Innovation vs Public Safety

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pc747

pc747

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First off guys remember to be respectful of everyone on this forum and in this thread regardless of whether they agree or disagree. That is the point of a forum and this thread to see both sides of an argument. If you go into a debate with your ears plug angry you miss the golden opportunity that is in front of us.

@SquireSCA you make a great point about the cons to using drones many that I share myself. But we would be remiss if we were to go into this thing eyes shut. For one as much as I hate the idea of drones for concerns about public safety and (as @mountainbikermark said) companies saving money by hiring some temp agent vs a qualified drone pilot, I also can see where this can be of great need. For those who are elderly or can not get out (ie wounded and disabled veterans) this would serve as a great tool to get them food, supplies, and medicines.
I personally do not want to limit the service to just the elderly or the medical industry for fears of them driving the price up (making it even harder for the elderly and our veterans to afford). Instead what people like you and myself should be concerned with is making sure we pay attention to the regulations that are in place to make sure it takes into account both public safety and limit property damage. If you see a company slacking off on safety feel free to spread the info from every means as possible. But lets also give innovation a chance.
In the end we could be right, and hopefully no one is hurt severely in the process, or we could be surprised and this turn into an industry that can be a help for many and provide jobs for those looking.

As far as people strapping c4 to it, well someone could do that now with a remote control car or remote plane so I do not want to limit innovation because of concerns about some idiot taking a tool and making a weapon out of it. My hopes (and we can express this with our feedback to companies and businesses) is that they do proper background checks and secure the drones in an area where a person can not get ahold of it. But even that will not guarantee safety. After 9/11 TSA is failing inspections left and right, 2 people managed to crash a party at the White House as well as have people land on the White House lawn. Point is with all we have in place someone will still find a way through the hopes is that we limit the damage they cause when they do.
 
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dezymond

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For many great innovations/inventions there are some disturbed people who see it as another weapon or tool for their malevolence. Cars, airplanes, boats, etc all have become used as weapons (tanks, fighter planes/jets, boats made for war, etc), which I'm sure wasn't the original intent of these innovations/inventions. Cell phones nowadays are used as tracking devices and I've even heard of some being used as bombs.

My point is, innovation helps, both the good and bad. Just as @pc747 pointed out, a remote control car can be used as a weapon and it's a kids toy that can be purchased by anyone. No way would I ever have the intention of buying something like that to hurt people, but there really are some sick people out there who do. However, I'm not going to live my life in fear of which toy in the store could be used as potential deadly weapon. The world we live in isn't a completely sane or safe world and it's good to have a bit of fear, but I wouldn't see drones as any different than I would seeing a plane in the sky. And I'm guessing that plane in the sky could cause more damage than a drone with some c4 taped onto it.

Just my .02
 
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SquireSCA

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How does it help?

I mean, in the highly unlikely case of some elderly person who cannot leave the house, and who waits till the last minute and needs a medical device in the next 90 minutes, that Amazon will happen to have in stock at a distribution center that is within the 30 minute round trip abilities of the drone...

I just don't see it... It's a novelty, that Amazon obviously feels they can save some money on, and that's about it...

Time will tell who is right and who is wrong here...
 

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It's all a matter of supply and demand. If people want it, it will eventually become a reality. Everything from alcohol (think prohibition), to marijuana, to abortion, to sexual equality, to gay marriage. Eventually the masses win.

If people want the (nearly), instant gratification, or the products are either medically or otherwise quality of lifestyle necessary and time is of the essence, man will find a way to make it happen. Some of man's solutions are highly efficient and statistically extremely safe (think airline travel), and others are wrought with problems and include significant risk (can you say Hindenburg or Titanic?). Eventually most if not all of the problems and risk are eliminated but along the way there are often casualties of some order. In fact, it's often casualties that drive the demand for new innovation or surpass aversion to change. That stop light that's been needed for years in the intersection at the end of the street often doesn't happen until someone dies.

As for fear being the reason to thwart innovation, if we allow our futures to be dictated by fear of the possible and unknown then we become slaves to that fear and that is exactly what the terrorists' objectives are. As was said earlier. If someone wants to do harm they will find a way either using high technology (drones), or low technology (sharpened toothbrush shank). It's when we rise up against those fears and the opposition that attempts to use it to their advantage and purpose that we make our world safer.
 
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SquireSCA

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I would have to imagine that the list of items that could be delivered via drone would be quite small. Unless Amazon puts in distribution centers, that stock these items, every 5 or so miles, the drones won't have the range to deliver them and get back to base. And the payload that they can carry, would have to be small.

in order to accommodate larger packages and longer ranges, the drones would have to be bigger and heavier...

The larger they are, the more danger they pose when they fall out of the sky into traffic... LOL

I am all for progress, else I would still have an iPhone. :)

However, I just don't see what the real gain is here. It's not fear, it not aversion to change. I just look at this and have to scratch my head and wonder what the real benefit is.

I can see the benefit to Amazon. $$.

But how does that help me, that they improved their profit margins by 0.25%?
 

FoxKat

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Sometimes we don't realize the greater benefit to an innovation until it's actually placed into operation. This could save lives, yours, mine, potentially countless others. Imagine if this were used as a way to deliver an interactive camera and microphone with a doctor at the command center, and emergency medical or trauma supplies into an otherwise inaccessible area. Often it's military or medical innovations that make their way into commercial and civilian applications. But sometimes commercial and civilian applications open doors to critical solutions for military search and rescue or medical applications. This is a potential side benefit for the real world application of this technology and the experience gained from its broad based implementation.
 

SquireSCA

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I will believe it when I see it. Again, unless you want a drone large enough to hurt someone when it falls out of the sky, you will be extremely limited in range and what you can carry, etc...

I can see a drone with infrared cameras that can go out and scan a large field and look for a missing child in the dark, easier and faster than with a helicopter...

I am not saying that I dislike drones. I think they are cool, with many cool uses...

But having them buzzing all over the place all day, potentially causing problems, just so that some fat person doesn't have to get off his couch to go get a soda, just seems like we are headed in the wrong direction...

An old person that is too feeble to go to the store, or have someone bring them their metamucil, isn't going to be on Amazon ordering stuff... LOL

Editing Note: Removed the "F". This is a family friendly forum. UltraDroid
 
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If we stifle innovation because someone might get hurt, we may as well live in a cave. Your can use the same analogy with pretty much any modern tech or mode of transport.
People said the same thing about cell phones. Why do you need to carry a phone? Yet phones have been used for great harm all over the world. From hacking and identity theft to triggers to activate an IED. Despite what the product may be, people will always question and fight change & innovation.

S5 tap'n
 

mountainbikermark

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Box cutter knives killed thousands on 9-11. How many millions of hours of labor, millions of dollars saved and hours of suffering prevented in non injury due to box cutter knives being safer than their alternative?

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FoxKat

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I agree with everyone else.... I don't think this is a very smart method of delivery for all the reasons mentioned above. While it's great to see Amazon working on this type of technology, there are way too many variables that can cause things to go wrong. As Jonny mentioned, I also don't see these being shot out of the sky all that often. Sure, some drunk guy will do it and he'll be made an example of by law enforcement, but the fact is, this delivery method (if it DOES come to fruition) will only be used in large metropolitan and well populated areas. So the same laws will apply in regards to discharging a firearm in a populated area. There would obviously be a 360 degree camera on this drone as well as GPS, so getting away with something like this would be slim to none. Are you really willing to loose your right to carry or own a firearm for the rest of your life in order to get a new phone, tablet, computer cable, or whatever may be in the package that's being delivered? That is if you haven't put a hole in it by firing on it and it wasn't damage when it crashed to the ground.
So yeah, I really don't see this being a big problem.....at least from anyone with half a brain.

S5 tap'n
Actually I could see this being used perhaps even more often got deliveries in less densely populated areas, places where driving a truck to for one delivery in possibly a 15-30 mile radius just isn't cost effective from a fuel and man hour perspective. Also less obstacles to deal with so another problem that's less of a problem. Also as the more wealthy buy into rural high dollar developments this becomes more necessary.
 

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If we stifle innovation because someone might get hurt, we may as well live in a cave. Your can use the same analogy with pretty much any modern tech or mode of transport.
People said the same thing about cell phones. Why do you need to carry a phone? Yet phones have been used for great harm all over the world. From hacking and identity theft to triggers to activate an IED. Despite what the product may be, people will always question and fight change & innovation.

S5 tap'n

Dude, just because I mentioned some potential bad uses for them, doesn't mean that that is my main concern... so rather than focus in on the one part you think you might have a partial point on, how about my main argument?

What's the real goal here? I don't know that taking drones that already exist, and trying to use them is "innovation"... The cargo that they can carry is severely limited due to weight restrictions. The item also needs to originate from very close to your home for the drone to be able to deliver it... I just don't see what they can really do with these things...

I am into R/C cars and Heli's and have several friends with drones. They are cool toys, to be sure, but I am not sure how they plan to make these economically viable as a delivery system, who would pay extra for this novelty once it wears off, and there is the risk that when they fail, and they will, that they will just drop out of the sky, with your package...

History will show whether this was "innovation", or just another Apple Newton...
 

SquireSCA

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Actually I could see this being used perhaps even more often got deliveries in less densely populated areas, places where driving a truck to for one delivery in possibly a 15-30 mile radius just isn't cost effective from a fuel and man hour perspective. Also less obstacles to deal with so another problem that's less of a problem. Also as the more wealthy buy into rural high dollar developments this becomes more necessary.

Ok, think about that for a minute...

What drone has a 60 or so mile round trip capability, with half of that with it carrying the cargo...

How much lift and battery power do you think these things have? A two hour or so round trip, with a single charge?

I just don't see it.
 

SquireSCA

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Amazon doesn't deliver. All this "innovation" is, is an attempt for Amazon to get into the actual delivery service. Instead of sending those shipping fees to Fed-Ex, USPS or UPS, they want the action for themselves, and so rather than purchase and maintain a fleet of delivery vans, fuel, drivers and insurance premiums and all that, they think they can get some of that revenue by using cheaper drones.

I understand the logic. I just think that the reality won't be so great...
 

FoxKat

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Ok, think about that for a minute...

What drone has a 60 or so mile round trip capability, with half of that with it carrying the cargo...

How much lift and battery power do you think these things have? A two hour or so round trip, with a single charge?

I just don't see it.
Ok, maybe not 30 mile radius but in any event it will cost less and consume less fossil fuels, cost far less man hour wages, vehicle costs and maintenance and get the job done faster and less expensively.
 

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Whatever happens, I still want the ability to shoot the darn thing down if it's hovering over my home taking video / pictures of my family / kids laying out at the pool. Huge privacy issues abound.
 
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