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For those of you worried about overclocking put your minds at ease

Discussion in 'Android Hacks and Help' started by Geken, Feb 2, 2010.

  1. Geken
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    Geken New Member

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  2. dawningmoment
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    dawningmoment New Member

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    That's good news. But does that mean it's impossible for these chips to get that hot? Anyone know of a way to gauge the heat on the chip?
  3. wuyanks
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    wuyanks DF News Team Premium Member

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  4. RinTinTigger
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    RinTinTigger Premium Member Premium Member

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    Having a DROID overclocked to 1.1ghz in your pocket will cause heat. do you know under what circumstances they took those temperatures?
  5. Geken
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    Geken New Member

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    I don't know the circumstances, but you know manufacturers, they are always talking extremes.

    It would be best to keep the temps well under 105 C, simply to maximize the life of the processor. but given the temps we are getting now (around 40 - 45 C under load at 800Mhz) we should be okay, especially since most of us are only going to have these things for 2 years or so.
  6. wuyanks
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    wuyanks DF News Team Premium Member

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    just an fyi,

    if you use SetCPU, when your phone is in said pocket, it will go into sleep mode, and trigger a slower speed (as low as 125mhz)
  7. mikes
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    mikes New Member

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    That's completely meaningless.

    First, as you said, it is not the processor used in the Motorola Droid. Second, you list the range for the extended temp part - there's also a commercial part with a range of 0-90C. None of the teardowns on the web have bothered to remove the RAM chip which covers the application processor, so the markings aren't visible to determine the specific chip they used.

    Finally, when a manufacturer purchases in the quantities used in the Droid, they can order custom spec parts, trading off (as an example specific to the spec you quoted) temperature range in order to get a better price. Only Motorola and TI know the actual spec for the chip used.
  8. bL33d
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    bL33d New Member

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    U know that no matter what speed u are at for Max speed
    Means nothen for when ur phone is not in use. The
    Phone can go to 1ghz but only when running programs
    it ain't just gonna run maxxed out all the time... when
    Not in use it wont run any faster or hotter then a stock droid.
  9. Geken
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    Geken New Member

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    I don't think I would call it completely meaningless, I am just providing some information, I didn't claim anything crazy. I was just referencing it so people didn't worry about getting their chips up to 40C . I was simply trying to be helpful.

    I am not arguing your point, which is valid, I'm just saying that there's some info out there and the chips are similar. I think it's a valid assumption that the operating temps are similar and not dramatically different.
  10. mikes
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    mikes New Member

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    Well, there's this:
    So, you were doing more than simply providing information, you were telling people that the information should somehow ease any concerns they might have about overclocking and heat.

    What I pointed out was that the information you provided didn't apply to the Droid, so any such claims based on it were meaningless. Which is correct.

    How do you know that's the junction temperature (which is what the datasheet refers to)? All the temp apps I've seen use the AK8973 sensor, which is thermally remote from the OMAP3430 substrate. Without knowing the thermal design, the only valid assumption is that the measured temp moves in the same direction as the average processor temp (as long as the ambient temperature is constant).

    Even if one did know the exact relationship between average processor temperature and the sensed temperature, the processor itself has 9 independent voltage domains. It's entirely possible (for example), that the processor is overclocked and getting too hot, while the rest of the chip is not, so the average temperature appears OK. The only way to be reasonably sure is to measure the current for each of the supplies. TI provides a table showing maximum current draws for exactly that reason.
    If that is the case, then this too would apply (from the datasheet):
    Clearly, TI's concern is that damage is cumulative - the more you run it, and the higher the temperature and/or frequency, the shorter the expected lifetime. It appears that running the processor at 600MHz (OPP5) "burns it up" about twice as fast as running it at 550MHz (OPP4). Even higher overclocking likely accelerates this further.

    IOW, overclocking will damage your Droid. Probably not quickly or catastrophically, but it should be expected to shorten it's lifetime.

    "OPP5-6" refers to the core/processor supply voltage. There are lots of claims that the Droid is underclocked @550MHz, and TI specs it for 600MHz. Again, making the (possibly invalid) assumption that the Droid has the same specs as the OPA3530, we find that the actual TI spec is 550MHz @ OPP4. 600MHz requires OPP5, which is simply not supported at junction temperatures above 90C (see above). It's not clear exactly what changes the people building overclocking kernels are making - these may not change OPP, and hence be putting the processor into an unsupported area (which is almost definitely the case for any overclocking beyond 600MHz).
  11. drmcstford
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    drmcstford New Member

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    I have the Verizon Extended Warranty if anything happens take it back to my friend who works there no ?'s asked and bam new phone :icon_ banana: I have mine at 800 mhz
  12. Geken
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    Geken New Member

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    Cool, thanks for the input, that all makes sense
  13. mikes
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    mikes New Member

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    Unfortunately, there are always dishonest people willing to cheat the system. Not much can be done about it, although it costs the rest of us real money.
    -VZW Extended Warranty
  14. miamidroid
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    miamidroid New Member

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    Im not gunna take the time to break down your post but there are some valid points. However, I am sure none of you run the fone on anything higher than 60 degrees. I am running at 1ghz and it wont even pass 44 with heavy use. I have been OC computers for years now, what kills chips is heat. You will run into reliability issues before the chip goes. Random freezes and restarts might mean you are running too far out of the operating range. I am sure I will enjoy 1ghz out of my fone for a while and those runnning 800mhz are even better off. So stop putting panic into peoples minds, cuz OC is nothing new... if it was such a hazard people wouldnt do it..
  15. Se7enLC
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    Se7enLC New Member

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    Just because the processor is rated to operate up to that temp and/or speed does not mean that everything else is. The socket, the other chips, the memory, the screen, the battery, wifi card, etc. The Droid has been built, tested, and sold at 550Mhz. Just because it CAN go faster does not mean that it can do so safely. Overclocking is and should always be an "at your own risk" undertaking.

    That Being Said - If you are overclocking, you will most likely see system instability and crashes before you see permanent heat damage. If your droid is crashing, it's too hot and/or fast, and you should slow it down and cool it off.

    There's no reason to try to put people's minds at ease about overclocking. If they are uneasy about it, they shouldn't do it. Simple enough. Same with rooting - if the benefits are not worth the risk to you, don't try it.

    I'm pretty happy with 800Mhz, as a side note, and I find that it is generally running at 30 C or less when I'm not doing much.
  16. mikes
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    mikes New Member

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    Or even read it, apparently...
    All modern Intel Pentium, etc. processors have an integral PN junction temperature sensor on the chip substrate, so you can determine the actual junction temperatures pretty closely.

    As I said, the temp sensor in the Droid is separate (physically and thermally) from the processor, and it does not tell you how hot the processor is. In fact, the processor should be expected to be considerably hotter than the sensor.
  17. miamidroid
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    miamidroid New Member

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    Im sure there are some safety protocol where it would shut the fone down over a certain temp. I had a lg vx10000 and although it wasn't considered a smart fone it had a temp sensor that wouldn't allow the fone to operate passed a certain temp. The temp sensor is not for anything other than knowing the core operating temp, I can guarantee its not there to tell you the ambient temp.
  18. quadjacks
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    quadjacks New Member

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    Face it guys, some people simply like to fight, this is probably not the only arena they have this issue in... check their thread history.... The OP has been owned up and let it go.... It's moved from informative, to punch and jab....:icon_ banana:
  19. eagle1967
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    eagle1967 Developer Developer

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    Here is my plan... bought droid in december that gives until this december for 1 year. If noone has burned up their phone by december with overclocking than i will do it and bam upgrade after 1 year with no cost than only 1 more year until the droid 9 comes out with the intel i22 inside 1080p mind reader super swipe keyboard fm transmitter with fm radio, digital tv tuner flash 19.1 beta and the fine print with hands free bluetooth dialing coming soon. :)
  20. quadjacks
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    quadjacks New Member

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    I agree, as I've gone through Palm, Titan, TouchPro, and now Droid in less than two years.... And i dont have the finances some guys here and on other Smart Phone forums have, as i have seen them double the types of phones in as many years. I think the OP based his info on the fact that it shouldn't explode on your ear causing the lost of sight and hearing before your next upgrade.... Just my two cents.....