Google to Acquire Motorola Mobility

[Beardface]

But that's the part that makes no sense. Why do people just think that Google isn't going to play the game the same way? It's defense when Google does it, but when Apple is defending the patents it owns they're anti-competitive. It doesn't make sense. Either both companies are anti-competitive or both companies are amazing and groundbreaking. One can't be one and the other the other when they're both doing the same thing...

On another note, I found the statements by the other OEM CEOs funny:



Smells of pure PR, and I can't see how any other OEM can be happy about this when they'll be competing with the supplier now (even though Google claims no favoritism, a $12B investment is going to result in them favoring Moto somehow).

Yeah, its like ESPN giving the SEC a $200M/yr contract and openly telling everyone that they won't have any bias toward the conference even though they now directly fund it. Just doesn't happen that way. When you are providing something to an array of areas (athletic conferences or smartphone makers) and then put in a very significant investment into only one of those areas, you aren't going to treat them the same way as you treat the rest. Regardless of what Google may say, they will have the financial incentive in the future to pander to Moto's needs first and foremost above all others, and will have the incentive to develop Android to run optimally on the Moto line of products with little to no regard for the other manufacturers.

The statements by HTC, LG, Samsung, and Sony/Ericsson all look good, but in reality, they're just toeing the company line and saying the right thing for now as they try to evaluate the market and see where this is heading.

 

[Preach2k]

Ok... Those of you who think that this immediately means all future Moto devices will be unlocked need to wake up. Not going to happen. First of all, lets go into the myth that Moto was the evil one for locking them down... What would they possibly have to gain by doing so? All their profits came up front through the initial purchase. Even if/when you are talking about refurb phones that are returned due to 'bricking' by faulty root, the phones being sent back out are not new, and have already been paid for by someone else. The profits they lose were negligible, and if they had unlocked phones, they would have only been more popular.

No, as long as the carriers demand the phones to be locked down, we will simply not see unlocked bootloaders until the Devs are able to crack them. Now, we might see Google shift Moto into not encrypting their bootloaders so you could possibly load some other kernals, but unless Google goes out and purchases Verizon, you just aren't going to see these unlocked phones you so crave. Bionic will still be locked, and will still come with Blur. Due to the developing that already went into it, it probably also comes encrypted, because Google isn't going to have Moto go back to the drawing board with only a couple weeks before its released. Do that, and they risk an even bigger egg on their face than HTC saw with the Thunderbolt. Really, we're not going to see any consumer-related benefits to this until likely late Q4 2011 at the earliest. For the time being, this was all about getting the patents to get Apple and Microsoft off Android's junk.

Doesn't your service provider decide if your phones or locked or not? I do not think that this acquiring will affect the Boot Loader being locked or not...

 

[jroc]

But that's the part that makes no sense. Why do people just think that Google isn't going to play the game the same way? It's defense when Google does it, but when Apple is defending the patents it owns they're anti-competitive. It doesn't make sense. Either both companies are anti-competitive or both companies are amazing and groundbreaking. One can't be one and the other the other when they're both doing the same thing...

On another note, I found the statements by the other OEM CEOs funny:



Smells of pure PR, and I can't see how any other OEM can be happy about this when they'll be competing with the supplier now (even though Google claims no favoritism, a $12B investment is going to result in them favoring Moto somehow).

Ok...how many times have folks came after Apple for patents vs how many times Apple has went after folks recently? In this sense I mean HTC, Samsung, Motorola. In some cases it was a response to Apple filing first.

If Google uses the patents just in case someone comes after them....thats not the same thing as actively going after others. That will be the difference. Since Moto and MS are in a case now...guess this means Google can start using them to defend asap. If the Xoom lawsuit goes thru...Google can start using them to defend asap.

Can you honestly say that Apple possibly going after the Xoom...is protecting their patents? They mentioned the Xoom for...hardware.... A pure Honeycomb tablet at that.

Like I mentioned...if they start actively going after others....not including MS and Apple cuz those 2 already came after Android and Android manufactures....then I will see it no different. What if they do go after others....but the licensing deal is less than other recent settlements...or what if the deal is Google ads or apps on the phone....can we say its the same thing? Apple is trying to block sales of Samsung tablets and phones.

Thats why I said especially Apple....right now. Its the way they're going about it.

 

[Beardface]

Doesn't your service provider decide if your phones or locked or not? I do not think that this acquiring will affect the Boot Loader being locked or not...

That's the point I was making. There were a lot of people on here posting that this merger would mean unlocked bootloaders for everyone! Yeah, that's just not going to happen as long as Verizon & Co are still your carriers, regardless of what Google would ideally want.

 

[jroc]

Also about the other Android manufactures....they are already in that same boat with WP7. They dont know whats gonna happen when Nokia starts making WP7 phones. MS already said Nokia will be able to do unique things with their WP7 phones.

HTC, LG and Samsung and everyone else that does an Android and WP7 phone are already in this boat. Question is which boat looks the best to stay afloat in the water?

 

[EFGantry]

Ok...how many times have folks came after Apple for patents vs how many times Apple has went after folks recently? In this sense I mean HTC, Samsung, Motorola. In some cases it was a response to Apple filing first.

If Google uses the patents just in case someone comes after them....thats not the same thing as actively going after others. That will be the difference. Since Moto and MS are in a case now...guess this means Google can start using them to defend asap. If the Xoom lawsuit goes thru...Google can start using them to defend asap.

Can you honestly say that Apple possibly going after the Xoom...is protecting their patents? They mentioned the Xoom for...hardware.... A pure Honeycomb tablet at that.

Like I mentioned...if they start actively going after others....not including MS and Apple cuz those 2 already came after Android and Android manufactures....then I will see it no different. What if they do go after others....but the licensing deal is less than other recent settlements...or what if the deal is Google ads or apps on the phone....can we say its the same thing? Apple is trying to block sales of Samsung tablets and phones.

Thats why I said especially Apple....right now. Its the way they're going about it.

exactly! right now, Apple is attacking everyone and anyone. if Google turns around and does the same thing, then they're just as bad. but, right now, it appears (at least to me) that Apple is being the bully, and Google is trying to insulate itself from attack.

 

[EFGantry]

That's the point I was making. There were a lot of people on here posting that this merger would mean unlocked bootloaders for everyone! Yeah, that's just not going to happen as long as Verizon & Co are still your carriers, regardless of what Google would ideally want.

i agree that it's the carriers (and primarily vzw) who are responsible for the lock down. however, Google's acquisition of Moto changes the bargaining positions. up until now, Moto didn't have much of a bargaining position on this issue. but now, Andy's owner has control of Moto. if Google refuses to develop locked down phones for vzw, i doubt that vzw is just going to turn its back on Google/Moto. now, if vzw wants to continue to sell Moto phones, it may have to be more accomodating to Moto's wishes, as opposed to the other way around as it's been up til now.

 

[Beardface]

i agree that it's the carriers (and primarily vzw) who are responsible for the lock down. however, Google's acquisition of Moto changes the bargaining positions. up until now, Moto didn't have much of a bargaining position on this issue. but now, Andy's owner has control of Moto. if Google refuses to develop locked down phones for vzw, i doubt that vzw is just going to turn its back on Google/Moto. now, if vzw wants to continue to sell Moto phones, it may have to be more accomodating to Moto's wishes, as opposed to the other way around as it's been up til now.

There are bargaining chips, but you're completely backward in your thinking.

Verizon and the other carriers have ALL the bargaining chips. They all want locked bootloaders. Where else will Google/Moto go? They have no other options. Its not like Google has their own cell service that they can get in motion if they don't like what Verizon has to say. When it comes to Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, and T*Mob, it literally is a 'take it or leave it' when it comes to their demands. Either Google/Moto locks their bootloaders, or they make no money selling smartphones that work on no networks.

 

[TyrantII]

There are bargaining chips, but you're completely backward in your thinking.

Verizon and the other carriers have ALL the bargaining chips. They all want locked bootloaders. Where else will Google/Moto go? They have no other options. Its not like Google has their own cell service that they can get in motion if they don't like what Verizon has to say. When it comes to Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, and T*Mob, it literally is a 'take it or leave it' when it comes to their demands. Either Google/Moto locks their bootloaders, or they make no money selling smartphones that work on no networks.

Seeing how a good 1/3 of VZW's phone lineup if motorolla, and seeing how backwards other phone manufactures can be, I don't think your correct in your assumption how much they need each other.

Example A: take a look at how Apple hardware snuck in and then manhandled the completely locked down mobile phone market.

The cell co's gave up a good number of chips when they allowed that to happen. The bleeding continues until we get to the ultimate end for them, as competitive service providers only.

 

[Beardface]

Seeing how a good 1/3 of VZW's phone lineup if motorolla, and seeing how backwards other phone manufactures can be, I don't think your correct in your assumption how much they need each other.

Example A: take a look at how Apple hardware snuck in and then manhandled the completely locked down mobile phone market.

The cell co's gave up a good number of chips when they allowed that to happen. The bleeding continues until we get to the ultimate end for them, as competitive service providers only.

The simple fact that Apple is now on Verizon completely eliminates the chips that Google and Moto would have. In the past, if Moto wanted to take a hard stance pre-Apple, it might have worked, but lets be honest. Verizon knows that if they want to take a hardline stance with either Apple or Google, they can, especially Google. Verizon would not care as much as you think they would if they lost Android, because they know a far majority of their subscribers would simply move to Apple if it happened.

Apple could afford to play hardball with Verizon, because Apple was not only a name in the smartphone industry, but they were THE name. People will buy anything with an Apple logo on it, regardless of price, and VZN knew that and wanted to take advantage of it. Google does not have that kind of leverage, and likely never will, because their devices are just too fragmented and the loyalties to brand are far too splintered.

 

[czerdrill]

Ok...how many times have folks came after Apple for patents vs how many times Apple has went after folks recently? In this sense I mean HTC, Samsung, Motorola. In some cases it was a response to Apple filing first.

If Google uses the patents just in case someone comes after them....thats not the same thing as actively going after others. That will be the difference. Since Moto and MS are in a case now...guess this means Google can start using them to defend asap. If the Xoom lawsuit goes thru...Google can start using them to defend asap.

Can you honestly say that Apple possibly going after the Xoom...is protecting their patents? They mentioned the Xoom for...hardware.... A pure Honeycomb tablet at that.

Like I mentioned...if they start actively going after others....not including MS and Apple cuz those 2 already came after Android and Android manufactures....then I will see it no different. What if they do go after others....but the licensing deal is less than other recent settlements...or what if the deal is Google ads or apps on the phone....can we say its the same thing? Apple is trying to block sales of Samsung tablets and phones.

Thats why I said especially Apple....right now. Its the way they're going about it.

Eh...I guess I don't look at it as a bully/bullied scenario. I look at it as a company protecting it's interests. I understand your point, but to me that just seems like a childish mentality. Patent suits happen all the time. The only people who call it bullying are the people on the other side of the suit. It's a normal, accepted and common part of corporate America. Patent laws need to be reworked, sure, but I personally don't see suing first as bullying.

Remember, Google was arguing about "bogus patents" and being bullied by the entire apple, MSFT consortium, and now they're in the patent game as well. Maybe it is defense, but at the very least it makes them look like hypocrites (not that they would care of course, because they're protecting their business, just like any other company would do). And what happens to open source? They're going for vertical integration and that's going to affect the other OEMs whether Google swears it won't or not.

You really think those canned responses from the other CEOs are genuine? They're almost verbatim and you know many a board meeting is going on today to discuss the ramifications of this. It's not just Google saying "we will not be bullied anymore!", but I guess romanticizing it like that makes it sound cooler...

 

[czerdrill]

The simple fact that Apple is now on Verizon completely eliminates the chips that Google and Moto would have. In the past, if Moto wanted to take a hard stance pre-Apple, it might have worked, but lets be honest. Verizon knows that if they want to take a hardline stance with either Apple or Google, they can, especially Google. Verizon would not care as much as you think they would if they lost Android, because they know a far majority of their subscribers would simply move to Apple if it happened.

Apple could afford to play hardball with Verizon, because Apple was not only a name in the smartphone industry, but they were THE name. People will buy anything with an Apple logo on it, regardless of price, and VZN knew that and wanted to take advantage of it. Google does not have that kind of leverage, and likely never will, because their devices are just too fragmented and the loyalties to brand are far too splintered.

Exactly. Google simply does not have that much pull with any carrier. Apple does, and it's because they revolutionized the industry, and there is always demand for the iPhone, even 2 years after a model is released.

 

[EFGantry]

There are bargaining chips, but you're completely backward in your thinking.

Verizon and the other carriers have ALL the bargaining chips. They all want locked bootloaders. Where else will Google/Moto go? They have no other options. Its not like Google has their own cell service that they can get in motion if they don't like what Verizon has to say. When it comes to Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, and T*Mob, it literally is a 'take it or leave it' when it comes to their demands. Either Google/Moto locks their bootloaders, or they make no money selling smartphones that work on no networks.

i may not end up being correct, but i wouldn't call my thinking "backward." considering how well Moto phones sell for vzw, and how well Andy devices sell for vzw, do you really think they hold ALL of the chips?! what if Google said, "ok, we're not gonna let you sell any Moto phones. and, we're not going to extend Andy licenses to HTC and Sammy for any Andy devices on vzw - just at&t, t-mo, and sprint." now, i know that would never happen, because it's neither beneficial to Google or VZW. but, i don't think it's accurate for you to say that VZW will be able to stick to it's "take it or leave it" attitude. the bargaining power has swayed, and both sides will have to give...

 

[EFGantry]

The simple fact that Apple is now on Verizon completely eliminates the chips that Google and Moto would have. In the past, if Moto wanted to take a hard stance pre-Apple, it might have worked, but lets be honest. Verizon knows that if they want to take a hardline stance with either Apple or Google, they can, especially Google. Verizon would not care as much as you think they would if they lost Android, because they know a far majority of their subscribers would simply move to Apple if it happened.

Apple could afford to play hardball with Verizon, because Apple was not only a name in the smartphone industry, but they were THE name. People will buy anything with an Apple logo on it, regardless of price, and VZN knew that and wanted to take advantage of it. Google does not have that kind of leverage, and likely never will, because their devices are just too fragmented and the loyalties to brand are far too splintered.

really??? the mkt share numbers would indicate otherwise. Andy OS is ascending at an astounding rate, has overtaken iOS, and iOS has largely plateaued. VZW would take a HUGE hit if they stopped carrying Andy OS.

 

[Beardface]

really??? the mkt share numbers would indicate otherwise. Andy OS is ascending at an astounding rate, has overtaken iOS, and iOS has largely plateaued. VZW would take a HUGE hit if they stopped carrying Andy OS.

If you don't think Apple would have a massive boom to their market numbers if Andy left Verizon, you're fooling yourself. Yes, Android is very popular, but that has A LOT to do with the fact you can get a ton of the devices on the very cheap and at extreme discount prices due to the market being flooded with them. Apple will always sell. Verizon would get by just fine without Android.

If you are wondering who needs who more, Android or Verizon... Android needs Verizon a whole lot more than Verizon needs Android.