Last resort to try to figure out my GPS problem. Can anyone help?

[Snoking]

RetG,

Good luck with the upgrade. And I am not sure which maps you like to use for your line of work, but the Mobile Atlas Creator program seems to have pretty robust development, and you might find a map set/type to help when you are remote. And it sure is nice to be able to layer satellite imagery, terrain, or topography that is way more useful than 1:100000 resolution/scale.

Chris,

Well, not really any confusion, just a little disagreement about how the GPS works. I have followed every Android GPS thread here (including your links), and all I am saying is that I can get lock without a data connection. Certainly when you factory reset the phone, perhaps CDMA is needed, but my experience runs contrary to all of the folks who say you need 3G to get a GPS fix. No question that you would need 3g for navigation or maps, but my comments above about Oryxmaps means that I do not need 3g for that mapping program.

There is a little saying by one of the top shooting instructors in the country. 2 is 1, 1 is none. Anyone who ventures into the back country, depending upon electronics to keep their life save, better have a backup plan. Like a map and compass, and basic orienteering skills The Droid would suck as a primary device, as it is not weather proof, it is relatively fragile, and is harder than heck to see in bright sunlight. Can't be used effectively with gloves, has a pretty narrow temperature operating window (wildernessly speaking), and has a miserable battery life, compared to a handheld GPS reciever that can run 24 hours m/l with double A batteries that you likley have a lot of spares for things like flashlights or headlamps. On this point we most certainly agree.

Craig

Well after reading a number of articles this morning about Cell Phones and GPS I found that it is a CDMA connection that sends the aGPS signal to Cell Phone (Smart or Dumb) to aid in the inital lockon.

And again with the "GPS Status" App the "Last Fix" time in the screen it helpful in seeing what is really happening.

Chris

 

[Bear in NM]

Chris,

Yes, you are correct, Agps is assited gps, whereby tower location triangulation assists the phone in getting a position. And it would likely assist on the initial lock/position. What we are really discussing is sGPS, simultaneous, and whether the sgps component will find lock without 3g.

I just looked at the last fix feature in GPS Status, and it displays the last lock time. If you are seeing satellites, the time corresponds to the current time. Currently I moved my phone away from my south facing window, and I have lost lock, so the time displays the last time I had lock. It is really not telling me much.

It seems like what you are doing is using airplane mode to test the functioning of the gps, or more specifically sgps. All I am saying is that rather than use airplane mode, I actually have tested and use gps in areas with no 3g. Not a simulation or turning off data, but real top of the mountain no 3g does the phone gps find me. So far, in my experience my phone does find me with no 3g.

I will certainly not dispute what others have found to the contrary, as one thing I have learned about this phone is everyone experiences are somewhat unique. At my home I require a repeater/booster to get phone and data. I have a mobile booster in my Jeep, as I live in a fairly remote location, and I work and play in even more remote locations. So, I have tested a lot. While I know gps inside and out, I will admit to not knowing the in's and out of the the cell phone technical side, other than what I see for myself, on my phone.

Craig

 

[Snoking]

CDMA basic phone service and 3G (EV-DO Rev A)are two different levels of communition! All Verizon phones talk on basic CDMA. Smart phone get data on 3G or really slowly on 1X. I believe that one can have a CDMA phone/voice connection and not have a 3G data connection, I could be wrong. Quote: "Verizon Wireless offers voice services as well as 3G data services such as wireless broadband based on EV-DO Rev A, text and picture messaging, over-the-air downloadable applications and content from its "Media Center" ( previously called, Get-It-Now) service, Video on Demand in the form of V CAST (which allows customers to download and view video content), location-based services, and Push-to-Talk."

"I just looked at the last fix feature in GPS Status, and it displays the last lock time. If you are seeing satellites, the time corresponds to the current time."

NOT true, I just drove 60 miles from where I was playing with the GPS this morning. Last Lock said 9.44.xx, it showed sats coming on going on the bar, but it was not yet locked on. It was still displaying the Lat/Lon from our camp site 60 miles away. I had to play around with it for a while before the Last Fix start counting each second and it was locked back on.

Chris

 

[RETG]

I sure hope no one is using a cell phone of any make for travel, either by vehicle or by foot, in desolate areas. That is the one reason why I get called out, not necessarily the use of cell phones for GPS, but usually, no maps, no GPS, no water, no nothing but ignorance.
Even though when I go out I have multiple GPS units from Trimble to Garmin to two BB Tours (one gov't issued, one private), I also take along a Silva Ranger and a USGS Topo map of the area I am in.

As one person already stated, do not trust you lives on battery power devices. Can't beat the compass. On the other hand I have not had to use the compass in the past year. I do travel with plenty of rechargeable AAs, known to last longer if they are the 2700 size. Last year, in the Maze district of Canyonlands, the compass was used since in the small narrow canyons, GPS was basically worthless.

So, regardless of the device, don't trust your lives to batteries.

And to add to this, my BB Tours, will lock on outside of Verizon service, will allow routes via a Map program that came with the device. Played with it when I first got it my personal one. But, I don't use it for the main GPS device.

 

[Peschon]

Im in Ankara, Turkey Took my droid 1 for music and such. I can tell you it will not lock on any GPS sats. I set my phone outside with airplane mode off, and gps turned on for 3-4 hours with GPS Status running, nothing. Bust out my garmin and within 2-3 mins I get a good lock with 8-10 sats.

 

[wsbsteven]

My Droid 1 was disconnected when I got my X. I still use the gps on it and it works without a data connection. If I enable airplane mode it seems to kill gps even if I have gps enabled as runkeeper was no longer able to track my progress. I keep normally evdo disabled at all times using *#*#info#*#* and I get gps fine. I disabled 1xrtt in the same programming screen and I was still able to get a gps signal using gps test to verify.

I can't disable both 1xRTT and EVDO at the same time as the programming screen doesn't allow it but without an active account on my droid, I have no access to VZW's network minus the required 911 access. Based on this information, I have no reason to believe the Droid doesn't have/also have a real gps. That is unless someone has evidence that tower triangulation is passed to any connected device over both EVDO and1XRTT even without carrier authorization.

 

[Djnardu]

So believe it or not ive actually think Ive narrowed it down to my problem being my network/area.

My dad received his Droid X today. As I arrived home from work my X was still locked onto the satellites as usual. His brand new X after being set up was not able to pick up GPS even as it was held in the opposite hand of mine which was still picking up the satellites.

Its now a couple hours later and my phone has now lost the signal.

 

[Bear in NM]

DJ,

Not sure about your dads phone, as it is new and perhaps the network/cdma/3g we have been discussing is at issue. Having never had lock (assuming from your description), perhaps he needed the network for that first lock.

Your phone on the otherhand, sounds to be experiencing classic satellite visibility issues. remember the satellites are moving, so over time you will lose and gain satellites depending on what is visible in the sky. I can duplicate this easily at my home office. Over at my window, perfect lock all the time. Move over 8 feet to my desk (under my metal roof) and sometimes I keep lock, but generally I lose lock. Roof blocks the satellites, much the same way satellites can drop below the horizon or trees or other obstructions. Were you doing this test outside, perhaps on a deck, with sky visibility? Or inside? If inside, what is over head, a metal roof, a second story? Near any large south facing windows?

Craig

 

[Djnardu]

Yea i thought it was visibility issues, until I started driving out to ballfields and golf courses in my area and still not picking up anything.

And usually when I go to test at my house its on my porch with my backyard and an acre or clear sky above.

But over the last 2 weeks or so I have never lost a signal at work, I arrive there with a perfect signal. I leave from being 8 hours under a metal roof and get a immediate pick up of the signals.

 

[Bear in NM]

Dj,

Cool, it sounds like you have your head around visibility. One thing I have not mentioned is that I always keep my gps off until I am ready to use it. I use the power widget, turn on the gps and then go into GPStatus to check when I get lock. If you have not tried this at your golf course or ballfield locations, perhaps try? Maybe the on and off with unit/gps/gpstautus helps in some way? Dunno.

I did confirm again yesterday that 3g is not needed for a distance of about 40 miles. Went north from home on a job, with the phone off, and having turned off data and roaming. Took all of about 10 seconds to get lock, but I did have one bar of cell (cdma) so this was not a definative test of that.

Craig

 

[Djnardu]

lol maybe I just live in the single part of the earth that like to not have sattelite coverage all the time. It doesnt really bother me because as soon as Im out of my area I always pick up sattelites, and I really would only be using GPS when im out of my area anyways.

Last night when I lost the signal I left my phone out on my porch for a good 30 min. I came out to see that it was seeing two sattelites. It did not lock on to these but was seeing them. So I know the GPS does work over by me but just why not all the time. lol still puzzles me.

 

[AdamR1]

Hi guys I don't know if i should have started another thread about this but i been looking for answers concerning GPS and the Droid. I live NYC and have used the phone successfully in the Tri state area for navigation. 1. The Motorola Droid 1 does have a GPS radio, that can communicate with the GPS satellites above but it may require a mobile connection to get certain info of where the satellites are located. 2. Google maps and Navigate require a 3G(1X doesn't cut it)connection to help it get navigation info. 3. If need turn by turn directions using only GPS i need to purchase an app from the market place that does it.

 

[Snoking]

Hi guys I don't know if i should have started another thread about this but i been looking for answers concerning GPS and the Droid. I live NYC and have used the phone successfully in the Tri state area for navigation. 1. The Motorola Droid 1 does have a GPS radio, that can communicate with the GPS satellites above but it may require a mobile connection to get certain info of where the satellites are located. 2. Google maps and Navigate require a 3G(1X doesn't cut it)connection to help it get navigation info. 3. If need turn by turn directions using only GPS i need to purchase an app from the market place that does it.

Just to clarify, the GPS receives signals from the Satellites, it does not communicate with them!

Chris

 

[Bear in NM]

Adam,

I think you are asking questions, I think.

Your points/questions:

3. and 2. : Yes, 3G is needed for the maps to download to the phone for Google navigation to work. If do a little searching you will find that folks have found work-arounds for the navigation component, by "My maps" on the phone, but it sounds like if you deviate from the route, the phone becomes lost. The program I have referred to here is not a navigation/turn by turn application. Someone else will have to help with 3rd party nav. questions.

1. is the point in contention here. It is not that the phone needs to know where the satellites are located, as this information (ephemeris) is broadcast by the satellites (or at least I think it is, as this could be moot as the sats. know where they are). The point is whether you need cell coverage to initiate lock on the first satellite so that the phone will know where it is. For some of us this works, for others, not. Could be tied to distance and time from last lock? It will always be tied to satellite visibility, as it takes four birds to get a 3-d position. And the satellite positions change all the time, so it can be a little confounding for folks.

Based on my experiences, if you are tooling around, going in and out of cell coverage and possibly 3g, you have a good chance of gaining lock, and either keeping it or easily reacquiring it. But, if you know that you are not going to have any network coverage at all, you may have difficulties with the phone and position, and you will certainly be faced with getting creative to get any proper turn by turn navigation on your phone.

 

[FunN4Lo]

Hi guys I don't know if i should have started another thread about this but i been looking for answers concerning GPS and the Droid. I live NYC and have used the phone successfully in the Tri state area for navigation. 1. The Motorola Droid 1 does have a GPS radio, that can communicate with the GPS satellites above but it may require a mobile connection to get certain info of where the satellites are located. 2. Google maps and Navigate require a 3G(1X doesn't cut it)connection to help it get navigation info. 3. If need turn by turn directions using only GPS i need to purchase an app from the market place that does it.

I guess it is a testament to how great Verizon's service actually is for all of the dis-information on navigation and data. It is so rare that people see a 1x or a no data situation that they do not know what happens when it occurs