so... 550mhz?

Discussion in 'Android Hacks and Help' started by Sam, Oct 25, 2009.

  1. rushmore
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    rushmore Member

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    In theory, yes, but the problems is Android apps and its SDK are higher level due to the need for apps to be compatible with many chipsets. iPhone on the other hand has a more robust SDK with more API access since they only have to design for a few chipsets. The result is lower level code options for iPhone's OS and more efficient and more powerful apps by third parties.
  2. limaxray
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    limaxray New Member

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    I think there is a bit of misunderstanding - the OMAP3430 in the Droid is a SoC that contains not just the CPU and GPU, but also a DSP and an image processor. Looking at the break down pics, there is no separate GPU.

    Also, part of the reason for under clocking is not just to save battery life, but also to extend the life of the processor. TI gives different MTBF ratings for the OMAP depending on the clock speed. So while it *can* do 600 MHz, it does significantly shorten the life of the chip. The OMAP36xx chips are built using a 45nm process and can do up to 1 GHz. The multicore OMAP4s can do over 1 GHz.

    I think the Snapdragon will always be slightly behind in terms of performance - they are just releasing chips now that exceed the performance of the 2 year old OMAP3. The real advantage of these chips however is that they include the cellular modem and GPS onto a single package. This means devices using them can be made much smaller for comparable performance.
  3. hazydave
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    hazydave New Member

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    The DROID is using the Texas Instruments OMAP 3430 processor. This is very much a System-on-a-Chip design, including the ARM Cortex A8 CPU, the POWERVR SGX GPU, TI's IVA-2+ media processor (accelerates video encoding/decoding), and an image processor (primarily for camera input). The media processor and much of the other bits are enhanced versions of the modules in TI's DaVinci processor line, which have been in many if not most of the high-end PMPs lately (Archos, Cowon, etc)... at least before the nVidia Tegra came out.

    It also includes nearly all the I/O needed in the system, aside from the radio/baseband processors themselves. See info here:

    OMAP™ 3 Processors - OMAP3430

    The iPhone 3GS is believed to use a version of the Samsung S5PC100 processor. Apple and Samsung have been mum about the iPhone specifics, but the S5PC100 is documented (see link). This has similar units for video, 3D, and image processing, as you might expect.

    http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...wnloads/systemlsi/s5pc100_brochure_200902.pdf

    Only recent smart phones have this level of processor... the DROID, the iPhone 3GS, the Palm Pre (also uses the TI3430), maybe a few others. Older smart phones are more likely to use an ARM-11 or Marvell (formerly Intel, formerly formerly DEC) XScale (nee StrongARM) applications processor. The Cortex offers a much improved floating point unit, the NEON SIMD instruction set (like SSE on the x86), and 2-issue superscalar operation, versus single issue on the ARM-11 (both in-order).
  4. New2u
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    New2u DF Super Moderator

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    I think the main confusion really comes from the amount of articles that more or less state one thing or another. Here are a few examples of what i mean.

    All taken from separate websites.
  5. hazydave
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    hazydave New Member

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    More HW ramblings...

    Yeah, there's definitely a bit of confusion there. The reality is that none of the PowerVR designs have been available as separate chips for quite some time. They're only sold as IP cores, like ARM CPUs, which is why so many different manufacturers (TI, Samsung, Intel, etc) use these cores (Intel calls theirs the GMA500, but it's really an SGX535). For those interested in the history, a forerunner of the PowerVR was in the Sega Dreamcast video game console.

    The DROID is clearly based on the SGX530, but I can't find mention of the clock speed -- also fairly meaningful when benchmarking a 3D pipeline. There have been accounts of both the SGX520 and the SGX535 being the version in the iPhone 3GS. Earlier iPhones used the MBX-Lite GPU at around 100MHz. However, the only mention in the context of the actual Samsung S5PC100 claims it's a SGX530 at 100MHz... same as in the OMAP3430. The SGX520 runs about 7 million polygons per second (about 3x to 7x faster than the regular iPhone)... assuming it's run at the full 200MHz possible for that core. The SGX530 doubles this, the SGX535 doubles it again.

    The interesting thing is that, full screen, the iPhone 3GS only needs the SGX520 to keep pace with a DROID at full screen, since the DROID has 2.6x times as many pixels to paint. One possible source of the SGX535 story in the iPhone... there's a "IMGSGX535GLDriver" file, apparently the driver. Thing is, all versions of the SGX5xx use the same driver, so that's not necessarily reliable evidence.

    The differences should be obvious, comparing a 3D benchmark of the older iPhone to the 3GS. Also interesting would be Android-based 3D benchmarks, though relating those to the iPhone (or other handhelds) would be curious, but not necessarily scaled well... there are plenty of system-level issues that could make one system or the other better here, not just the HW.

    A quick look at 3GS benchmarks suggests the 3GS is doing 2x-4x the performance of the 3G on 3D benchmarks. That's more along the lines of what you'd expect out of the SGX520... or it's an indication the bottleneck lies elsewhere ... which would make the SGX535 pointless, anyway. Another benchmark (by Laszlo Kishonti) got 5.2 million triangles per second... which suggests either an SGX520 at 200MHz or an SGX530 at 100MHz. Hmmmm....
  6. Mr1986
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    Mr1986 New Member

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    [​IMG]
  7. DroidxRage
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    DroidxRage New Member

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    I like this thread, it makes me think.

    :)
  8. mockillo
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    mockillo New Member

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    After we get root, all we have to do is (atleast on other Android devices):
    echo 600000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq

    Or build that into a kernel when someone manages to build a custom kernel for the Droid/Milestone.
  9. New2u
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    New2u DF Super Moderator

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    Overcloaking it from what i understood in many articles is not hard. It's keeping it cool at high Mhz frequencies that's hard, that and the amount of battery usage it uses.
  10. mockillo
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    mockillo New Member

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    It would be stupid to go over the 600Mhz mark anyways, so stick to stock CPU clock and you should be fine.
  11. greg_p
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    greg_p New Member

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    We've been running the cortex A8 to higher freq than 600 :D. It will not harm your phone to run it at600 but battery life will be shorten for sure.
    Anyway the sgx in completely integrated into omap3. There is 4 processors in the 3430: CA8, C64 (dsp), the SGX + the image processor. The ARM has it's own frequency, that is differentiated from ddr/core one.

    By the way, omap3430 is 45nm versus 65nm for snapdragon, which is where come a part of its consumption advantage. The second is the slower frequency, which may not appear as an advantage in front of phone/cpu addicts. But actually it's a significant advantage to spare battery time and achieve sufficient performance.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009