Motorola Tells Customer to “Buy Elsewhere” if They Want Custom ROMs

[czerdrill]

Dude, re-read my earlier post. I did not say that Motorola should pay me money. I explained that *I* paid the money to have my Droid X put back together again. I repeat my last sentence from the previous post " We have no reason to harbor a grudge towards Motorola and Verizon?" My point is that the presence of their eFuse caused the lockup, I paid to have it fixed and now harbor a grudge - ill feelings, strong dislike - for Motorola, I don't want them to pay me any money, and my original post made no implication of that. I simply wish them very bad luck in all future business dealings, and will never spend any of my money on their products in the future.

Dude, re-read my post. I didn't say that you said Motorola should pay you money. I said it's not Motorola's fault, or problem that you bricked a device which you knew had an efuse and which you knew would void your warranty if you messed with it. Whether or not you have any ill will or feelings toward motorola has nothing to do with it. it's not their fault at all. it's 100% your fault that you had to pay some guy to fix your phone.

while i understand your position, i don't necessarily agree with your analysis. and let me disagree (respectfully) with an example/analogy: when you purchase a car, you can "chip" it with after-market parts, and obtain increased performance and power from your vehicle [which is very similar to rooting your phone, installing custom roms, and overclocking]. everyone understands that "chipping" your car voids your warranty. but, what if the car manufacturer installed a system that would sense when you "chipped", and caused the computer system to seize up and render your new vehicle non-functioning - would anyone consider that appropriate/permissible???

imho, a similar rationale would apply here. just because a phone manufacturer can lock down its phones, that doesn't make it right. anyone who hacks their phones understands (or at least, should understand) the risks. if i purchase a phone, and understand the risks of hacking, i believe i should be permitted to assume those risks without also having to assume the risk of the manufacturer booby-trapping my phone. (i believe this may have been part of the reason that the Library of Congress came out with its policy statement against locked down phones.)

as for the argument that Moto is doing it to preserve profits (against people who brick their phones and then ask for Moto to replace them), that also doesn't make sense to me. as has been pointed out, the percentage of users who hack their phones is but an infinitesimal percentage of total users. and, the percentage of those people who brick their phones is equally infinitesimal [out of the 1M+ posts in this forum, there has been maybe one instance of an actual bricking]. the costs of developing a locked bootloader far and away exceed any costs of replacing phones that have been bricked from hacking. yet, the cost of a locked bootloader is something Moto makes us pay for. and why??? i still don't know the answer to that...

when i say "right" i don't mean "correct" i mean it's their "freedom" to do that if they wanted to. Whether or not they are correct in doing it is as you said debatable and I'd agree with you that maybe it's not "right" in that sense since we buy the devices and they shouldn't be able to dictate what we do with them. heck i've hacked my navigation unit in my car to play dvds while driving whereas before it would only play if parked. i know my units warranty is voided by me doing that, but i also knew there could be a risk that i could mess up my unit and i would not be able to get a warranty repair on it. i wouldn't be mad at the manufacturer for that though...

i guess it comes down to were you informed of the consequences. let's say that the car dealer told you "if you chip this car, it may destroy it because we've installed a system to prevent such a thing to protect our proprietary software"...is it right? maybe not. is it their prerogative to that? yes. i guess what i'm saying is it's not like Motorola snuck that efuse in their and when phones brick they put their fingers together like Mr. Burns from the Simpsons and say "Excellent" and laugh at the user. Even if there was no efuse, the risk of destroying your phone exists anytime you make some kind of software change You should be fully aware of the risks and the consequences of hacking a phone with an efuse or without (and if you're not you shouldn't be hacking it).

however, again, none of this would be an issue if people took responsiblity for what they do.

 

[czerdrill]

Maybe if all the idiots out here didn't defraud Moto/Verizon on insurance this wouldn't be an issue.

A few bad apples spoiled this whole bunch.
I can guarantee that the same people who do that also don't pay for apps... Don't be mad at Motorola for protecting their interests!!

I also love the people who say "xxxx amount of people bought D1 because they saw mine...." don't you guys think Moto would rather sell D2s and DXs than D1s?

exactly. like i said there are people on this very forum asking for advice on insurance fraud and there was even a thread about "Did you get a D2 as a replacement for your D1??" Sure, no one said out loud "yeah i'm committing insurance fraud" but I would hope everyone here is not that gullible to believe that there was ALOT of that going on...

 

[lindel]

LOL at the complete arrogance and childishness displayed in this thread. Not by Motorola, but by everyone in here that thinks they are owed an unlocked bootloader from a company just because. Well thats just silly. Motorola, much like any other company on this planet would do, is just trying to protect its name and its reputation going forward. Yes, being able to load custom ROMs and kernels is nice, but at the same time, its ridiculously easy to screw up your phone if you're not careful, and when you do, and the phone is truly bricked, they know you are bound to return it, blame Motorola, and get a new one. Just look at how many times its happened on here. You are cutting down on their profits because you are actively erasing everything they set up on the device, screwing up, and returning it for a new one under a warranty they cannot verify that you broke.

This community, especially the ones who root their phones and install custom kernels is just a drop of water in the toilet for them. Go ahead, threaten to go somewhere else. I guarantee you that they really just don't care. They are just making a business decision, and if you don't like it, tough toodles. I'm sure they'll really care about the couple hundred thousand who use this ability when the remaining user-base is 100x greater, if not a whole heck of a lot more.

Not necessarily. I buy my own computer parts and assemble my own computers. I choose the operating system. I don't have to deal with a "locked down" bootloader telling me that I can or can't do something with my computer. I ponied up the money for the parts and the operating system. It's much the same when you buy a computer off the shelf, you deal with the bloatware however you choose and move on.

I'm not so upset with a locked, or unlocked bootloader, I'm upset with the company, or a representative (official or otherwise) telling me that if I don't like it, go elsewhere.

If that's what they really want, then fine, I'll go elsewhere. They want to control something, then they should start with their employees and what they post for the world to see.

 

[czerdrill]

LOL at the complete arrogance and childishness displayed in this thread. Not by Motorola, but by everyone in here that thinks they are owed an unlocked bootloader from a company just because. Well thats just silly. Motorola, much like any other company on this planet would do, is just trying to protect its name and its reputation going forward. Yes, being able to load custom ROMs and kernels is nice, but at the same time, its ridiculously easy to screw up your phone if you're not careful, and when you do, and the phone is truly bricked, they know you are bound to return it, blame Motorola, and get a new one. Just look at how many times its happened on here. You are cutting down on their profits because you are actively erasing everything they set up on the device, screwing up, and returning it for a new one under a warranty they cannot verify that you broke.

This community, especially the ones who root their phones and install custom kernels is just a drop of water in the toilet for them. Go ahead, threaten to go somewhere else. I guarantee you that they really just don't care. They are just making a business decision, and if you don't like it, tough toodles. I'm sure they'll really care about the couple hundred thousand who use this ability when the remaining user-base is 100x greater, if not a whole heck of a lot more.

Not necessarily. I buy my own computer parts and assemble my own computers. I choose the operating system. I don't have to deal with a "locked down" bootloader telling me that I can or can't do something with my computer. I ponied up the money for the parts and the operating system. It's much the same when you buy a computer off the shelf, you deal with the bloatware however you choose and move on.

I'm not so upset with a locked, or unlocked bootloader, I'm upset with the company, or a representative (official or otherwise) telling me that if I don't like it, go elsewhere.

If that's what they really want, then fine, I'll go elsewhere. They want to control something, then they should start with their employees and what they post for the world to see.

come on, man. do you really think that that's motorola's feeling on this? "screw you go elsewhere?" clearly, that was a disgruntled employee or someone having a bad day who made that post and you better believe they were reprimanded.

 

[bazar6]

Or they could make it that if you want the bootloader unlocked, you take it into the verizon store, they unlock it for you and put your number into a registry that can be looked up by phone manufacturers of people who have voided warranties. Moto and most likely soon to be most manufacturers are going to lock it down.. why.. because of those who can't take responsibility for their actions. While there are some who do end up paying full retail to get another phone or to have it fixed, that's the price you have to pay for having the majority not do it.

While most say that we might only make up 1%, which i agree it's a low number. Let's put that into perspective of money. Lets just go with the 1% number and fly with it. In april of last year there were about 1.5 million droid 1's sold (i'm only doing math for the droid 1). If the 1% bricked their phones and requested a new one under the warranty, that's 15000 phones at 600$ full retail, brings us to 9 million dollars. So in essence just for the droid 1 alone could have lost up to 9 million if our 1% ended up bricking our phones. That has nothing to do with those who got multiple phones within a years time and might have bricked more then that and had them replaced. Now i'm not saying that the whole 1% bricked their phones and requested new ones, but just giving some a realization of what that means.

On a side note, please keep it civil in here, I know people have their opinions and sometimes things will get heated, but don't make the mods have to step in.

+1 it's purely and totally a money thing for Motorola. Even if it was half of one percent, that's 4 and half million lost. Motorola has every right under the sun to protect their profits and their revenue regardless of how much it was

Which is why I think people are fighting the wrong fight. Go after issues that affects the operation of the device. A locked bootloader still allows you to root and get roms; true it is more of a pain in the neck but it can be done. Because the droid 1 is vanilla you wanted roms to make it look nicer then plain. With the ui that moto, htc, and samsung use it adds sort of that layer to improve the visuals. If motorola blur was cleaned up and you could remove preinstalled apps you would have less people rooting, and of those who rooted even less would care about roms. Because in the end we just want a device that works and performs. And high dollar items like the droid 2/x should not be lagging like they do.

That's where you start getting in to the fight on the other news thread about not being able to delete preloaded apps and disabling MotoBlur (which I played my part). But I agree, Moto has every right to do this. They can go back to the original words that started all of this, and tell us to go elsewhere, but that's just bad business, and frankly, I love Moto's (new generation) of products. Droid since 11/09, and I have a keen eye on the bionic and Xoom. I just ask for a little leeway and ability to customize a product I paid my hard earned money for. Ford can't stop me from lifting my truck I'm paying for, why should the "aftermarket industry" for phones be any different. It would be a smart idea at least.

 

[lindel]

LOL at the complete arrogance and childishness displayed in this thread. Not by Motorola, but by everyone in here that thinks they are owed an unlocked bootloader from a company just because. Well thats just silly. Motorola, much like any other company on this planet would do, is just trying to protect its name and its reputation going forward. Yes, being able to load custom ROMs and kernels is nice, but at the same time, its ridiculously easy to screw up your phone if you're not careful, and when you do, and the phone is truly bricked, they know you are bound to return it, blame Motorola, and get a new one. Just look at how many times its happened on here. You are cutting down on their profits because you are actively erasing everything they set up on the device, screwing up, and returning it for a new one under a warranty they cannot verify that you broke.

This community, especially the ones who root their phones and install custom kernels is just a drop of water in the toilet for them. Go ahead, threaten to go somewhere else. I guarantee you that they really just don't care. They are just making a business decision, and if you don't like it, tough toodles. I'm sure they'll really care about the couple hundred thousand who use this ability when the remaining user-base is 100x greater, if not a whole heck of a lot more.

Not necessarily. I buy my own computer parts and assemble my own computers. I choose the operating system. I don't have to deal with a "locked down" bootloader telling me that I can or can't do something with my computer. I ponied up the money for the parts and the operating system. It's much the same when you buy a computer off the shelf, you deal with the bloatware however you choose and move on.

I'm not so upset with a locked, or unlocked bootloader, I'm upset with the company, or a representative (official or otherwise) telling me that if I don't like it, go elsewhere.

If that's what they really want, then fine, I'll go elsewhere. They want to control something, then they should start with their employees and what they post for the world to see.

come on, man. do you really think that that's motorola's feeling on this? "screw you go elsewhere?" clearly, that was a disgruntled employee or someone having a bad day who made that post and you better believe they were reprimanded.

Hence my comment about controlling what their employees throw up on the internet. I don't know if they were reprimanded or not, don't really care. If their employees have so little control of themselves, maybe it's not a bad idea to look elsewhere for a phone.

 

[czerdrill]

Not necessarily. I buy my own computer parts and assemble my own computers. I choose the operating system. I don't have to deal with a "locked down" bootloader telling me that I can or can't do something with my computer. I ponied up the money for the parts and the operating system. It's much the same when you buy a computer off the shelf, you deal with the bloatware however you choose and move on.

I'm not so upset with a locked, or unlocked bootloader, I'm upset with the company, or a representative (official or otherwise) telling me that if I don't like it, go elsewhere.

If that's what they really want, then fine, I'll go elsewhere. They want to control something, then they should start with their employees and what they post for the world to see.

come on, man. do you really think that that's motorola's feeling on this? "screw you go elsewhere?" clearly, that was a disgruntled employee or someone having a bad day who made that post and you better believe they were reprimanded.

Hence my comment about controlling what their employees throw up on the internet. I don't know if they were reprimanded or not, don't really care. If their employees have so little control of themselves, maybe it's not a bad idea to look elsewhere for a phone.

i think that's a little harsh. they can't brainwash their employees and there's no way to control something like that...and i am absolutely positive that that employee would have been reprimanded and not just given an atta boy by his bosses. clearly he was wrong and there's no way they didn't reprimand him

 

[pc747]

I think the employee was saying what they all thought, they just did not want him to say that openly especially not at a time when they are looking to release a new device.

 

[cj1896]

I think the employee was saying what they all thought, they just did not want him to say that openly especially not at a time when they are looking to release a new device.

This +1. All that happened was that someone spoke the truth. They don't care about the dev community and don't care if they go elsewhere. I would say that a large chunk of android users have no idea about updates/features. They only care about having a "fashionable" phone that has a few features they desire. I can't tell you how many times I have looked at someones phone and seen only a handful of apps installed or apps that have never been updated. The standard consumer is for lack of a better word, stupid, Moto know's this and the educated consumer is the rarity which they don't really care about. They're sales are as strong as ever and having the only 3.0 tablet is only going to help the bottom line.

I for one will be taking their advice, since they locked the bootloader on the X I have been waiting for the next dual core HTC. It will come along shortly and at that point I will be abandoning Moto yet again. Razr redux.

 

[UltraDroid]

I think the employee was saying what they all thought, they just did not want him to say that openly especially not at a time when they are looking to release a new device.

You got THAT right, pc747! Big Time!

-Mike

 

[huskerkate]

i have no doubt the employee was reprimanded, or worse. but it's my personal feeling that if he was, it wasn't because he made a statement contrary to Moto policy - it was because of the way he did it. in fact, i believe he was accurately relaying Moto's policy (Moto's actions tell me that) - he just did it in a way that Moto didn't like, and which was embarassing to Moto.

and i think that is where the anger/uproar is coming from. Moto's actions have been saying to its consumers, "we're big enough that we can do what we want, and you just have to deal with it." this is not unlike the attitude taken by Apple, and part of the reason so many people have flocked to Andy. the whole premise of the Android OS is its openness, but Moto is now conducting itself in a way that is directly contrary to that philosophy.

and i guess that's where a big part of my disappointment comes from.

 

[czerdrill]

I think the employee was saying what they all thought, they just did not want him to say that openly especially not at a time when they are looking to release a new device.

I agree. They most probably don't care about the dev community, and honestly why would they, but I don't think they really want to say screw you go elsewhere. I look at that statement as just an idiot employee. No company wants to lose customers even if they dont care about them. I doubt they employ a philosophy of "if the customer complains, let em go, we're kings, we don't need them"...that's not the hallmark of a successful company.

I think you guys are too cynical...

 

[pc747]

Because I will admit, if the droid bionic is faster and they actually clean it up, eliminate the lag, and the video quality is actually better than what it is not....then I can care less about the bootloader especially if they allow us to delete bloatware. As long as I can root I am ok. Because though I like roms I care more bout my device being functional and if blur was clean and it did not lag I would not be looking for roms. In fact the reason I even considered a rom now was because of lag just like many average users. People keep failing to realize that even among root users the % that really care about AOSP built roms are very few. Some of us are just fine with motorola building the roms as long as it performs.

 

[lindel]

I think the employee was saying what they all thought, they just did not want him to say that openly especially not at a time when they are looking to release a new device.

I agree. They most probably don't care about the dev community, and honestly why would they, but I don't think they really want to say screw you go elsewhere. I look at that statement as just an idiot employee. No company wants to lose customers even if they dont care about them. I doubt they employ a philosophy of "if the customer complains, let em go, we're kings, we don't need them"...that's not the hallmark of a successful company.

I think you guys are too cynical...

Part and parcel why they were on the skids in the first place. As far as being cynical goes, I'll agree with that. Too many years in the USAF and working for the govt I guess.

Attitude and discipline means a lot to me, Motorla, and at least one of Motorola's employees are suspect in my opinion. Granted, it's my opinion and I know the old saying about opinions. That said, it's served me well over the years and I'll stick with it.

 

[chris420o]

i have a question...how big a deal is the locked bootloader really?....i mean does the d2 and the X not have roms out for it??? how do those roms work with a locked bootloader?? that this phone couldnt?? i mean coming from an og droid i never looked too much into it but i am curious how much more restiricted are we with the locked bootloader that all hell is breaking loose?...i mean im super upset by this bc i reallllly want a bionic but i loveee to mod my phone