Rooted 2.2 - Battery issues, lots of apps running

[deggdegg]

Having the apps pre-load in no way does ANYTHING disruptive to the system. It uses no CPU processes

This doesn't make sense to me. Pre-loading an app is going to use SOME CPU processes, even if they're trivial.

 

[robyr]

Having the apps pre-load in no way does ANYTHING disruptive to the system. It uses no CPU processes

This doesn't make sense to me. Pre-loading an app is going to use SOME CPU processes, even if they're trivial.

I have this sinking feeling that you are figuratively pissing in the wind just to "show us" at this point. You have been given the evidence, explanations, and it has been spoon fed to you. Do what you want, but you are doing. it. wrong.

 

[Skull One]

It is smart about it dude. I explained exactly how this process works. All you have to do is read the numerous user testimonials to the fact of disabling task killers increases stability, battery life, and general phone performance.

Seems like being smart would be going "hey, this app keeps getting closed/crashes (force close)... maybe I shouldn't restart it".

If you wish to blame anyone, blame the Application Developer.

Android OS, and I am over simplifying, works on a several premises.

1) Clockrate adjustment based on work load.
2) Maintaining applications in memory based on program requirements.
3) Maintaining applications in memory based on user interaction.

If you will note, I put program requirements before user interaction. The reason for this is simple. Each program has the ability to "hook" itself (register a call back function) to specific events the Android OS exposes. Every time you kill an Application that has a hook to one of the events that occur, it forces the OS to reload that application and catch up to the point it already should have been at. Which is what can lead to unintentional battery drain and system instability.

As the user of the phone you then have two choices. Uninstall the application or live with the Developers intentions.

Now since you are rooted, you can do one extra thing that normal Android OS users can't. That is to delete system applications you don't want to have running.

Killing a task constantly or even automatically when it is hooked to a system event is very counter productive to your goal of longer battery life. It would make more sense for you to simply delete the application.

 

[wingdo]

Having the apps pre-load in no way does ANYTHING disruptive to the system. It uses no CPU processes

This doesn't make sense to me. Pre-loading an app is going to use SOME CPU processes, even if they're trivial.

Here, try this as an experiment.

Grab a program from the market called system panel info.

Disable / remove your auto task killers.

Don't prevent ANYTHING from running.

Restart your phone

Let it run for a day

Go into System Panel Info, look at the running apps, click on one of them, look at CPU usage for any given app.

Right now on a Droid 1, I have 17 active applications, and a measly 31MB of free memory. The phone is snappy as hell, all the apps even ones I know I haven't actually started up ARE needed and have been used by something or other (i.e. just having my phone docked at night to charge will make "clock", "news and weather" both run). Twitter is always running to check for new tweets. In the last 20 hours twitter has used 2 SECONDS of processor time. Why do I need to make this stop?

 

[deggdegg]

If you wish to blame anyone, blame the Application Developer.

Android OS, and I am over simplifying, works on a several premises.

1) Clockrate adjustment based on work load.
2) Maintaining applications in memory based on program requirements.
3) Maintaining applications in memory based on user interaction.

If you will note, I put program requirements before user interaction. The reason for this is simple. Each program has the ability to "hook" itself (register a call back function) to specific events the Android OS exposes. Every time you kill an Application that has a hook to one of the events that occur, it forces the OS to reload that application and catch up to the point it already should have been at. Which is what can lead to unintentional battery drain and system instability.

As the user of the phone you then have two choices. Uninstall the application or live with the Developers intentions.

Now since you are rooted, you can do one extra thing that normal Android OS users can't. That is to delete system applications you don't want to have running.

Killing a task constantly or even automatically when it is hooked to a system event is very counter productive to your goal of longer battery life. It would make more sense for you to simply delete the application.

Yeah, I'm beginning to think more and more that my problem lies with HTC. I actually have my phone to the point now where nothing is starting up automatically that I don't want (I'm not killing it, it's just not starting up at all). So maybe I don't need the task killer now. But could it still be beneficial to kill the user-initiated stuff? I could set ATK to ignore all the auto-starts and just kill the stuff I forget to close manually.

Still, I think it's weird that on 2.1 there wasn't all this stuff starting up. Maybe HTC changed something.

 

[Skull One]

If you wish to blame anyone, blame the Application Developer.

Android OS, and I am over simplifying, works on a several premises.

1) Clockrate adjustment based on work load.
2) Maintaining applications in memory based on program requirements.
3) Maintaining applications in memory based on user interaction.

If you will note, I put program requirements before user interaction. The reason for this is simple. Each program has the ability to "hook" itself (register a call back function) to specific events the Android OS exposes. Every time you kill an Application that has a hook to one of the events that occur, it forces the OS to reload that application and catch up to the point it already should have been at. Which is what can lead to unintentional battery drain and system instability.

As the user of the phone you then have two choices. Uninstall the application or live with the Developers intentions.

Now since you are rooted, you can do one extra thing that normal Android OS users can't. That is to delete system applications you don't want to have running.

Killing a task constantly or even automatically when it is hooked to a system event is very counter productive to your goal of longer battery life. It would make more sense for you to simply delete the application.

Yeah, I'm beginning to think more and more that my problem lies with HTC. I actually have my phone to the point now where nothing is starting up automatically that I don't want (I'm not killing it, it's just not starting up at all). So maybe I don't need the task killer now.

Still, I think it's weird that on 2.1 there wasn't all this stuff starting up. Maybe HTC changed something.

Since HTC is an application developer, that would fit with my explanation very well.

 

[deggdegg]

Since HTC is an application developer, that would fit with my explanation very well.

Cool. I appreciate the reply. I feel like robyr came out swinging from post #1.

 

[wingdo]

Cool. I appreciate the reply. I feel like robyr came out swinging from post #1.

I think robyr came out swinging as you put it because of the way you were disrepectful to one VERY knowledgable Android person (hookbill).

One thing to consider with task killers is that they themselves constantly run, constantly use CPU processes to kill apps which are not using CPU processes, and since they keep running actually eat battery life.

I am running a custom Froyo build (Sapphire) on a D1, overclocked (uses much more battery) by 66%, I use no task killers (I do have SystemPanel info to kill an spp that may misbehave, but that's it's only purpose), and with my setup I can get 16-20 hours of battery with average to light use and a good 12-14 hours with real use. My general observations about Froyo is that I do have poorer battery life, but that could just be in my head.

For the incredible, keep looking for Ruby (same dev as Sapphire) to come along very soon. It'll be an ASOP ROM (i.e. no HTC Sense) which should give you better battery life.

You may also want to check out this article on Droid X and Droid 2 battery life. While it is about the afore mentioned phones, you may find the phone with the WORST battery life in the list interesting. Droid X Comes Out on Top in Android Phone Battery Life Comparisons | Android Phone Fans

 

[deggdegg]

One thing to consider with task killers is that they themselves constantly run, constantly use CPU processes to kill apps which are not using CPU processes, and since they keep running actually eat battery life.
http://phandroid.com/2010/08/25/droid-x-comes-out-on-top-in-android-phone-battery-life-comparisons/

Well, to be fair, if I have my ATK auto-kill disabled, from what you guys are saying it shouldn't be using any extra CPU processes by "running", as it should only actually do anything when I tap it. And if I'm only using it to kill things that won't auto-restart, that should be fine, right?

 

[wingdo]

One thing to consider with task killers is that they themselves constantly run, constantly use CPU processes to kill apps which are not using CPU processes, and since they keep running actually eat battery life.

Well, to be fair, if I have my ATK auto-kill disabled, from what you guys are saying it shouldn't be using any extra CPU processes by "running", as it should only actually do anything when I tap it. And if I'm only using it to kill things that won't auto-restart, that should be fine, right?

In that context yes.

I still challenge you to run that test a few posts up.

 

[RyanPm40]

How can people say task killers don't work? My phone will be freezing and slow as hell, and I kill my apps, and then the phone is speedy again! You can't disprove something like that!

 

[TuBitMittens]

How can people say task killers don't work? My phone will be freezing and slow as hell, and I kill my apps, and then the phone is speedy again! You can't disprove something like that!

The whole thing is absolutely confusing to me to be honest. If it works for you I believe you. Task killers have always been a mystery to me honestly. Some people say they work while others don't. As far as battery goes my battery life has kinda sucked too since I rooted. Even with what I might call 'moderate-heavy use' I still think I should be getting AT LEAST JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE BATTERY THAN what I'm getting. I'm usually lucky to get 10 hours it seems like. However it might be since I'm outta school now so I have more time to play around with my phone.
That being said, it's really hard to tell if it's me just overclocking my phone or the fact I'm using it more. I honestly don't know how I should properly conduct a test. Sometimes I half wish I never rooted my phone cuz all this stuff wouldn't even be a thought to me and I wouldn't be overwhelmed with this other nonsense.
As far as the actual apps go, I'm also perplexed there as well. sometimes my flikie wallpaper app will read 20% battery usage which I don't get at all.
sigh, if I wasn't such a nerd I'd have other things to worry about..-_-

 

[jkhonea]

How can people say task killers don't work? My phone will be freezing and slow as hell, and I kill my apps, and then the phone is speedy again! You can't disprove something like that!

It can easily be explained. You have an app in your system that is poorly written and disrupting the rest of hour phone. I will put money on that. Even the developers of Android software say task killers are not necessary. The beauty of open source is also the Achille's heel. Software can slip through that shouldn't and it ends up causing the problems like you are talking about. It has been documented several times over that task killers cause more problems than they fix. Including eating the devil out of batteries.

I would go through your apps list and figure out the true source of your problem. Either that, or something didn't take right with the rooting of your phone.

 

[Optimus_Primus]

Just uninstalled the app killer after reading this thread. My phone has been buggy, especially pandora, so maybe it was the app killer causing some of the problems. I can say that I am definitely running through more battery since rooting. Don't know the cause, but I am sure that people more knowledgeable than myself are cognizant of the fact and are working to correct it.... sometime we just have to be patient and wait! I have the patience of a mountain!!!

 

[RyanPm40]

How can people say task killers don't work? My phone will be freezing and slow as hell, and I kill my apps, and then the phone is speedy again! You can't disprove something like that!

It can easily be explained. You have an app in your system that is poorly written and disrupting the rest of hour phone. I will put money on that. Even the developers of Android software say task killers are not necessary. The beauty of open source is also the Achille's heel. Software can slip through that shouldn't and it ends up causing the problems like you are talking about. It has been documented several times over that task killers cause more problems than they fix. Including eating the devil out of batteries.

I would go through your apps list and figure out the true source of your problem. Either that, or something didn't take right with the rooting of your phone.

Any way for me to tell which app could be causing such a problem? I have no idea how to tell :\