying the car itself, not the operator

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using DroidForums
  12. Aceunderfire
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    Aceunderfire New Member

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    Yes but once you buy a Corvette you have the right to mod it in any way you deem and it's still a vette. Even if you are paying on it. That is your right. If you lease the car that is another. Story. We Buy These phones not lease them. Why do they care anyway we buy a new device but if we exchange it under warranty we get a refurbished. That really don't make sense.

    Sent from my DROID3 using DroidForums
  13. Arodnum1
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    Arodnum1 New Member

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    Throw an aftermarket suspension on your Corvette, garuntee you the warranty is gone, try the exhaust, same thing, i'm not arguing that its a good practice, it shouldn't be like that, but you have to see where the company is coming from

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using DroidForums
  14. oldguy
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    oldguy New Member

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    Tethering is not stealing. I pay for more bandwidth and minutes than I ever use. USB tethering is activated free in a stock Bionic. WIFI hotspot isn't. VZW charges for the service of activating the hotspot--not for any other service that they perform. They make it difficult for users to perform that simple service for ourselves by locking down a device that we pay full price for. If I perform that service for myself it is like generating my own electricity or wiring my own water heater. It is certainly not theft. Their infrastructure and their labor perform no additional services because of my action than what I have already overpaid for. The reason they don't cut your service is because they know that charging you twenty bucks a month for flipping a switch so you can use bandwidth you already paid for will look to a jury more like the real definition of theft. The real theft of services is not refunding me for unused bandwidth and minutes that I prepaid.

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using DroidForums
  15. jcwilliams
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    jcwilliams New Member

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    Agreed!
  16. LtKen
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    LtKen New Member

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    I would argue that technically, it is stealing. That being said, I have no problem with it in this particular instance.
  17. Aceunderfire
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    Aceunderfire New Member

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    I do see their point to an extent, you can mod ur vette without loosing warranty all part and service must be done by dealer. When your parts are warrantied u get brand-new dealer parts. They need to. Do the same like for example. If you mod your phone you get the refurbished replacement. If you don't then you get a new replacement. Mark my words when Verizon figures out how to capitalize the Modding community for a profit they will have a mod department. I doo see their side but it is unfair in the way customers are treated. For example I had them warranty replace my dx2 after a day of running it I bought the d3. A month went buy and I wanted to go back to my dx2 because root wasn't obtained on d3 yet. When I got my dx2 out it was dead. Would not turn on for nothing. Verizon tried to not warranty replace it again because they said once a phone is removed from the account it was on it can no longer be warrantied replaced. After arguing with them for awhile they warrantied it. I had the dx2 for 2 months and went through three. The origanl dx is by far my favorite. But love the keyboard on the d3

    Sent from my DROID3 using DroidForums
  18. Arodnum1
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    Arodnum1 New Member

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    I do see where your coming from and I do agree, Verizon is all about what can I do that will make Verizon the most money, if they can finagle their way out of a replacement or warranty they will go to the ends of the earth, it sucks we must deal with them

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using DroidForums
  19. RETG
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    RETG Member

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    I see your tweeting or messages as being a constitional right to state anything you want so long as it is not threatening; however, trying to figure out where the constitution states you can unlock a bootloader.
  20. MdicnMan
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    MdicnMan New Member

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    Not to derail the thread, but I thought it was worth mentioning that this is not actually true. The Magnuson-Moss act protects owners from their [full] warranty being voided by adding after market equipment unless that equipment directly casues a failure.
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