sbf

[dipsetdiplomat]

No problem.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using DroidForums App

 

[NattyBee]

I must humbly disagree with the last few statements...
First... to preface what I am about to say, I have never in my 12 or 13 years of high speed internet access gotten in a message board war, but I must in this case since I started this thread after i bricked my phone trying to get it to be a stock android, android phone... i bricked it (stuck at the M), and got VZW to give me a new one gratis (minus a 30 odd dollar restocking fee that I was fine with (considering they paid next day air shipping))

Verizon is a multi billion dollar company, as is moto to a lesser extent. The hardware they retail together is deliberately crippled in order to allow them to squeeze every last cent from the consumer. The example I will use is the wireless hotspot vs. wireless tether paradox. The phone can do this feature natively, but verizon makes this not possible without paying them tribute. When the consumer attempts to maximize (or simply optimize) the hardware they bought weather at a subsidized or unsubsidized price, and the process is overly complicated, difficult or at times impossible, and the consumer breaks/brick/renders unusable a piece of hardware during the attempt, and then tries to get a new piece of hardware for free, how can you fault them...
Most likely VZW will get the old phone back, fix it and sell it again, with the consumer paying a fair restocking fee. But to fault the consumer for bricking a phone in the process of getting the phone to act like it should is absurd.
It is a victimless crime, the billion dollar corporate entity gets your 60, 120, 160 buck a month regardless, you have a new phone, and they have a refurbished one.

Oh, and the argument that it is people breaking their phones then trying to get vzw or whomever to replace it causes harder and harder levels of hardware protection furthering the downward spiral, i call shenanigans. The corporations do that regardless to get every last cent from the consumer they can.

Now to seep to a ad hominem level attack on anyone who would defend verizon, your probably a republican or libertarian, and to quote radiohead, when I am king you will be first against the wall.

Peace I'm out... I'm going overseas next week with my banging world phone all unlocked, romed and rooted out.

p.s. thanks dipset. go camron!

I'm sorry if you feel attacked, but as FSRBiker has mentioned- you, Jim, and anyone else with problems have a HUGE community of friends to turn to for help/advice, including myself. I help many people in need, sometimes working with them a full day until we get them straight, and I know for a fact that both FSRBiker and Jolly also help many people, on a weekly and sometimes daily basis, so please please understand our side of this argument. The Dev's work hard to bring you options in saving yourself, those of us involved in tech support work always to help others, and the majority of this community (not just DF, but all the Android modding community) is full of FRIENDS willing to help each other the best we can. And we all have been warned many times over before ever modding our devices, we all know well the consequences of our actions.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[saulback]

Let me know if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that these phones are bricking because they are locked down. If they were never locked down, we wouldn't have a problem bricking, and Verizon wouldn't get as many warranty returns. The real problem I see here is the laziness on Jim's part (and others) helps Verizon and Moto justify themselves in locking down these phones.

It seems like everyone here is upset because what Jim has done will upset the VeriMoto gods and they will punish us with more extremely locked phones. The locks are coming regardless of what anyone here does. They would be coming if there were no warranty returns whatsoever. But when the android community complains to VeriMoto, they will point at Jim and say that he broke his phone and still got a free one in return, so they have to lock down there phone.

 

[NattyBee]

Let me know if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that these phones are bricking because they are locked down. If they were never locked down, we wouldn't have a problem bricking, and Verizon wouldn't get as many warranty returns. The real problem I see here is the laziness on Jim's part (and others) helps Verizon and Moto justify themselves in locking down these phones.

It seems like everyone here is upset because what Jim has done will upset the VeriMoto gods and they will punish us with more extremely locked phones. The locks are coming regardless of what anyone here does. They would be coming if there were no warranty returns whatsoever. But when the android community complains to VeriMoto, they will point at Jim and say that he broke his phone and still got a free one in return, so they have to lock down there phone.

I'm sure there have been more than a few bricks before the locked bootloader. This may not be the sole cause of the lockdown, but it's certainly a contributing factor, and it definitely doesn't help our argument on the side of unlocking them. Nobody is perfect, but at least we try to be honest/honorable and take responsibility for our own actions.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[DropC]

Wow. I'll admit, I've had to sent a lot of X's back (I'm on number five now), but they were all for legitimate reasons. To send one back because you broke it yourself, and to trick them or lie, is wrong. It costs them some degree of money, no matter what. I'm sure that Motorola would ease up if people would stop sending them "broken" phones constantly. I wouldn't be surprised if HTC or Samsung started taking harsher precautions to stop modders if this continues.

And if anyone is wondering, the reason I sent the X's back are:
1. Stagefright broke my media. I didn't know how to fix it myself back then.
2. It came to me scratched up and with dead pixels.
3. The camera hardware started acting REALLY weird, no matter what I did.
4. It came to me scratched up and had a faulty power button -.-

I've bricked my phone(s) collectively around three times now. Once, I spent six hours non-stop on the computer fixing it. I never sent one back because I was too stupid to know how to fix something that I broke myself. I sent them back for manufacturing defects.

 

[b16a2smith]

Well wow you got me back into a forum just to come in here and say something.

First off, dude you have no business modding, what you did is the equivalent of theft. Did you not realize "the multi-billion dollar franchises" jack prices up due to shop lifting and all kinds of other crooked things that the consumers do?

Second, you went wrong with thinking because you have multiple phones that makes you good at it, sorry dude, but every phone is different.

Third, don't play with the big dogs if you don't like getting bit.

Fourth, if you're one of the many in here, you can go back under the bridge and keep trolling on your own turf, not here.

b16

 

[burpootus]

This is an interesting thread. I agree with the Dev's who have chimed in that you shouldn't return a phone you've bricked (not a lot of phones are truly bricked anyway). But I think Moto and Verizon are highly culpable in what's going on here. Maintaining control for profit reasons are why phones are increasingly being locked down. I would be willing to bet that the business of taking returns and refurbishing them and reselling them, even including the phones truly bricked through overclocking or other damage, is a business that is profited from just like all their other business. Locking devices down will continue and get worse, not because of the modders, but for the profit potential. The general public really could care less, even if they knew any better. Modders could stop buying phones tomorrow and the companies wouldn't even notice it. That is the only thing that could stop the slide towards losing control of the devices, if everybody started expecting the same level of openness they get with their computers. Would even the general public accept a locked down computer? Does making computers open lead to more bricked computers and higher costs for computer manufacturers? They say, "I'm sorry, you'll have to use these restore discs to return your computer to it's original state before I can help you any further". Seems to work pretty good, you mess your stuff up, you got some grief coming.

 

[Jolly]

Let me know if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that these phones are bricking because they are locked down. If they were never locked down, we wouldn't have a problem bricking, and Verizon wouldn't get as many warranty returns. The real problem I see here is the laziness on Jim's part (and others) helps Verizon and Moto justify themselves in locking down these phones.

It seems like everyone here is upset because what Jim has done will upset the VeriMoto gods and they will punish us with more extremely locked phones. The locks are coming regardless of what anyone here does. They would be coming if there were no warranty returns whatsoever. But when the android community complains to VeriMoto, they will point at Jim and say that he broke his phone and still got a free one in return, so they have to lock down there phone.

The locks aren't coming regardless of they're coming because of. If people were honorable and didn't try to cheat the Carriers and Manufacturers. If people didn't abuse the System then the locks would be less likely. Sending a phone back for a legitimate defect is understandable sending the phone back and lying because you bricked is wrong.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

 

[saulback]

Let me know if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that these phones are bricking because they are locked down. If they were never locked down, we wouldn't have a problem bricking, and Verizon wouldn't get as many warranty returns. The real problem I see here is the laziness on Jim's part (and others) helps Verizon and Moto justify themselves in locking down these phones.

It seems like everyone here is upset because what Jim has done will upset the VeriMoto gods and they will punish us with more extremely locked phones. The locks are coming regardless of what anyone here does. They would be coming if there were no warranty returns whatsoever. But when the android community complains to VeriMoto, they will point at Jim and say that he broke his phone and still got a free one in return, so they have to lock down there phone.

The locks aren't coming regardless of they're coming because of. If people were honorable and didn't try to cheat the Carriers and Manufacturers. If people didn't abuse the System then the locks would be less likely. Sending a phone back for a legitimate defect is understandable sending the phone back and lying because you bricked is wrong.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

That doesn't make much sense to me. The logic just isn't there.
More stricter locks = more bricked phones = more dishonest returns = less profit.

Not to mention the costs of creating the security crap and maintaining it. I'm not saying Jolly is wrong, I'm just saying that if this is what the carriers and manufacturers are doing, they are doing it wrong.

Someone else mentioned that even without the locks there were still bricks, probably less, but still bricks. What if Verizon went the other way. Made it easier to mod and recover from bricked phones.
Less locks = less bricked phones; the phones that did manage to get bricked could be brought in to a Verizon store, plugged in and sbf'd on the spot. No need to return a phone.

Granted there would be the true bricks, but if V and M worked more on preventing the bricks instead of creating an environment where bricks multiply like rabbits, the world would be a better place. And Bush and Osama would sit down for a cup of tea.

What I'm trying to say is this: If something is wrong with hardware, that's one thing. But if phones are being returned solely because some software got messed up, something is wrong. Software should be able to be easily restored, especially by the manufacturer.

 

[Jolly]

Let me know if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that these phones are bricking because they are locked down. If they were never locked down, we wouldn't have a problem bricking, and Verizon wouldn't get as many warranty returns. The real problem I see here is the laziness on Jim's part (and others) helps Verizon and Moto justify themselves in locking down these phones.

It seems like everyone here is upset because what Jim has done will upset the VeriMoto gods and they will punish us with more extremely locked phones. The locks are coming regardless of what anyone here does. They would be coming if there were no warranty returns whatsoever. But when the android community complains to VeriMoto, they will point at Jim and say that he broke his phone and still got a free one in return, so they have to lock down there phone.

The locks aren't coming regardless of they're coming because of. If people were honorable and didn't try to cheat the Carriers and Manufacturers. If people didn't abuse the System then the locks would be less likely. Sending a phone back for a legitimate defect is understandable sending the phone back and lying because you bricked is wrong.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

That doesn't make much sense to me. The logic just isn't there.
More stricter locks = more bricked phones = more dishonest returns = less profit.

Not to mention the costs of creating the security crap and maintaining it. I'm not saying Jolly is wrong, I'm just saying that if this is what the carriers and manufacturers are doing, they are doing it wrong.

Someone else mentioned that even without the locks there were still bricks, probably less, but still bricks. What if Verizon went the other way. Made it easier to mod and recover from bricked phones.
Less locks = less bricked phones; the phones that did manage to get bricked could be brought in to a Verizon store, plugged in and sbf'd on the spot. No need to return a phone.

Granted there would be the true bricks, but if V and M worked more on preventing the bricks instead of creating an environment where bricks multiply like rabbits, the world would be a better place. And Bush and Osama would sit down for a cup of tea.

What I'm trying to say is this: If something is wrong with hardware, that's one thing. But if phones are being returned solely because some software got messed up, something is wrong. Software should be able to be easily restored, especially by the manufacturer.

Logical or not locks are coming and it's because people are taking advantage of the Carriers and Manufacturers. I will agree that non locked down phones are easier to fix. But if you make the phone unmodable then they don't have to worry about people taking advantage of the return policies.



Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

 

[NattyBee]

Let me know if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that these phones are bricking because they are locked down. If they were never locked down, we wouldn't have a problem bricking, and Verizon wouldn't get as many warranty returns. The real problem I see here is the laziness on Jim's part (and others) helps Verizon and Moto justify themselves in locking down these phones.

It seems like everyone here is upset because what Jim has done will upset the VeriMoto gods and they will punish us with more extremely locked phones. The locks are coming regardless of what anyone here does. They would be coming if there were no warranty returns whatsoever. But when the android community complains to VeriMoto, they will point at Jim and say that he broke his phone and still got a free one in return, so they have to lock down there phone.

The locks aren't coming regardless of they're coming because of. If people were honorable and didn't try to cheat the Carriers and Manufacturers. If people didn't abuse the System then the locks would be less likely. Sending a phone back for a legitimate defect is understandable sending the phone back and lying because you bricked is wrong.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

That doesn't make much sense to me. The logic just isn't there.
More stricter locks = more bricked phones = more dishonest returns = less profit.

Not to mention the costs of creating the security crap and maintaining it. I'm not saying Jolly is wrong, I'm just saying that if this is what the carriers and manufacturers are doing, they are doing it wrong.

Someone else mentioned that even without the locks there were still bricks, probably less, but still bricks. What if Verizon went the other way. Made it easier to mod and recover from bricked phones.
Less locks = less bricked phones; the phones that did manage to get bricked could be brought in to a Verizon store, plugged in and sbf'd on the spot. No need to return a phone.

Granted there would be the true bricks, but if V and M worked more on preventing the bricks instead of creating an environment where bricks multiply like rabbits, the world would be a better place. And Bush and Osama would sit down for a cup of tea.

The point is: we were all aware of the situation before we began modding our devices. We all knew the increased danger...if you aren't prepared to take responsibility, don’t do it. That doesn't mean go brick the phone and say "hey, it wouldn't be bricked if they didn't lock it! I deserve a free one now- let me go set up a scam because it's their fault." C'mon, wake up!

Oh, and hey think about this: there are alot out there who decided NOT to mod simply because they don’t want to take the risk. That's $$ saved right there. Stop trying to justify scamming and lying- it's wrong, whether or not the locked bootloader makes it easier to brick.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[P3Droid]

Let me know if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that these phones are bricking because they are locked down. If they were never locked down, we wouldn't have a problem bricking, and Verizon wouldn't get as many warranty returns. The real problem I see here is the laziness on Jim's part (and others) helps Verizon and Moto justify themselves in locking down these phones.

It seems like everyone here is upset because what Jim has done will upset the VeriMoto gods and they will punish us with more extremely locked phones. The locks are coming regardless of what anyone here does. They would be coming if there were no warranty returns whatsoever. But when the android community complains to VeriMoto, they will point at Jim and say that he broke his phone and still got a free one in return, so they have to lock down there phone.

The locks aren't coming regardless of they're coming because of. If people were honorable and didn't try to cheat the Carriers and Manufacturers. If people didn't abuse the System then the locks would be less likely. Sending a phone back for a legitimate defect is understandable sending the phone back and lying because you bricked is wrong.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

That doesn't make much sense to me. The logic just isn't there.
More stricter locks = more bricked phones = more dishonest returns = less profit.

Not to mention the costs of creating the security crap and maintaining it. I'm not saying Jolly is wrong, I'm just saying that if this is what the carriers and manufacturers are doing, they are doing it wrong.

Someone else mentioned that even without the locks there were still bricks, probably less, but still bricks. What if Verizon went the other way. Made it easier to mod and recover from bricked phones.
Less locks = less bricked phones; the phones that did manage to get bricked could be brought in to a Verizon store, plugged in and sbf'd on the spot. No need to return a phone.

Granted there would be the true bricks, but if V and M worked more on preventing the bricks instead of creating an environment where bricks multiply like rabbits, the world would be a better place. And Bush and Osama would sit down for a cup of tea.

What I'm trying to say is this: If something is wrong with hardware, that's one thing. But if phones are being returned solely because some software got messed up, something is wrong. Software should be able to be easily restored, especially by the manufacturer.

No matter what has been said in this thread, the underlying fact is not in dispu, what he has done is theft. Pure and simple. You and man others are trying to justify the fraud and theft but it is not a rationale excuse and holds no legitimte or legal weight. You know what we do and how active we are, but we do not believe in defauding or stealing from the companies due to one's own negligence.

Make it sound however nice you want so you can sleep at night but we all pay in our service fees and the price of our phones when you steal. To think otherwise is juvenile and niave.

 

[NattyBee]

The locks aren't coming regardless of they're coming because of. If people were honorable and didn't try to cheat the Carriers and Manufacturers. If people didn't abuse the System then the locks would be less likely. Sending a phone back for a legitimate defect is understandable sending the phone back and lying because you bricked is wrong.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

That doesn't make much sense to me. The logic just isn't there.
More stricter locks = more bricked phones = more dishonest returns = less profit.

Not to mention the costs of creating the security crap and maintaining it. I'm not saying Jolly is wrong, I'm just saying that if this is what the carriers and manufacturers are doing, they are doing it wrong.

Someone else mentioned that even without the locks there were still bricks, probably less, but still bricks. What if Verizon went the other way. Made it easier to mod and recover from bricked phones.
Less locks = less bricked phones; the phones that did manage to get bricked could be brought in to a Verizon store, plugged in and sbf'd on the spot. No need to return a phone.

Granted there would be the true bricks, but if V and M worked more on preventing the bricks instead of creating an environment where bricks multiply like rabbits, the world would be a better place. And Bush and Osama would sit down for a cup of tea.

What I'm trying to say is this: If something is wrong with hardware, that's one thing. But if phones are being returned solely because some software got messed up, something is wrong. Software should be able to be easily restored, especially by the manufacturer.

Logical or not locks are coming and it's because people are taking advantage of the Carriers and Manufacturers. I will agree that non locked down phones are easier to fix. But if you make the phone unmodable then they don't have to worry about people taking advantage of the return policies.



Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

Indeed, and the more they get bricked phones due to modding- the more they will keep trying to lock down tighter and tighter and tighter.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[DropC]

Ok, having a phone locked down doesn't necessarily make it easier to brick. With the X, all you need to do to fix almost any damage is an SBF. If your battery dies in the middle of that SBF, then an unlocked bootloader isn't going to help you. :icon_ banana:

Edit: Not sure if there is an SBF for the D2G... but if there isn't, then you know very well what you're getting in to by modding it without an SBF at hand. I agree with P3Droid fully. All of these excuses are just that: Excuses. Bad ones, too.

 

[NattyBee]

The locks aren't coming regardless of they're coming because of. If people were honorable and didn't try to cheat the Carriers and Manufacturers. If people didn't abuse the System then the locks would be less likely. Sending a phone back for a legitimate defect is understandable sending the phone back and lying because you bricked is wrong.


Sent from my Droid X Running TranQ 3.6.0

That doesn't make much sense to me. The logic just isn't there.
More stricter locks = more bricked phones = more dishonest returns = less profit.

Not to mention the costs of creating the security crap and maintaining it. I'm not saying Jolly is wrong, I'm just saying that if this is what the carriers and manufacturers are doing, they are doing it wrong.

Someone else mentioned that even without the locks there were still bricks, probably less, but still bricks. What if Verizon went the other way. Made it easier to mod and recover from bricked phones.
Less locks = less bricked phones; the phones that did manage to get bricked could be brought in to a Verizon store, plugged in and sbf'd on the spot. No need to return a phone.

Granted there would be the true bricks, but if V and M worked more on preventing the bricks instead of creating an environment where bricks multiply like rabbits, the world would be a better place. And Bush and Osama would sit down for a cup of tea.

What I'm trying to say is this: If something is wrong with hardware, that's one thing. But if phones are being returned solely because some software got messed up, something is wrong. Software should be able to be easily restored, especially by the manufacturer.

No matter what has been said in this thread, the underlying fact is not in dispu, what he has done is theft. Pure and simple. You and man others are trying to justify the fraud and theft but it is not a rationale excuse and holds no legitimte or legal weight. You know what we do and how active we are, but we do not believe in defauding or stealing from the companies due to one's own negligence.

Make it sound however nice you want so you can sleep at night but we all pay in our service fees and the price of our hones when you steal. To think otherwise is juvenile and niave.

You are correct.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk