Scratches on screen

[ajarnfalang]

I bought a screen protector for my original Droid and found it to be a waste of money. I took it off and never bought another one, nor will I ever. This is my third Droid (Og, Bionic and now the Maxx) Total waste of money.

Hahahah!

Ok. You win

DON'T BUY SCREEN PROTECTORS. You hear that everyone? It's a waste. Phones never scratch. Screens now are scratch proof. Don't feel like you are risking having to spend hundreds replacing a scratched screen.

That's the funniest post ever. Especially on this thread. Hahahah! I like you.

Hey. Tell me if this sounds familiar:

1) I have never put a screen protector on my razr Maxx, zero scratches, it has been dropped, landed face first, with no scratches.

You know who posted that? This guy:

After a few days of use I appear to have several small scratches on my screen

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

[FoxKat]

Gorilla glass does not have an anti-reflective (anti-glare) coating on it. AR coats are extremely thin and fragile. If it had an AR coat and you tried to polish it, it would be destroyed. Corning is trying to find some way to make Gorilla glass more anti reflective, but hasn't come up with a solution yet. Just try taking any pair of glasses with an AR coat and polishing a lens with toothpaste or some other mild abrasive and see what you get. It's not pretty. You can tell pretty easily if a pair of glasses has an AR coat. If you look at them from a slight angle, they will have a slight bluish tint or reflection to them. They are optimized to transmit most of the visible spectrum, but the shorter wavelength blue light still gets reflected a bit and since the other colors of the spectrum are passing through the lens, it looks bluish. They also smudge super easy, which is a very common complaint of people with AR coats on their glasses.
When you polish out scratches on a phone screen, you are really polishing the glass itself. You can't do it to a pair of glasses because it alters the optics of the lens, but since a phone screen is totally flat and not refracting light through it, it works somewhat.

I agree with all of the above, especially about the changing of the optic curve of the lens when polishing out scratches in glasses. One thing to mention though, if you try to polish out any scratches in a Gorilla Glass screen, you will be effectively removing the micro-thin layer of doped glass which comprises the "Gorilla Glass" feature.

The glass is glass...nothing more, though it is unique in its flexibility. It looks like a smooth surface to the naked eye, but what appears under a microscope is actually a surface of pits and islands. Scratches occur when an abrasive bumps into one of those islands or catches the edge of one of those pits.

What makes it "Gorilla Glass" and therefore scratch and break resistant is the ion exchange treatment done to the surface of the finished glass The glass is run through a 400 degree Centigrade molten salt bath. This salt bath works at molecular level by causing smaller Sodium ions to be released from the surface of the glass and replaced with larger Potassium ions. When the glass cools, the larger ions compress and fill in these pits and raises them to the height of the islands, essentially filling in microscopic openings in the glass surface. The result is a much flatter and smoother surface.

With less pits and islands for an abrasive to catch on and create a scratch with, scratches are fewer and less obvious and the scratches that do occur don't "travel" keeping them very narrow and shallow. It's the latter benefit of less "travel" that makes the glass therefore less susceptible to breakage, since breakage starts at a stress point and scratches are the most likely stress point.

An anti scratch screen protector is totally invisible. I have one on now. There is 0 difference. Unless you get anti fingerprint screen protector.

I'm sure, if you give me your phone, I will find scratches on it. There is no way it has no scratches at all. No way after 2 years.

If you had a screen protector on the new phone, this wouldn't have happened.

My friend with an Omnia told me the same thing you're telling me now. When I finally saw the phone I told him to turn the screen off and it was full of small scratches.

They ALL scratch.

Yes, they ALL scratch.

Sorry, I used the wrong language for the coating. Not anti-reflective or anti-glare. It's oleophobic. Thanks for getting the terminology correct.

My main point is the same, though. There's a coating on the glass. It will scratch.

Again, all glass scratches, whether coated or not, and to say that the coating is the only part scratching or that it is scratching because it's the coating is not an accurate statement.

The glass will scratch even more without the coating.

There have been tests done with pictures and the naked Gorilla Glass gets scratched more than the one with the coating.

Gorilla Glass has a certain level of scratch resistance. Anything from a grain of sand to any other mineral will scratch the screen.

Just a tiny grain of sand in your pocket from anywhere will scratch your screen.

Ditto.

 

[FoxKat]

All that being said, I know that screens can get scratches. I also am not too worried about these small, almost invisible, scratches. My main beef is that I had this phone for 4 days, constantly in and out of my pocket with no screen protector, and no scratches....I put the Verizon shell/holster on the phone for 1 day and I get those scratches while in the holster.

I know there were not scratches on the phone before the holster because, well, I was always looking at this beautiful phone!!!

I was at a theme park, with my holster and my phone in my room under lock and key, and it got those scratches during that time.

I saw the scratches immediately after pulling it out of the holster upon returning to my room.

So, either I was simply so blinded by my phones beauty that I ignored the scratches, or they were caused by the holster combo some how....a mystery that I will probably never solve!!!

Sent from my beauty of a Droid Maxx using Tapatalk 2

I would speculate that the holster had some abrasives inside it where it comes in contact with the screen while being inserted or removed and which either got there from being dirty, or the plastic itself has impurities which are of an abrasive nature. Arguably - nothing that is man-made is 100% pure, and so even plastic can have enough impurities at microscopic level to be abrasive to much harder materials. Another way that screens can become scratched is in pouches, or in cases that have a built-in screen shield, as dirt gets wedged between the shield and the phone and rubs during normal use, or when inserting and removing... At the end of the day, the only way to effectively prevent most scratches is with a good adhesive-based screen protector.

 

[donzz]

Hahahah!

Ok. You win

DON'T BUY SCREEN PROTECTORS. You hear that everyone? It's a waste. Phones never scratch. Screens now are scratch proof. Don't feel like you are risking having to spend hundreds replacing a scratched screen.

That's the funniest post ever. Especially on this thread. Hahahah! I like you.

Hey. Tell me if this sounds familiar:



You know who posted that? This guy:



AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

4 years of Droids and no scratches! Unless you're putting this 5" Droid in your pocket (WOW) why would you need a screen protector? It degrades the sensitivity of the screen, smears finger prints and takes away from the overall beauty when looking at ie pictures, maps and movies. Go Naked is the consensus on most threads. That being said, I'm sure there are personal situations where someone would need a SP, like maybe you work in a foundry?

 

[TatDroid]

Again, all glass scratches, whether coated or not, and to say that the coating is the only part scratching or that it is scratching because it's the coating is not an accurate statement.

I agree, and did not mean to suggest it's the only reason your Gorilla Glass screen gets scratched. However, if I understand the concept of "coating" correctly, it is on top and will therefore be the FIRST thing to get scratched.

 

[jkaod]

I agree, and did not mean to suggest it's the only reason your Gorilla Glass screen gets scratched. However, if I understand the concept of "coating" correctly, it is on top and will therefore be the FIRST thing to get scratched.

You are correct in that a coating is on top of the glass and would be the first thing to get scratched, but as FoxKat said, Gorilla glass does not have a coating. It goes through an ion exchange that helps to strengthen it. Most crystals are formed with the molecules very orderly arranged and tightly packed. This is how diamond is formed. That structure along with the electical bonds between the atoms, makes it extemely hard and very very scratch resistant. Glass on the other hand is molten silica and then when it cools, it forms glass. The normal orderly crystaline structure is not found in glass. The molecules are randomly arranged and therefore the bonds are not as tight between them. A surface is hard if you can't push the molecules out of the way very easily.

Corning takes the glass and through ion exchange replaces sodium ions with potassium ions within the glass. That strengthens it and makes it more scratch resistant as the molecules now have tighter bonds between them. This ion exchange pentrates into the glass a little bit and is not only on the surface. It is not a coating so it doesn't get scratched off. If you were to try to polish it vigorously, you could penetrate deep enough that you remove much of the potassium that has been infused in the glass and therefore make the surface softer and more prone to scratches. It would polish out the scratch, but then it would be easier to scratch it after the polish job. This is also why making Gorilla glass "anti-reflective" is so difficult. An anti reflective coating (AR) is easy to do, but any AR coat is very soft and scratch prone compared to glass. I anticipate that any AR treatment to Gorilla Glass 4 as has been rumored, will be more of a surface treament than a coating and will help to reduce reflections a little bit, but not anywhere near as good as a true AR coat.

Sorry for the mini physics/chemistry discussion. The optics of AR coats is a much longer discussion, so I will refrain...unless ya'll really want to hear it:biggrin:.

 

[FoxKat]

I agree, and did not mean to suggest it's the only reason your Gorilla Glass screen gets scratched. However, if I understand the concept of "coating" correctly, it is on top and will therefore be the FIRST thing to get scratched.

OK, so let's not get hung up on technicalities as I am often inclined to do. Yes, a coating would be on top, and if it is scratched it MAY leave a visible mark, however it may not. What type of coating it is - that is, whether it has optical refraction qualities (i.e. causes the light to bend in any way, changes the wavelengths of light that pass through versus get reflected back as was referred to by another member earlier), will determine whether if "scratched" or otherwise removed it will leave a visible scar. I don't think (though I may be wrong), that the oleophobic coating would leave a visible scar if scratched off of a portion of the glass surface.

Oleophobic coatings are in the range of 2 - 10 NM in thickness, which in itself may be so thin that it's virtually undetectable to the naked eye. Also, the coating may be technically "on" the surface, however remember we're talking about a surface that is full of pits and islands. So what seems like a flat surface to you is actually very rough. The "coating" will actually "fill in" the tiny surface imperfections and will therefore be thicker (we're talking NM here), than where the coating is able to adhere to the islands (if at all). In order for the oleophobic coating to work properly, it has to smooth out the imperfections as much as possible so as to remove any that the oil can latch onto, hence the oil then beads up and looks like it's not there - mostly.

Here's a few pics of a similar process using a hydrophobic coating (reject water). You'll see the (simulated) surface of the glass, then see the coating applied over a portion of it, then you'll see actual working versions of uncoated and coated glass. The idea is that the water doesn't want to adhere (attach) to the glass.



I am simply trying to get across the point that for our purposes, we think of most (if not all), scratches on the screens of our phones to be scratches to the actual glass surface. I would bet that 99.98% - 100% of all scratches fall under that realm.

 

[jkaod]

I think you are exactly correct on the oleophobic coating scratches being invisible due to the thinness of the layer. An AR coat would be at least 1/4 wavelenth in thickness so since they are optimized for the wavelength of maximum human retinal sensitivity (about 550nm) it would be at minimum about 135nm. They have to be an odd number of 1/4 wavelengths in thickness so in any event, they are way thicker that any oleophobic coating so scratches in an AR coat are very obvious.

FoxKat, I'm not sure anyone else cares about our discussion of optics, but I like it. It's part of what I do every day. I think we're getting too science geeky for everyone else. Sorry.

 

[TheOldFart]

I think you are exactly correct on the oleophobic coating scratches being invisible due to the thinness of the layer. An AR coat would be at least 1/4 wavelenth in thickness so since they are optimized for the wavelength of maximum human retinal sensitivity (about 550nm) it would be at minimum about 135nm. They have to be an odd number of 1/4 wavelengths in thickness so in any event, they are way thicker that any oleophobic coating so scratches in an AR coat are very obvious.

FoxKat, I'm not sure anyone else cares about our discussion of optics, but I like it. It's part of what I do every day. I think we're getting too science geeky for everyone else. Sorry.

I never designed optics, but I was a ME before I retired, so keep up the geeky optics talk.

 

[TatDroid]

Sorry for the mini physics/chemistry discussion. The optics of AR coats is a much longer discussion, so I will refrain...unless ya'll really want to hear it:biggrin:.

Very informative. Thanks for setting me straight!

 

[FoxKat]

TatDroid...upon re-reading through the thread it may have felt like we were trying to prove you wrong...and that's certainly not the intent. What we didn't want you (or any other members watching), to do though is make decisions due to, or be disgruntled about a situation for the wrong reasons. A scratch is a scratch, no matter how it's caused, no matter whether it's in a coating of some sort, or in the actual glass surface. None of that really matters to the end user. What does matter is how easily a scratch comes about, what can be done to prevent it, whether it leads to eventual breakage of the screen glass, and I suppose most importantly from a user's standpoint whether it is visible and detracts from the user experience or not.

We've hashed this out pretty well. The conclusion... Glass will scratch with the right parameters, no matter what anyone else tells you. Scratched glass is less visually appealing than glass that's pristine...but we all know that. Glass that's scratched can impede proper visibility of the screen. Scratches can become a real OCD problem...you keep rubbing your fingernail over it, looking at it, bumming out about it. Scratches detract from the value of the phone. And scratches can lead to early failure of the glass due to setting up stress in the glass surface...all it takes to create a full crack then is a bump in the right place, and it might not even require a bump, a simple flexing of the phone, an expansion of the battery, any number of things that will impart torque or pressure on the screen can take a scratch and turn it into a crack.

What can be done to protect... The answers are relatively simple. Install a good screen protector the moment you open the box, and BEFORE you've even touched the screen. If you do this, the screen will look as beautiful 2 years from now as it does straight out of the packaging. If the screen wasn't protected already, you can install a screen protector at some later date, and two things will happen; One, the existing scratches - if any will virtually disappear from sight. Two, the future of the screen will be much brighter as it will be protected from any future scratches.

What other things can you do to reduce the likelihood of scratches... WASH YOUR HANDS!! I can't stress this enough. It takes only a microscopic grain of abrasive material (what looks like dirt to you), stuck in one of your fingerprint lines to be rubbed on the screen as you are unlocking, swyping, selecting, etc. to create a very visible, but very superficial scratch that will bug the heck out of you from now until you replace the phone. DON'T use cases that you "slide" the phone into, if that case has ANY part which touches the screen while being inserted or removed, and no matter what that case is made of, man-made or natural (such as leather). Any dirt on (or impurities in), the material or plastic can scratch the screen. DON'T use a case that has a "screen shield", a plastic sheet that "rests" over the screen while the phone is in the case. Dirt and abrasives can (and will), get behind the shield and adhere to the plastic shield, and then will rub and mar, blemish, scratch the screen even while simply being carried in your pocket, purse or on your belt.

What you should NOT do... NEVER, I repeat NEVER use ANY type of POLISH, no matter how "mild" it may be marketed as being. ANY abrasives will detract from the screen's ability to withstand future scratching by actually removing a portion of the surface that's been treated to protect it from scratches. You MAY remove or diminish the appearance of existing scratches, but you will CERTAINLY be revisiting that process again and far sooner, and as time goes on you'll be chasing your tail.

 

[TheOldFart]

While a scratch in the glass will result in a stress concentration that will make it more likely for the glass to crack if flexed through many cycles over time or a significant one time flex, I wonder if the manufacturing imperfections at the edge of the glass are even greater crack propagation points then a scratch.

 

[ajarnfalang]

4 years of Droids and no scratches! Unless you're putting this 5" Droid in your pocket (WOW) why would you need a screen protector? It degrades the sensitivity of the screen, smears finger prints and takes away from the overall beauty when looking at ie pictures, maps and movies. Go Naked is the consensus on most threads. That being said, I'm sure there are personal situations where someone would need a SP, like maybe you work in a foundry?

Tell that to the guy who opened this thread. I have a screen film so I don't worry about it.

The only way to be 100% protected from scratches is a screen protector.

And when you're paying $700+ for a phone, I don't want to take chances, like your guy who opened this thread who thought JUST LIKE YOU.

Toodles!

 

[FoxKat]

While a scratch in the glass will result in a stress concentration that will make it more likely for the glass to crack if flexed through many cycles over time or a significant one time flex, I wonder if the manufacturing imperfections at the edge of the glass are even greater crack propagation points then a scratch.

There's significant reason to question this. So many times, the glass cracks in a typical spider pattern radiating from an initial impact point at an edge.

 

[cybertj.2000]

Hahahah!

Ok. You win

DON'T BUY SCREEN PROTECTORS. You hear that everyone? It's a waste. Phones never scratch. Screens now are scratch proof. Don't feel like you are risking having to spend hundreds replacing a scratched screen.

That's the funniest post ever. Especially on this thread. Hahahah! I like you.

Hey. Tell me if this sounds familiar:



You know who posted that? This guy:



AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

You are correct, I posted both comments....however, if you read, one was about my DROID RAZR MAXX and the other is in regards to my new DROID MAXX. Different phones. Please read comments in detail before you attempt to make a snide remark or to say that I'm in some way contradicting myself. Thank you.

Sent from my Droid Maxx!!!