LG charger on a razr

[IN AWE]

The USB Charging standard was discussed on another thread, and one very important fact was mentioned. It said that almost word for word..."phones using this standard should start arriving in the US in early 2012."

This means unless your phone was designed and manufactured to meet this new standard AND (OH SO VERY IMPORTANT), the CHARGING BLOCK WAS ALSO MANUFACTURED TO THIS NEW STANDARD, then AND ONLY THEN, can you depend on this standard. In other words, just because a new standard has been agreed upon doesn't mean that now every phone and charger out there meets this standard.

In fact, Motorola RAZR and RAZR MAXX are NOT compliant to that new standard.

There are MANY threads about phones acting strangely when plugged into a non-Motorola charger block, and yet there many very intent posters who are saying that all you need to be sure of is that the voltages are within range.

I say, all you need to do is ask yourself why that charger makes the screen go berzerk when the stock charger doesn't. There has to be something different which causes the phone to be unable to properly communicate with the digitizer.

Since the only thing that moves from the charger to the phone is power, and since there's only three measurements, volts, amps, and waveform (or quality of power), the problem has to be from one or more of the three. Voltage fluctuations are not likely since the wall voltages are fairly stable and that translates into stable step-down voltages. There are also capacitors in place to further stabilize volatges. Current fluctuations aren't likely since again wall current is also fairly stable, so the current limiting circuitry will do its job and there should be little if any fluctuation. So what's left? How about regulation, i.e. dirty power...remnants of the AC waveform at high frequencies, harmonics for those who understand that concept, and RF interference, components which can actually impart "noise" into the voltage signal much like static on an AM radio.

These wall adapters have a very tough job in total. Initially they have to take harsh and dangerous voltages of around 110VAC US (220VAC Europe) and reduce them to a tame 5.1VDC @ +/- 5%. Reducing voltage is the easy part. It can be done the old fashioned way, with a transformer by having the proper ratio of windings on the opposing sides of the iron core and using the magnetic field set up by the windings on the high voltage side to excite the windings on the low voltage side and impart a reduced voltage flow thorough those windings. With a different number of windings on one side versus the other, you get a different voltage on one side than the other. The greater the difference in windings, the greater the difference in voltage. It's really elementary. There are new high-tech ways to accomplish the step-down in voltage by using timers or "switching transformers" but the result is the same.

That in itself is unfortunately only a very small part of the process. Now you have to convert the alternating current coming from the walk into direct current. This is no small feat. You have to take what looks like a roller coaster ride from the beginning of the climb at the bottom, to the top and then down to the bottom of the fall and back up, and turn it into a perfectly flat line. How this is done is what sets an approved charger apart from the rest. All you have to do is look at what that power looks like on an Oscilloscope and then you would understand what I mean. If it's properly filtered (regulated), the voltage would appear as a perfectly flat line sitting right on the 5.1V position on the screen. Even a fairly well regulated supply may "look" flat, but if you increase the Oscilloscope's frequency sensitivity range, you may begin to see tiny little spikes and drops. It's this ever-so-small "static" or "noise" that can be at the root of this problem.

Since the digitizer is measuring a change in capacitance at the screen surface (the difference between the ambient charge between the anode and cathode of the underlying capacitor junctions), and since these changes, how ever slight they may be are enough to indicate where your finger is, if there is a change in the voltage due to dirty power, the digitizer interprets that "noise" as finger-presses all over the screen, and you wind up with "ghost typing". On the other hand, if the power is clean and free of artifacts or remnants of the AC ripple, or noise from the regulator circuitry, or RF interference that manages to leak into the circuit, then the digitizer only "sees" the change in capacitance at those junctions when your finger is really there.

This is why the stock charger doesn't cause interference with the digitizer yet others do. Case in point, check out this thread (http://www.droidforums.net/forum/dr...properly-when-plugged-into-computers-usb.html). This is a USB port on a computer, which is supposed to be 100% USB compatible and so should be 100% compatible with the RAZR, and yet it is producing dirty power and affecting the digitizer on his phone.

Also, regarding current and using a charging block that puts out more than the recommended current (i.e. 750mAh or 1A for rapid charging), such as the 2,100mAh mentioned, the phone SHOULD be able to limit that current to the battery. However if the charging circuit which limits that current should fail, and you're plugged into a charger that puts out 2 Amps, you could have the battery suddenly receiving that full current and the battery may begin to heat up rapidly. This could result in damage to the battery or more. Why take chances? If nothing else, charging with a high-current supply will only shorten the life of the battery. Yeah, it'll charge faster, but the battery will start taking less and less of a charge faster too.

Better safe than sorry with a phone that retails for in the 3/4 of a Grand...use the STOCK charger and avoid using any other charging source if at all possible.

In this case I see absolutely no problem using the Wall Wart charger with your phone. This is in the same exact specs (I believe) that you would get plugging the factory supplied cord to your computer rather than plugging into the wall. I feel any decent name brand Micro USB cable (charger) that operates at 5 volts and in the 500 to 900 mA output range is acceptable and will not void warranty. On the Other hand if you decide to go with a China made with no specs, well...... your asking for it. That is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Foxkat, it seems that I agree with you about the dirty power and the digitizer. Quality chargers is the difference. I still believe my above quote in the bold holds true.

 

[FoxKat]

Foxkat, it seems that I agree with you about the dirty power and the digitizer. Quality chargers is the difference. I still believe my above quote in the bold holds true.

Sorry, using Tapatalk, can't see bold text, but I believe we both know there are limits and then there's a wide area between the manufacturers' recommendations and what can be used without any adverse effects (other than maybe some strange screen issues). I just want to make sure that nobody takes the comment that a particular red berry is safe to eat and interpret it to mean all red berries are safe to eat. (metaphor)


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk with speech to text translation. Please excuse any minor grammatical/punctuation/spelling errors.

 

[IN AWE]

Sorry, using Tapatalk, can't see bold text, but I believe we both know there are limits and then there's a wide area between the manufacturers' recommendations and what can be used without any adverse effects (other than maybe some strange screen issues). I just want to make sure that nobody takes the comment that a particular red berry is safe to eat and interpret it to mean all red berries are safe to eat. (metaphor)


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk with speech to text translation. Please excuse any minor grammatical/punctuation/spelling errors.

Correct, I did not condone the use of all chargers. Only quality chargers that operate in specs, but not limited to Moto products.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[prime]

A standard is a standard, and all standards have specifications of targets as well as tolerances in a range around those targets. As I said, the USB standard is applied in the case of laptops and desktops, as well as the USB data communications of these phones. This is why you can depend on the compatibility of your phone with those devices, even in the case of the USB charging standard.

What you can't depend upon is that all manufacturers will remain compliant, especially those who only manufacture third party charging blocks. They don't use the USB logo so they don't have to. There is absolutely no incentive for them to do anything more than convert the voltage from AC to DC and step it down to the voltage needed. They don't win any points with consumers if they pay attention to quality or accuracy, or of they provide good filtering or protection circuitry especially if consumers are led to believe all USB power supplies are created equal.

And you assume all PCs are created equal? Do you assume all PC manufacturers provide good filtering to the USB ports, stringent regulations on 5v output?

They do not yet you and Motorola assume it's safe to charge/connect your $700 mobile device to any open USB port on any of the thousands of PC types available to the general public.

This is not less/more dangerous than using third party non approved USB chargers (with separate USB cable).

Do you know if my foo brand PC is USB certified? I don't either, and from previous experience with a Dell XPS laptop of mine USB certified means nothing.

Just saying.

 

[FoxKat]

And you assume all PCs are created equal? Do you assume all PC manufacturers provide good filtering to the USB ports, stringent regulations on 5v output?

They do not yet you and Motorola assume it's safe to charge/connect your $700 mobile device to any open USB port on any of the thousands of PC types available to the general public.

This is not less/more dangerous than using third party non approved USB chargers (with separate USB cable).

Do you know if my foo brand PC is USB certified? I don't either, and from previous experience with a Dell XPS laptop of mine USB certified means nothing.

Just saying.

Prime, I actually agree with you, but for purposes of this thread and to avoid confrontation from those who are more insistent that all chargers are created equal, I took the position that at least USB charging ports are relatively safe and dependable.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk with speech to text translation. Please excuse any minor grammatical/punctuation/spelling errors.

 

[thaDroidz]

Believe what you wish, you're going to anyway.

But for the rest of you who understand that a warranty is a bilateral contract, here's a direct copy from the RAZR users manual, page 57 (and yes, I've read the entire thing).

Begining to think you wrote it also!
Or atleast should have!



----posted maxx'ed out----

 

[prime]

Prime, I actually agree with you, but for purposes of this thread and to avoid confrontation from those who are more insistent that all chargers are created equal, I took the position that at least USB charging ports are relatively safe and dependable.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk with speech to text translation. Please excuse any minor grammatical/punctuation/spelling errors.

I agree all USB chargers are not created equally.

 

[LoneWolfArcher]

All above responses are for the most part correct, however there can be undesirable effects due to using non-approved third party chargers;

1. As mentioned, the charge rate may be either less or more
   • If the charge rate is less
     • It will take longer to reach a full charge
     • It may actually never reach a full charge
       1. If the charging circuitry isn't able to convert the output voltage and current from the sub-par charger into the necessary voltage and current that the charging circuitry needs
       2. If the charging circuitry is fooled by the lower voltage or amperage and interprets the lower values as an indication the battery is fully charged before it has actually reached full capacity
   • If the charge rate is higher, it could result in any number of possibilities including;
     • Charging faster (taking less time)
     • Battery heating up (which shortens the life of the battery)
     • Damage to the battery or the charging circuitry
2. The phone may exhibit strange symptoms while using it, such as
   • Scrolling erratically
   • Selecting areas on the screen which are not where it is being pressed
   • Activating other apps or functions when trying to scroll or select something else
     • These symptoms are often called "Ghost Typing".
3. Permanent damage to either the battery and/or the phone's charging circuitry and/or the actual phone

It should also be noted that it is a violation of your warranty terms to use a non-approved charger. Approved chargers will either have the Motorola Logo and be specifically designed to work with the Motorola Droid Razr/Maxx, have the Verizon logo and be marketed by Verizon specifically for the Razr/Maxx. Also, using the supplied USB cable in combination with a computer or an approved battery-powered "booster" are generally within the description of an approved charge method, since both will supply highly filtered and stable charging voltage and amperage.

If the battery or phone should fail and it can be determined that the failure was as a result of using a non-approved charger, Motorola and Verizon reserve the right to refuse coverage under the warranty and only offer the option to pay for repair or replacement. In other words, if you choose to use a third party charger, even if one from a competitor's cell phone, you take on full responsibility for any ill effects it may result in.

Holy crap, do we really expect the common user to get this? LOL All they know is that the plug fits.

If it fits, you must acquit!

 

[FoxKat]

Holy crap, do we really expect the common user to get this? LOL All they know is that the plug fits.

If it fits, you must acquit!

Really? So that means you give the average smartphone owner very little credit for having gray matter. These are more a portable computer and less a phone, so I think people are smarter than that for the most part. People will for the most part heed warnings of warranty violations, and those warnings are there to deter you from being irresponsible.

Still, there are a percentage who will ignore all warnings and its those things people will experience mentioned above along with other improper use that are the reasons for such rampant and unfounded warranty claims as we see time and time again. I could go through the threads and point to countless phones having been replaced, sometimes 3 and 4 times for reasons which are 100% user error or caused by the user.

But go ahead, take that iPad charger which puts out 2.1 amps which is nearly three times the stock charger's current, and over two times the recommended maximum charge rate as specified by the battery manufacturers, and plug it into your phone to charge it. The phone's circuitry does have a current limiter, but if that limiter fails you could be risking burning your house down and possibly death, but no big deal, right?



Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk with speech to text translation. Please excuse any minor grammatical/punctuation/spelling errors.

 

[LoneWolfArcher]

I know alot of smartphone users that would assume off the end is a micro USB that our will work. Kind of like when people were plugging their parallel printer cable into the PC s serial port, getting said port. Eventually PC makers changed the gender of the serial ports.

If it fits someone will plug it in.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using DroidForums

 

[bradu]

Correct me if I'm wrong but given the liability issues with lithium ion powered devices wouldn't they all have to have voltage/amperage regulation circuitry built in to the device to prevent such issues from arising?

 

[bradu]

Correct me if I'm wrong but given the liability issues with lithium ion powered devices wouldn't they all have to have voltage/amperage regulation circuitry built in to the device to prevent such issues from arising?

By issues I meant overheating and starting fires.