Exercising with Droid Razr Maxx and it no longer works

[Xfactorx316]

Ag3nt X, I respect what you are suggesting, and rather than get upset about the jab, I'm going to expand upon it.

Conformal Coating is simply term used to describe a coating process that conforms to unusual shapes, with the concept that when used on PCBs (Printed Circuit Boards), it will "conform" to all the nooks and crannies between, under and around the various board components. Where your implication that I was either ignorant of (a lack of understanding), or was simply ignoring (either forgetting or simply choosing to ignore), the fact that the PCB (and all other internal surfaces of the Droid RAZR/MAXX), is coated with a Conformal Coating fell short, is that any one of countless compounds can be used to coat the surfaces, and they can be applied in a number of ways, with each compound and method of application having its pros and cons.

There is hot dipping, where the compounds are heated to a viscous temperature and then the apparatus (circuit board) is dipped into the liquid compound. This works well for the PCBs themselves, but won't work well for an entire completed phone. Also, depending on the melting temperature of the compound, it can potentially be too high resulting in actual damage.

There is also solvent dipping where the compounds are diluted in a evaporation solvent, however since the solvent can also do damage to the surface it's being applied to - specifically plastics and polymers, its application benefits are limited.

There's spray application, which while it may work OK for flat surfaces, it doesn't find its way into the smaller crevices, and so works best for things like Glass (Hydrophobic - water repelling), exterior paints (Omniphobic - dirt repelling), floors (Oleophobic - oil repelling), etc. It is also less uniform and results in lots of waste and cost.

There's brush application which takes on most of the properties of spray application but provides even less protection for cracks and crevices, and also tends to use even more compound through uneven application and waste so cost and weight can be higher.

Then there's Vacuum Deposition coating, where the device is placed into a near 100% vacuum and then the compound is atomized and sprayed into the container to bring the pressure back to ambient room pressure. As a result, the atomized fluid or solid adheres to any surface that was previously exposed to the air, essentially replacing the air at the surface with a nano coating of the compound. This results in the most complete and uniform application, and can be extremely carefully monitored for thickness of application. Too thick and it adds unnecessary weight and cost, too thin and it loses its effectiveness.

Then there's the issue of what compound. Some as mentioned above are great at repelling one potential offender, but are not so good at others. Mixes of various compounds can bridge the gap somewhat to provide protection for various substances, but at reduced effectiveness of any one. Same holds true regarding surface being applied to, so where some compounds will adhere well to one type of surface, they may not retain their qualities when applied to another. Also, weather, sun (UV Radiation), heat (expansion and contraction such as are in electronics - which can result in the coatings being compromised), solvents, alkalines, acids, abrasives, etc., all play a role in deciding what solutions are applied and what protection they are to afford.

In a circuit board we also have the issue of electricity and the need for any coating to have an extremely high electrical conductivity resistance (insulating benefit). If the coating even slightly increases conductivity, it may still protect the circuit from water for instance, but can be one giant short across all contacts at the same time. THIS is why I mentioned SALT. Water by itself, the chemical compound H2O is an insulator, meaning it does not conduct electricity. It's the impurities in water that turn it into a conductor.

When salts are disolved in water, the water becomes an electrolyte. This allows electric current to flow. The salts separate into different electrically charged atoms called ions. Salt, or Sodium Chloride (NaCl), breaks up into positive NA ions and negative Ci ions. Since any conduction of electricity outside of the circuit itself, the pathways intended for electrons will disrupt the operation of the device, it can cause currents to flow in excess of what various components can safely handle, potentially resulting in permanent damage and failure of the component(s).

Salt is also a catalyst in corrosion. Salt causes Oxidation-reduction reactions, which creates corrosion. Any electric current applied to that Oxidation-reduction reaction speeds up the corrosion (ever see the top of a car battery's terminals?) Copper (the main conductor in these PCBs is very susceptible to corrosion or Oxidation (the Green color you see on copper water pipes or copper roofs on buildings for example). Corrosion in these devices can burn traces off the board in mere hours, permanently disrupting the flow of current and destroying the device.

​

Finally, since the application of a chemical compound in water with electricity present can alter the chemical properties of substances it comes in contact with (insert Conformal Coating here), it can result in a breakdown of the desirable properties and leave you with a complete failure of its intended purpose. The nano coating inside these phones MAY be WATER RESISTANT (or as Motorola says "Splash Resistant"), nowhere does it say that it is Saltwater Resistant, or resistant of any other compound.

So in closing, before you intend to question someone's knowledge about a subject and try to discredit them, do your own research.

:hail:

 

[electricman58]

ROFLMAO!!! DAMN! TOUCHE' FOXKAT! :-D

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Droid Forums

 

[Shadez]

General Statement: You know it's ok to agree to disagree..

 

[FoxKat]

Folks, we were trying to assist the OP in determining what may have caused his phone to fail and perhaps some suggestions to revive it.

It's completely reasonable to consider the possibility that the nano coating which was mean to protect the phone's internals from "Splashes" of water was not sufficiently resilient to protect it from prolonged direct contact and agitation with sweat.

It's also completely reasonable (though highly unlikely), to theorize that the phone might just have decided to fail at the very same moment in time - coincidentally to the sweat, and with symptoms we've seen so many times before that have proven directly related to water/moisture exposure. Still, if I had to place odds for bets against on one or the other, they would be very slim odds against the sweat and very large payoff against completely unrelated and coincidental failure.

Am I saying that I am right and everyone else is wrong...no, but what I am saying is that the evidence points strongly, dare I say irrefutably toward the moisture/sweat as the culpret in this failure. Did the salt in the sweat contribute to the failure? Well I can say it certainly wouldn't help. You will see in the last picture (if you click on it to zoom in), a corrosive actually created its own crystaline (dendrite) "bridge" conductor between two traces, effectively shorting out those two legs of that IC which is mounted on the reverse side of the board. Without microscopic inspection you would never know it's there, but at the voltages and current these things run, even a conductor that is microns thin and made of a salt-metal compound is enough to cause failure.

What's the moral of the story? Don't completely discount the opposing side's argument, as you may discover that a jury will see merit in it and find against you.

In this case, did the phone fail as a result of the sweat? I'll say I'd place my bet on it. Is it a valid warranty claim? Only Verizon and the insurance company that underwrites their warranty can make that determination. Does he return it and ask for replacement under warranty? Well, what's he got to lose? Does he tell them under what circumstances it failed and hope for the best? Without question. Honesty is the best policy in any situation. Be humble but be honest.

Just for reference, some examples of corrosion on circuit boards...

View attachment 51659View attachment 51660View attachment 51661

 

[Rogus]

Have no idea about cause of the phone issue or how the phone is built. However, I take my phone with me on 2-3+ hours of very sweaty bike rides. It's in a pocket in the back of my bike jersey. However, it's always inside of a sandwich baggie sealed tight. I'd never take a chance of letting sweat get on the phone. Sweat is pretty corrosive over time even if it doesn't manage to penetrate the shell of the phone. The OP might want to give that a try with the replacement phone.

 

[jakeace160]

I've got a 20 on foxkat anyone want done popcorn....our a slurpy

Sent from my RAZR MAXX... Or as I call him MAXXimus! Yea he's a gladiator.

 

[allawayr]

Have no idea about cause of the phone issue or how the phone is built. However, I take my phone with me on 2-3+ hours of very sweaty bike rides. It's in a pocket in the back of my bike jersey. However, it's always inside of a sandwich baggie sealed tight. I'd never take a chance of letting sweat get on the phone. Sweat is pretty corrosive over time even if it doesn't manage to penetrate the shell of the phone. The OP might want to give that a try with the replacement phone.

This is exactly what I do. After seeing what sweat can do to a bike on an indoor trainer, I am very careful to protect my phone with a (usually) fresh sandwich bag.

Do you run the Strava app?

 

[electricman58]

I've got a 20 on foxkat anyone want done popcorn....our a slurpy

Sent from my RAZR MAXX... Or as I call him MAXXimus! Yea he's a gladiator.

I GOT THE POPCORN!!!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Droid Forums

 

[altjx]

I've got a 20 on foxkat anyone want done popcorn....our a slurpy

Sent from my RAZR MAXX... Or as I call him MAXXimus! Yea he's a gladiator.

Haha that poor guy stepped on the wrong set of toes.

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk 2.

 

[nghy]

Check out an ARM BAND

After you get the replacement, check out an arm band. search Amazon.com there are several at reasonable prices.

 

[thaDroidz]

Haha that poor guy stepped on the wrong set of toes.

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk 2.

Lmfao

----posted MAXXED OUT WITH dessert----

 

[Ag3nt X]

Folks, we were trying to assist the OP in determining what may have caused his phone to fail and perhaps some suggestions to revive it.

It's completely reasonable to consider the possibility that the nano coating which was mean to protect the phone's internals from "Splashes" of water was not sufficiently resilient to protect it from prolonged direct contact and agitation with sweat.

It's also completely reasonable (though highly unlikely), to theorize that the phone might just have decided to fail at the very same moment in time - coincidentally to the sweat, and with symptoms we've seen so many times before that have proven directly related to water/moisture exposure. Still, if I had to place odds for bets against on one or the other, they would be very slim odds against the sweat and very large payoff against completely unrelated and coincidental failure.

Am I saying that I am right and everyone else is wrong...no, but what I am saying is that the evidence points strongly, dare I say irrefutably toward the moisture/sweat as the culpret in this failure. Did the salt in the sweat contribute to the failure? Well I can say it certainly wouldn't help.

What's the moral of the story? Don't completely discount the opposing side's argument, as you may discover that a jury will see merit in it and find against you.

In this case, did the phone fail as a result of the sweat? I'll say I'd place my bet on it. Is it a valid warranty claim? Only Verizon and the insurance company that underwrites their warranty can make that determination. Does he return it and ask for replacement under warranty? Well, what's he got to lose? Does he tell them under what circumstances it failed and hope for the best? Without question. Honesty is the best policy in any situation. Be humble but be honest.

Just for reference, some examples of corrosion on circuit boards...

View attachment 51659View attachment 51660View attachment 51661

Are you suggesting that the OP developed a Corrosion issue which shorted or degraded his phone during a 3 mile walk? I ask this because you focused your arguement heavily on salt in your rather brash reply to me earlier and your most recent post as well alludes to corrosion...

 

[nikecar]

we don't know how much the OP sweats

 

[Ag3nt X]

Is it that the Droid Razr Maxx and sweat dont mix? No hard jarring involved.

Had my new (less than 18 hours old) Droid Razr Maxx next to my skin while I was doing a 3 mile walk this morning. I sweated alot. Slacker Radio played during entire walk, had GPS on with a fitness app, and not much else other than usual email/text apps. When I finished the walk and retrieved the phone, the screen would not respond to my touch and it was flickering. Phone did not respond to the power key but later the screen went black. What could the problem be? I assumed the problem was too much moisture so I removed the SIM and SD card and have had it in rice bag 24 plus hours. I've tried several times during day and the screen still does not recognize my touch and the power key has no response. I done a forced reboot several times and it will power off/on and the screen will show, but touch not recognized and the power key down has no reaction. Battery decharged and plug it into charger and it was booted up when I checked on it later. Today I've tried a factory reboot and it is hung up and will not complete the reboot. I've exercised many times with my old Droid 3 next to my skin and never had any problems. Is the Razr Maxx so sensitive that the least bit of moisture will cause problems of this magnitude? Any suggestions?

Rest assured sweat is not even remotely a possible cause of your phones premature failure. Contact Verizon or who ever you got the phone from and explain exactly what happened and your defective device will be replaced.

[video=youtube;JLz-AB7tTb8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLz-AB7tTb8&feature=player_embedded[/video]#!

 

[Ag3nt X]

we don't know how much the OP sweats

And we don't need to know how much the OP sweats as you can clearly see in the video above it's actually irrelevant. BTW any of the "defects" you mention in your previous post replying to me would indicate that the OP's phone was none other then a defective device being that it is specifically designed to be "splash proof" and beyond.