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Good News for HTC; Judge Finds Apple violates HTC Patents with MAC

Discussion in 'Android News' started by dgstorm, Jul 27, 2011.

  1. dgstorm
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    dgstorm Editor in Chief Staff Member Premium Member

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    [​IMG]

    It would appear that HTC may soon be able to start "turning the tables" on Apple with their patent infringement lawsuit, or at the very least develop some leveraging room for a potential negotiation. In an interesting turn of events, a Judge has ruled in a separate case that Apple is infringing on several patents owned by HTC. Interestingly, it isn't in the mobile arena, but instead it's Apple's MAC OS X computers that are infringing on HTC's patents. Recently, HTC acquired silicon manufacturer S3 Graphics. Technologies from this company are used in several different Mac personal computers. Here's a quote from the DailyTech.com article with some more details,
    This ruling allows for a partial ban on all imports of Macs. And, lest you think that this doesn't give HTC any real leveraging room compared to Apple's lawsuit against them, keep in mind that almost all Macs are actually made primarily in Asia. Also, Apple has a currently prospering computer lineup, and posted about $17.5B USD in computer sales last year. This could be a sharp kick to the groin for Apple's U.S. Mac sales. Ultimately, this could allow HTC to maneuver into a position forcing Apple to work out a cross-licensing agreement. Ironically, when HTC originally purchased S3 Graphics for $300M USD, investors scoffed at the deal. Now it appears that the purchase of S3 Graphics by HTC could end up saving the company.

    This (formerly sealed/non-public) ITC ruling will soon go before a full six judge ITC panel for a final confirmation. I'm sure HTC investors, executives, and employees are awaiting the results with bated breath.

    Source: DailyTech
  2. importune
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    importune Theme Developer Theme Developer

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    I gotta say- it takes a special kind of someone to like apple. I can see the visually pleasing aspect of their products- and I've wanted an apple monitor for quite some time now... but I will never, ever like apple as a company. Their products are overpriced and rarely compatible. They purposefully attempt to lock users out of managing their own system, which limits customization. And last, but not least, they're total assholes the whole time.


    Super sadface. Apple = uncool people

    MOD EDIT!
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2011
  3. g_what
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    g_what Member

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    I agree 100%.

    I'm so glad HTC won this battle. Now hopefully Samsung can pull a win as well.
  4. SwiftLegend
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    SwiftLegend New Member

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    Ha what goes around comes around. I agree with importune though. Apple does have nice products, I'm even a fan of the iPod Touch/iPhone, after playing with my sister's and trying to jailbreak it for her. But they truly are overpriced. My sister paid like $200 -250 for her iPhone 4. I paid $199 for my X2... Dual core, 4.3' screen, and to me, a much better experience.
  5. jroc
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    jroc Well-Known Member

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    HTC....brilliant move buying S3 Graphics recently. Makes you wonder why in the world didnt Apple do this? Did they not know about HTC trying to get S3?
  6. OneTenderRebel
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    OneTenderRebel New Member

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    Apple definitely appears to be sue happy as of late but it's completely laughable that people here think Google is this all good, all perfect company. Google the king of invading your privacy, tracking your every move on the internet, responsible for 90% of ad's on the internet. I am not saying google is bad or good but you people who call Apple all these terrible names are just ridiculous.
  7. OneTenderRebel
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    OneTenderRebel New Member

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    Had to send that last message quick so I will elaborate a bit more. It's not about these companies being "good" or "bad", all these companies want one thing and one thing only and that is money. They will try to get it by WHATEVER means necessary. Whether it's suing everyone and their brother (Apple) or loading the internet down with ads and tracking your every move (google). It's all about the money. No one company is better than the other in big business. They are all evil genius's. You honestly think Google cares about you but somehow Apple just hates everyone. Think about how illogical that sounds. Truly think about it, separate your love of android and hatred of apple. It's just funny and completely ridiculous how so many people are personally offended by the actions of a company, whether it be Apple, Microsoft, Google, insert any big business name here. I don't know what else to say here but honestly hatred is the ugliest trait any human can have and there is a ton of hatred for these companies when really don't we have much more important things to worry about.
  8. CJM
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    CJM Developer Relations Staff Member Premium Member

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    Couldn't have said it any better.


    Sent from the Unbrickable DROID
  9. g_what
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    g_what Member

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    While I do agree that these companies are primarily concerned with money, I disagree that what Apple and Google do is comparable.

    Google uses ads and tracks info to make money, but this does not stifle competition. Apple is suing other companies to try and stop competition. They want their product (iPhone) to be the best, and since they don't have that title anymore they are trying to remove competition from the playing field rather than rise to the challenge and compete. If Apple had won this lawsuit who knows what HTC would have done (in all likeliness probably find another reason to sue Apple to stay in the game). Same with the Apple/Samsung lawsuit. Apple wants Samsung to stop importing and selling its products in the US. No more Galaxy series. All of these are to remove competition. In the end this could potentially reduce innovation because there is not a need. This would be bad for the consumer (such as you and me) who want the best. If the iPhone is all that's out there they have no reason to push farther faster. That's how it was in the beginning.

    Being totally honest, I have no problem with Apple products. My family has an iMac at home. I own an iPod (5th gen classic, got it way before Android/iOS existed). What I don't like is their 'strategy' for competing. There is little to no good that can come from it.
  10. Beardface
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    Beardface New Member

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    100% agreed. I do not care that Apple is trying to make money. I don't care that their ad campaign is claiming they are more intelligent and "cool" than anyone else... Those are just things that allow me to make fun of them going forward.

    But when their actions are all about eliminating competition through lawsuits and bullying instead of trying to improve their product to compete, thats when I have a problem. If I were to use an iDevice, I want to use it because its the best device on the market, not because they made sure it was the ONLY device on the market.
  11. czerdrill
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    czerdrill New Member

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    I think the point being made is, neither company really cares about its consumers. They're just doing what they have to do to get money. It's not like Google would turn down a profit to make their customers happy, and neither would Apple.

    Apple goes sue crazy, and Google uses patents without licensing. The difference is, people here will excuse Google for doing what they do, but proclaim that Apple is the spawn of Satan for doing what they do. It's just the disparity that makes no sense. If you're going to bash Apple for protecting their IP, then you have to bash Google/OEMs for using IP without permission. Doesn't make sense not to.

    People take Google's "do no evil" a little too literally, and have somehow convinced themselves that Google's mission is to make everyone happy, even if it costs them money. I assure you it is not. Google is like any other company in that money is what drives them, and not harmony and utopia. Apple goes about it one way, Google another. If you want to argue that Apple just sues everyone to stifle competition, I can argue that Google just steals patents/ideas to get a profit. How can you dispute that?

    The fact of the matter is, it's what companies do. Corporate lawsuits are filed everyday by every company (including Google). Not really that big a deal that Apple is doing what they're doing, it's the nature of business. I find it incredibly silly that people seem to be suggesting that Apple should just sit back and not fight for their IP, and rather just give people a pass. What's the point of patents if you're going to be accused of "stifling competition" everytime you try to protect your patents?
  12. soulpatch
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    soulpatch New Member

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    With the current state of IP filings and the lack of a requirement to do much more then sketch out an idea I do think it is within reason to fault Apple more so then Google in this instance. Corporations now run around filing patents on things that might happen in the future that they have yet to spend money really R&Ding just to give them leverage in the future just in case. They buy other companies to obtain their patents even though they did not spend a dime on the R&D or wish to continue to use that company's products.

    The entire system needs an overhaul. Until that happens we will continue to have these frivilous lawsuits over IP that really should not exist. I am not saying one should not be able to protect their IP BUT you should have to invest in it and show it works or at the least make one hell of a case for it working in the future with more advanced technology.

    The system is broke and as such we the consumer pay for it through higher costs goods all to repay for soem napkin sketch someone filed....
  13. czerdrill
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    czerdrill New Member

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    well yeah, the system is broken, but it is the system, so complaining about that is a moot point. it's like saying i don't like the law so i'm going to break it. You're still breaking the law. Patents are given, companies sue, and courts decide. That's how its been forever, and thats most probably how its always gonna be. The hypotheticals and "what should have been done"s, are irrelevant.

    I find more fault in Google/Android OEMs for violating patents knowingly, and then trying to fight it out in court. And the courts seem to agree with me.

    And as far as buying other companies, Samsung has just done that with S3 in an attempt to say that Apple violated it's patents and them doing that is being heralded as a "great move" by people here. Again, the disparity is ridiculous. If you feel one way about one company, you have to feel the same about the other. If not, you just look like you're agreeing when it helps you and complaining when it doesnt.

    All sides, Apple/Google/OEMs are just protecting themselves. It's foolish to expect anything less.
  14. czerdrill
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    czerdrill New Member

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    ^By Samsung I meant HTC....
  15. jseah
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    jseah New Member

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    In another thread about the IP lawsuit Apple filed against Samsung, one of the posters defending Apple were saying that Apple was right in suing because it is an American company and Samsung is an Asian company stealing their secrets. And yet he made no mention of the IP lawsuits filed against Apple because it is the reverse, an American company stealing secrets from non-American companies.
  16. czerdrill
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    czerdrill New Member

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    Both sides have a right to sue, there's no "great moves" by one side and the other side is doing something dumb. They're protecting their patents, that's all. Maybe Apple is in the news so much because more people are stealing their patents then the reverse, but the point is every company sues. Corporate lawsuits are not "patented" by Apple. That's just how business works. Complaining about patent law and how patents are given is irrelevant. IF a court finds that a patent is not legit, the court will decide fairly, like the Apple/Amazon "app store" thing was. I'm not bold enough to say I know more about patent law than the courts and organizations that govern those things. Pretty sure they're making a fair decision based on the facts, and not speculation.

    If someone steals your IP, you sue. Plain and simple. Calling Apple a stifler of competition for suing, and then heralding HTC's countersuit as a "great move" makes no sense. They're both doing it for money, not to protect the greater good and provide a heavenly utopia where all smartphone users can exist in harmony like some people think. And the same goes in the reverse. If HTC finds that apple violated one of their patents, why wouldn't they sue? But that's a "great, smart move"? Why? But Apple's isn't?
  17. jroc
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    jroc Well-Known Member

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    Ok...so if Apple would bought S3 graphics, that wouldnt be considered a brilliant move on their part?

    To me it probably woulda been even more brilliant...
  18. czerdrill
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    czerdrill New Member

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    What I'm saying is if buying out another company and inheriting their patents makes you brilliant, why doesn't patenting something yourself make you brilliant? Why does that makes you a stifler of competition? Apple patented certain things which Android OEMS/Google used without permission. Why isn't suing in itself a "brilliant" move?

    The point is, its business. That's what they do. If you want to call it brilliant feel free, but it's brilliance on Apple's side too. If they reach a settlement with HTC they'll make more money directly off Android then Google does (not that that's hard or anything), so that's pretty brilliant, no? The S3 Patents only apply to OSX and not iOS so Apple stands to make millions off Android from a settlement or from licensing their patents, and Google stands to lose millions. Brilliant.
  19. Dave12308
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    Dave12308 New Member

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    I can't see how this lawsuit was won by HTC. It makes no sense. It is referring the the graphics adapters used in Macs. Which just happen to be absolutely no different from the graphics adapters used in PCs aside from the fact that PC video cards use a BIOS, Mac video cards use an EFI firmware.

    Macs use ATI, nVidia, or Intel graphics. I can't see how Apple has done anything wrong; since ALL PC makers use these same exact graphics chipsets. Wouldn't it be ATI/nVidia/Intel violating S3's patents; since ALL of these chipsets are capable of S3TC (S3 Texture Compression)?
  20. Dave12308
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    Dave12308 New Member

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    And to add on to my comments here, I also don't know what OS X has to do with anything. S3TC is HARDWARE capability of the video chipset. Sure, OS X uses OpenGL; which can make use of S3TC. But so does Windows (and on Windows, DirectX can also use S3TC). Linux uses OpenGL as well, and handles S3TC.