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gun cleaning help

Discussion in 'Off Topic Forum' started by ilikemoneygreen, Sep 25, 2012.

  1. ilikemoneygreen
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    ilikemoneygreen New Member

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    So i was clean an air rifle because it was pretty dirty and was out in rain. i think i was over ambitious with some tissue paper. its a higher quality beemon so i dont want to junk it. But to make a long story short, a whole tissue is stuck inside the nose of the barrel. Ive tried lots of things but cant quite get the thing clear. i went out and bought another gun cleaning kit, stuck on the ram looking attachment, hammered it in for 30 minutes and that rod got bent. i somehow bent the connecting part of the two cleaning poles, so now ive got tissue paper thats probably packed very tight, and a ramrod stuck in the barrel. in summary

    Barrel : [2 inches of air][tissue paper probably 2 or 3 inches] [brass looking ramrod thats 6 or seven inches with a mangled connecter][4 inches of air]

    it .177 cal.

    i poured half a thing of honing oil in the barrel a month a go, seems to have soaked in but its still not moving with a hammer. Any tricks? paper eating chems that dont rust riffling in barrel? idk, im at a loss currently. i dont want to mangle the rifling too bad either...
  2. bruben7886
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    bruben7886 New Member

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    Gunsmith
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  3. CJM
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    CJM Developer Relations Staff Member Premium Member

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    What up Money? Sounds pretty lodged in there. Have you tired the wire tips? May be able to chew it out with that.

    Tapped from a Galaxy Nexus using Xparent ICS
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  4. FoxKat
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    FoxKat Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    If you have a very fine drill (1/8" or less), you can drill a hole in the middle of the tissue paper and it will relieve the pressure it is placing against the barrel walls. Then take a paperclip and bend a very tight "U" hook on one end. Insert the rounded end of the paperclip through the hole you've drilled and past the tissue paper. Then try pulling the tissue paper out. If that doesn't work, try twisting the paperclip to get the tissue to start wrapping itself around the paperclip like a "Q-Tip". Once fully wrapped around it should shrink slightly and you should be able to pull it out.
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  5. CJM
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    CJM Developer Relations Staff Member Premium Member

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  6. justin82
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    justin82 Super Moderator Premium Member

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    this has happened to me before. just use oil and keep it wet. try to take it out the same direction you put it in on .. it takes some patience but it will come out.. if all else fails straighten a wire hanger grind a point on it .. douse the barrell with oil and start chewing at the paper. be careful take your time and you wont beat up the barrel
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  7. ilikemoneygreen
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    ilikemoneygreen New Member

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    ... anybody ever hear of Murphys law? this gun will now be known as Murphy.
    think i just broke a nuckle. also hit my elbow in the funny spot on an ammo can... im SO FRUSTRATED. rarely do i ever clinch my teeth and just wail on something in frustration but that has happened.. seeing your posts, it was a great idea to just pick the paper out little by little. i had no needle so i grabbed the wire cleaner attachment from the gun cleaner and pushed several wires forward with little fish hoom like bends. Well, the twisted wire holinding the attachment in the rod broke. i had a cuss storm quickly stabbed at it, hit my elbow on the can, the being so pissed i punched it all. arg... BAD DAY! think my next plan of attack is to put a wooden dowel in the top of barrel and hammer on the brass ramrod. seems to be my only option.
  8. CJM
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    CJM Developer Relations Staff Member Premium Member

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    If the dowel rod is long enough, carve it like a bit & use it to chew it out. Do you have a pressure washer? Clamp it down & blast it out. I just never had too much luck hammering on things.

    Tapped from a Galaxy Nexus using Xparent ICS
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  9. bruben7886
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    bruben7886 New Member

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    I wasn't trying be a clown. Although other presented ideas sound good (especially FoxKat's), you specifically stated that you don't want to mess up the rifling.....sooooo......gunsmith.
    They'll probably charge less than 30 bucks......and you don't bust knuckles or beat on funny bones by letting an expert handle it. Any gun shop can point you in the direction of a reputable gunsmith. Good luck!
  10. CJM
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    CJM Developer Relations Staff Member Premium Member

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    Don't think it was taken that way. It was good advice.

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  11. 94lt1
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    94lt1 Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    And in the future, use synthetic oil spray on the gun so it won't be as prone to the elements...

    I've had this Taurus since 1997.. it was made in 92.. I've had this gun in the snow, rain, sleet, sweat.. it still looks amazing... I'm a clean freak but it was also left outside for 2 weeks on purpose...

    Sort of an amateur glock test.lol

    Attached Files:

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  12. justin82
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    justin82 Super Moderator Premium Member

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    Good advice .. i just started this about a month ago.. little extra$$$ but well worth it
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  13. FoxKat
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    FoxKat Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    And I'll agree with bruben7886 as well. Letting a professional handle it is your safest bet - especially since it sounds like it's not just tissue paper in there anymore. Also, one other thing...rust expands when it gets saturated with any oil, but PB Blaster (an incredible solvent I always have on hand) will actually break down the rust into a liquid and shrink it rather than expand it.

    You may be dealing with the tiny coating of rust in the barrel actually having expanded and "cemented" the tissue paper in place. The PB Blaster will flush out the cutting oil you've used, replace it with the solvent, and could likely free the whole mess.

    PB Blaster 11 oz. Penetrating Catalyst Lubricant 16PB-THD at The Home Depot. It works by both breaking down the chemical composition of rust into smaller molecular compounds, and the oil becomes the suspension which wicks away those molecules thereby freeing up space between the rusted parts. It is one of the best possible rust removers out there while being safe for most applications. The longer it's left to do it's work, the better. 24 hours or more is best.

    There are alternatives which have been tested to work better under laboratory conditions, but I am not sure what timeframes each were given to do their work. They say that Liquid Wrench, out-performed PB Blaster but in my experience I have found that PB works nearly 100% of the time, where penetrating oil only works maybe 30%.

    The one combination or "home brew" that apparently works the best is Acetone and Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF). The Acetone is a very strong solvent but comes with significant risks. It is flamable, noxious, and will melt paint, plastic, and other finishes on contact. It also sucks the oil out of your skin leaving a dead white layer. Contact with Acetone too long will cause cracking and bleeding of the skin.

    The ATF has "detergents" built in which are designed to keep the metal surfaces of the interior of the transmission from building up any residue and also to prevent any corrosion. Whether these detergents are safe for a gun barrel is completely unknown to me. If it were my gun, I'd go with the tried and tested PB Blaster. See below.

    For all of you that are mechanically inclined and dealing with frozen fasteners:

    Penetrating Oils Compared

    Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break
    out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They arranged a subjective
    test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque
    required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.
    Penetrating oil .......... Average load
    None ..................... 516 pounds
    WD-40 .................... 238 pounds
    PB Blaster ............... 214 pounds
    Liquid Wrench ............ 127 pounds
    Kano Kroil ............... 106 pounds
    ATF-Acetone mix............ 53 pounds

    The Automatic Transmission fluid (ATF)-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic
    transmission fluid and acetone.

    Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this
    one particular test. A local machinist group mixed up a batch and all now
    use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as

    good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.
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  14. FoxKat
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    FoxKat Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    Just another note, Brass (and also often Aluminum) is used for the cleaning rods since it's softer than the gun steel, so it will not damage the barrel's rifling, however it is malleable, so with repeated striking by a hammer it will "squash" and enlarge on the end where being struck, as well as collapsing upon itself inside the barrel. This will be one heck of a bear to get out if you continue to strike it.

    You should place the end of the brass cleaning rod that's sticking out of the barrel into a vice, place a screwdriver against the vice where the barrel will come to rest against it, put a small sliver of wood or hard plastic over the screwdriver blade to separate it from the barrel end and protect it from scratches, and then back the face of the barrel right up against the wood or plastic, so you have barrel, wood, screwdriver and then vice. Clamp down on the cleaning rod and with a gentle prying action use the screwdriver to push the barrel end away from the vice and essentially slide it off of the cleaning rod.

    If you get some movement, open the vice, slide the rod in further, clamp down and do the same as above. You may be able to work it out millimeter by millimeter but if you don't have anything to clamp on, you may be SOL.

    Attempting to use solvents to dissolve the paper could have been an option but with all that's in that barrel now (oil in specific), I'd shy away from it. Muriatic Acid and water dissolves paper, and in low concentrations would bring little risk to the barrel, perhaps removing only nano sized metal layer from the barrel interior.

    Sodium Hydroxide is used in the manufacture of paper as well, and would soften the paper back to a pulp mixture. In either case, immediately flushing the barrel with lots of water to neutralize the acid or alkaline will stop any corrosive effect. We must remember one thing...rust is also corrosion and for rust to form, Iron must mix with Oxygen and Oxidize to form Iron Oxide (rust). Since that is a new molecule formed from two raw elements, the barrel has already suffered a surface degradation and if badly rusted will have pitting in the rifling, so using a solvent (Acid or Alkaline) may do little measurable damage more than what's already done.

    We're getting way off course here, but I am simply trying to provide answers and prevent further damage.
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  15. lloydstrans
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    lloydstrans Well-Known Member

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    PBS blaster is my personal choice, yes you have to let it set awile to reap it's benefits, salesman talked me into LPS 88 seems okay but haven't tried it on anything really stubborn. A bell hanger drill would be awesome if they make them small enough, don't think they do. ⅛ wrapped with nylon spaghetti line. Just curious how much is a new barrel?
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  16. justin82
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    justin82 Super Moderator Premium Member

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    i have been using the acetone and tranny fluid mix for a year or so now .. works really well
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  17. ilikemoneygreen
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    ilikemoneygreen New Member

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    Foxcat, that's an awesome post. Very informing. Just as a progress report, i krazy glued the tip of the attachment to the rod, then was able to pull it out of the barrel. didnt get anything on the barrel, my hands were steady :biggrin:. And the barrel isnt really rusted, i had brought it out when a loud pack of coyotes came up to my house, they like to look at my small dogs. an empty air shot scared em off, and i sat the gun on the porch just in case they came back. Then i forgot, it rained for two days here in az, which was awesome, but then i realized my gun was still out their. it wasnt in the rain per se but it was definetly getting wet from the splash and wind. Dirt was all over it when i found it :sad-b:(which was like a week after the rain). the barrel was pretty much smooth, it had hair and small dirt inside. No rust on inside as far as i could see (the tissue paper would have told me more then the penlight. )
    I might take it to a gunsmith if thats what it takes but id prefer in house. if it were larger cal and an actual home defense weapon id probably go right now.
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  18. ilikemoneygreen
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    ilikemoneygreen New Member

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    Nice to see you CJM, been a while. You still rocking your nexus?
  19. lloydstrans
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    lloydstrans Well-Known Member

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    Baking soda should dissolve the tissues, pour a tad of baking soda down the barrel now comes the bad part, to activate either pour boiling water ( I would mix some soluble oil with it) or boiling vinegar. Depending on bad it is tamped in there probable take quite a few tries. Household items, close to beer. The vinegar adds a aerating effect.
  20. FoxKat
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    FoxKat Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    Well I am pleased to hear that you got the cleaning rod out. Just how far down the barrel is the paper anyway? I read something like 4" inside and about 2" - 3" of paper? Here's an idea.

    Like CJM mentioned using the wood dowel rod to chew out the paper, I might suggest you use the straight portion of the brass cleaning rod and take a file or hacksaw, cut an X in the flat end of the rod deep enough to leave slots. Then file the 4 pieces of metal that comprise the X to angles so that the flat face where you've cut or filed is facing left when you look at the end, and the right side is sloped down and away. Essentially you're creating a drill bit with 4 "vanes" or shear-points. Then take that rod, insert it into a hand drill and use it to chew out the paper. Insert it and turn counter-clockwise (as if to remove a screw), while watching how deep it moves, then pull it out and clean out the slots. Doing this repeatedly will allow you to cut through it all.

    Using the brass will avoid damaging the barrel rifling and it's fairly easy to work with hand tools on.

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