Let's Talk (why one clicks are not helping)

Discussion in 'Thunderbolt Hacks' started by pc747, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. pc747
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    pc747 DF Administrator Staff Member Rescue Squad

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    I am seeing an alarming number of people looking to root the thunderbolt though one click or some easy way. Think its time we learn adb and how to set the tools up. I think the most intimidating part is setting it up and hopefully we can help with that. The reason it is important to know what is going on is if you do a one click/ one step you are relying on the dev to write the scripts correctly. If a step was missed be either the dev or you then you are even more lost.
    So what part of adb is causing people to be intimidated and maybe we can help get around that you guys can atleast figure out how to use it to root.
  2. ionide
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    ionide New Member

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    I haven't rooted my TB yet, but would like to learn adb. When I rooted my og Droid, I just followed instructions on rooting from any version, which involved flashing an sbf I believe to get recovery, and then from recovery installing an update file.
    You should post a link to instructions for adb here.
    Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums
  3. pc747
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    pc747 DF Administrator Staff Member Rescue Squad

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  4. drew
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    drew New Member

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    I think you're opening a good can of worms as far as wanting to TEACH people, or do some analysis to find out WHY people won't learn ADB. I've been alarmed at how some of the end users are treated for asking about one-click rooting solutions. Sorry for the lengthy post.

    ADB / command line entry / flashing (the whole rooting process) can be VERY intimidating to people whose computer knowledge is limited to playing Farmville on Facebook. Disclaimers about damaging the phone can also be scary to this type of person. Wiping the phone (for Tbolt) can be a deterrent. Do these people not deserve root if there was a safe one-click alternative that was idiot-proof? Why not? Because other people do it the "right way"?

    My issue is that there are people who argue that if you're not willing to learn ADB, you don't deserve root - I'm not accusing the OP of this, just airing an opinion. It comes across as snobbish, and elitist. I agree that you should know what you're doing with your phone and what root is, etc. But to deny someone help because they used a "shortcut" made available by a member of the development community (something I've seen on other forums) is also not helpful to the community at large (again, not accusing the OP). I don't see how one-clicks are "not helping". Helping what? The android dev community is already huge. Let the end users be end users.

    I don't have a problem with the one-clicks. Of course it is up to the developer to "write the scripts" correctly. It's a piece of software that should be thoroughly tested before it is released. If one-click solutions don't have any value, why would a developer go to the trouble of creating them? I would like to think they understand that not everyone is computer savvy and should be able to have the value of a rooted phone w/o knowing all the details.

    With the older phones you had a plethora of choices (Z4Root, Soup or Root, Unrevoked, etc). No one was bricking phones (at least not that I saw on this board). That spoiled the general community. We became complacent. We became lazy. I used Z4Root on my D2G before I returned it. Why did I do that method? Because I knew it provided a good one-click root, and one-click unroot. Unroot took less than 5 seconds when I took it back to VZW.

    I'm not holding my breath for a true one-click solution for the TBolt. The phone seems too locked down for that. I'm waiting until May to root mine (after free Hotspot expires). I hope the devs find a different exploit that doesn't require wiping, but I don't think that is likely.
  5. pc747
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    pc747 DF Administrator Staff Member Rescue Squad

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    I agree infact I was that person, I did not start rooting the long way. What got me started into rooting was the sholesmodapp wich was the FIRST one click app for the droid that gave you root and a decent rom. Sholesmod and my fear of rooting helped spawned a lot of my guides. I am not gonna bang some one on the head for using a one click because that is what originally gave me the courage to root. So it will be hypocritical of my to bash, my goal is for those who want to learn we are here to teach.
  6. doug piston
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    doug piston Premium Member Rescue Squad Premium Member

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    I am going to bang someone on the head. It is not elitist nor snobbish to ask that someone knows what they are doing before rooting. These one-clicks I feel have been the downfall of the community. You now have people who have no clue on what they are doing screwing up their phones and sending them in for warranty exchange. Fail.Go look at my first posts, I was a complete idiot I asked for help and I received it and learned from there. What is the real reason for these people to be rooting? Tether? Get PDAnet. Custom roms? They are not that much better the factory roms. Get rid of bloat? It is not affecting your phone that negatively.

    Being a part of the team here I am willing to help help anyone with anything but with rooting a device should come a certain amount of responsibility from the end user. Know what you are doing, know how you can damage the phone and know the basics for recovering the device, These one-clicks allow just anyone to root wothout having a clue on what to do if something goes wrong.

    When something goes wrong is usually when I have to step in. I can say with a great deal of pride that just about everyone who has contacted me across 5 forums that my success rate at recovering the device is well above 95% but these same users could have saved them the stress if they had any idea on what they are doing.

    Call me old school but I agree that a simple ADB setup is not that bad of a test before rooting a phone. ADB is not that hard to setup and takes all of 5 minutes. IMHO if you cannot copy and paste after setting up ADB to root your phone maybe you shouldn't be. You'd be saving a lot of developers from having to find new exploits in new builds as the carriers hope shut us out due to user negligence.
  7. EgooEspada
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    EgooEspada New Member

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    Agreed with all of you who. ADB, while looks scary at first, isn't so hard. Also, it'll help with fixing any problems or doing certain actions along the line. I know a guy who runs around trying to use Z4root to root everyone with an android phone. You shouldn't be doing this if you don't know what you're doing.

    Sent from my ADR6400L
  8. hookbill
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    hookbill Premium Member Premium Member

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    I love the one clicks. I highly recommend them, specially if you're new and don't understand rooting.

    Then when you brick your phone because you have no idea what you're doing you can send it back to Verizon, get a replacement, and complain about you having a refurb that's not working properly. Probably also because you don't know what you're doing. :D
  9. pc747
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    pc747 DF Administrator Staff Member Rescue Squad

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    Hook and his sarcasm....

    sent using droidforums app.
  10. Dave12308
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    Dave12308 New Member

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    Here's my take on it. The one-step methods are fine if you are already familiar with the manual rooting methods that use ADB. However, one should not even attempt to gain root access until they are thoroughly familiar with what they are doing, and how to recover from any problems they encounter.

    The thing about rooting is simple: it's basically gaining full administrator access to your device. As an IT professional, I wouldn't even think of giving admin access to a user who didn't know exactly what they were doing. If the extent of your computing experience is posting to Facebook and playing Farmville, then you should be running as a limited privelage user on ANY computing device you happen to use. Otherwise, you are simply LOOKING for trouble.
  11. dvgb173
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    dvgb173 Member

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    To answer the OP's original question:
    I first encountered the need for ADB when i rooted my D1 January 2010. What threw me about ADB was some of the early guides to rooting. They pointed the user to download SDK. This is a very intimidating piece of software to a noob. As least it is to me. What I didn't realize was that you didn't actually need to install this to use ADB. Just extract the files to a folder. Most windows users can do that easily.

    Only after upgrading to the Tbolt, did I re-visist this again. That is when I found a more clearly stated guide.

    And you are all correct. ADB is not very scary after you actually use it once.
  12. Immolate
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    Immolate New Member

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    I think it's great that you want to teach others to use ADB and become competent with the technology. But it's a lot more work to write a good tutorial than it might seem. I think it's the perfect project for a community with a lot of knowledgeable people in it to conspire to create a polished, user-friendly guide to doing something that appears complex on the surface. Of course it's simple once you know what you're doing. Landing a 747 is simple once you know what you're doing. Don't try this at home, kids.

    Starting off a project like a collaborate guide is as simple as putting together an outline of the process and then inviting people to start helping to fill in the blanks.

    FYI, I've used ADB before, but it's been a long time and I've forgotten more than I remember. I'd love to have something to guide me through the learning process as well. I believe the more people learn how to master their phone, the stronger the community becomes. Thanks for starting this thread.
  13. Laur3nNewm4n
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    Laur3nNewm4n New Member

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    You bought the phone, do whatever you want to it. One click, get all hacker fancy, whatever. Just don't send it back to Verizon if you goofed up. That's all I ask. If people want to learn, super. If not, that's great too.
  14. SwaggerJacker
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    SwaggerJacker New Member

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    You guys need to pump your brakes. I'd learn adb IF I had to. I don't, therefore I use the easy method. Go form your own little oligarchy and adb to your hearts content.

    We are no more a threat than you the developers. I hope the soap box you're preaching from isn't built entirely on your ego. You might hurt something.

    But you're prepared for such an occasion because you've learned to repair a compound fracture. A doctor would be the lazy way to fix it. Get over yourselves.

    Duke
    Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums
  15. spaz33g
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    spaz33g Rescue Squad Rescue Squad

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    i have personally seen the kind of damage that one clicks can cause. for instance i definitely noticed a spike in users doing damage to their phone after z4root was released. now don't get me wrong, it's a great tool, but too many people root their phone the easy way and then figure "oh that was easy, maybe i'll do some more stuff" then they jump in to a situation they aren't ready for.

    but even beyond just learning to root "the hard way" because it teaches you what you are actually doing, it will also teach you stuff that will help later on. for instance adb; it's used for a ton of things so why not learn it now when it's really not all that difficult. also, look at the droid 1. if you root using the sbf method then now you know how to sbf, which is more than i can say about a lot of people. that way if you screw up you don't have to worry about finding someone to help, you already know what you're doing.
  16. SwaggerJacker
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    SwaggerJacker New Member

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    I'm must admit, when put in a non accusatory way, it does sound like fun. I like tinkering.

    Duke

    Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums
  17. mkjellgren
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    mkjellgren New Member

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    I definitely agree with the op to a point. Personally, I wouldn't say that ALL use of one-clicks are not helping, I would say that UNINFORMED use of one-clicks is not helping. For someone like myself and many others here who have always done things the "long" way with adb, one-click root/unroot solutions are very convenient. If you ever run into a situation where you lost root and need to re-root or you have to unroot, one-clicks are really slick. Apps and programs like this are good for the development community. Any development is good development. The problem in my opinion is when someone becomes I interested in rooting, they tend to gravitate towards the easiest, most idiot proof means to their ends and they dive in head first without knowing what they are getting themselves into. There are countless posts in every section (involving root) of this forum with posts such as "just rooted with [insert one-click here] now what?!?!?!" My point is not to be a snob or some geek elite, in fact I am quite the opposite. I'm not a developer, I don't know java or anything like that. Android is simply a hobby of mine, I do the best that I can with the knowledge that I have and am always interested in learning more. I do however feel that it is in the best interest of not only the end user, but the developers, trouble shooters, and the Android community as a whole that we all take the time to try to understand what we are doing and why. It's not just one-clicks either. ROM flashing apps (i.e. ROM manager) and root specific file explorers are tremendous tools in the right hands, but with great power comes great responsibility. The best thing we as a community can do is strive to become as knowledgeable as possible and encourage others to the same.

    *end rant...*

    Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums
  18. FreeTrader
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    FreeTrader New Member

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    " Rooted " Via one click & ....

    Hey There I rooted Via one of the one click methods Because i Have Win 7 & couldn't figure out how To Run ADB / sdk on my pc tried everything i could think of short of Trying to run Xp on a 7 machine ? LoL

    Not sure how to do that either ? Some sort of VM is needed i do know that much Couldn't figure out how to do
    it & didn't wanna Pay for the
    Full Ver of VM ??? $$$$ LoL

    Any way Got my Motorola i1 ( Boost Mobile ) Rooted so i Could

    "Mod " / Rename some Files Via ( Rootexplorer ) Great Prog :D

    Now an still looking for a Foolproof way to Backup My phone

    " Stock " Backup & then maybe I'll DL & Play W some New rom's

    But not before i Back it up ,,,, Could Somebody Please Help

    Tried looking for SpRecovery & or Clockwork Etc .

    But am SCARED TO Flash anything to my Phone Without knowing what it will do & if i can save a stock Backup First ???? Etc

    Again Please Help !!!! Thanx .... Ftr
  19. Natey2
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    Natey2 Active Member

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    Is this a good analogy?

    One-click root is like an automatic transmission.
    Adb is like stick-shift.

    Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums
  20. Natey2
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    Natey2 Active Member

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    Why do I need to root my phone to do some basic things, like making a complete backup?

    Poor OS architecture on Google's part. Hiding necessary APIs under the cover of root privilege...

    Under Windows Mobile 6, I could do image backups using Sprite.
    No phone-hacking necessary.
    With Android, I need to root first :( then use Titanium Backup?

    Sent from my DROIDX using DroidForums