Charger for the Turbo

[FoxKat]

I'd like to further chime in here... Since these phone are all now USB charging compliant, the expectation is that you will have several sources of USB power from which to charge the phone around your home and office. Any PC USB port is a suitable charging source for the Turbo. Any basic wall-wart that has USB ports on it is suitable (however I'd stick with known manufacturers rather than no-name China imports).

The Turbo charging feature wasn't meant so much as the "Normal" method of charging as it was a means to gaining a quick replenish of power for short periods of time to give you an extended operation when your battery is low. By charging your battery at a fast charge rate all the time you are stressing the battery unnecessarily.

From Battery University:

"
Avoid charging a battery faster than 1C; a more moderate charge rate of 0.7C is preferred. Manufacturers of electric powertrains are concerned about super-fast charging of 20 minutes and less. Similarly, harsh discharges should be avoided as also this also adds to battery stress. Read more about Charging Lithium-ion and Ultra-fast Chargers."

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

 

[bkdodger]

I'm just going to say one thing... Use your phones and chargers.. Stop worrying about battery life span.. You will out use that phone before it goes to CRAP.. Unless defective... Lol

Tap'd by Big 6

 

[AvaMichele]

I just logged in to get an answer on this very topic. I was under the impression that the turbo charger was the only acceptable way to charge. I will now be using it for quick charges, and my charger from my Maxx for overnight as was suggested by most. ( Luckily my husband prefers the Droid Qi for my old Maxx, as all of my old Moto chargers have gone with the phones )

 

[FoxKat]

I'm just going to say one thing... Use your phones and chargers.. Stop worrying about battery life span.. You will out use that phone before it goes to CRAP.. Unless defective... Lol

Tap'd by Big 6

I think that is true for most users, but for the power users on this and other forms it may not be so true. I've found that even my MAXX which is one year old is already showing significant reduction in capacity since even running completely stock after an FDR it doesn't last as long on one charge as it did just a few months ago.

 

[cr6]

It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things because batteries are going to lose their maximum battery life over the course of time REGARDLESS of how you use them. Most people aren't going to keep their device for 5-6 years. Most "power users" update phones every 1-2 years, and with a device that already lasts you well over a day, babying your battery simply to preserve an extra hour or two (after a year and a half of use) is pointless & counter productive anyway IMO.
As for the cost, that's my bad....I'm used to having a phone with a replaceable battery, and stock OEM Samsung batteries have always been between 15-20 dollars.

S5 tap'n

 

[CaptainSS]

I found post #3 particularly informative and insightful (early in the thread too!)

 

[FoxKat]

It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things because batteries are going to lose their maximum battery life over the course of time REGARDLESS of how you use them. Most people aren't going to keep their device for 5-6 years. Most "power users" update phones every 1-2 years, and with a device that already lasts you well over a day, babying your battery simply to preserve an extra hour or two (after a year and a half of use) is pointless & counter productive anyway IMO.
As for the cost, that's my bad....I'm used to having a phone with a replaceable battery, and stock OEM Samsung batteries have always been between 15-20 dollars.

S5 tap'n

I think you and I are basically in agreement, but there are slight nuances of difference of opinion. I agree that these LiPO batteries do lose capacity to hold a charge over time. It's a known fact that they have a shelf-life "regardless" of whether they are being used and charged or just sitting in a warehouse somewhere waiting to be put into service. They will only hold their rated capacity (whatever they test at), off the manufacturing production line, and immediately begin degrading over time.

I also agree that most people aren't going to keep their devices for 5-6 years, but here's where we have a slight difference of opinion. I have stood in Verizon Phone Center Stores and watched as people walked in with phones that were manufactured 3, 4, even 5 years ago and were just now trading them in for new ones, Some were hand-me-downs from dad/mom to son/daughter, some were hard-core "use till it dies" economy conscious people, and some were just people who didn't feel the need (until now), to replace their "old faithful". Those phones, most of which had LI batteries (not necessarily LiPO), were still in service and for the most part the batteries had lasted. Take those same batteries and run them through daily regimen of "Turbo Charging", and they would likely have reached a state of unusable (well below 80% of capacity), in 2 years.

So why am I preaching so heavily about preserving the batteries for the long-haul? Well, clearly it's not aimed at you @cr6 , nor is it at perhaps a large percentage of the members here who are to be considered "power users", and those who will, like you and I, replace their phones in that 1-2 year period (just replaced my Droid MAXX with the Droid Turbo), and those who may not notice an appreciable reduction in the lifespan of the battery over that timeframe. Still, even without "Turbo Charging" of my Droid MAXX, I DID in fact notice an appreciable reduction in the daily operation and runtime of the battery in that phone, and in just the one year (most notably in the last 3 months).

LiPO batteries are a very strange beast because they are being used in a very narrow range of "stable operation" between being too low a voltage and too high a voltage, either of which can result in catastrophic failure. Because of their very nature - that being a volatile chemical composition in an electrical application (electrochemical reaction), they must be handled more carefully than almost any other battery we are all used to, such as Lead-Acid (car battery, portable power tools, etc.), Nickel-Cadmium (portable power tools, portable electronics, etc.), Nickel Metal-Hydride (portable power tools, electronics, etc.).

Why have we not been more aware of the issues surrounding these batteries and why have we become so complacent regarding our charging practices? What has happened is that they have been so well managed by the charging circuitry in the devices that they are now so commonly found in (phones, tablets, laptops, power tools, etc.), that we are really blind (or desensitized), to the tiny incendiary device we're all carrying around in our pockets. Until the intervention of "Turbo charging", or more appropriately called Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0, we all had to suffer with slow charging for two very important reasons.

First, charging faster (which has always been an option but was shy'd away from by manufacturers), causes the battery to heat up and heat in these batteries (like in most anything), accelerates the decomposition or degradation of the device. Manufacturers have struggled with giving us everything we've been asking for...a slimmer, lighter phone that will charge quickly and last throughout the day. This has been perhaps the MAIN reason why charging has until now, been done at a very low rate, typically 750mAh or so. Second, charging faster, if not done under very careful monitoring and with sufficient protections in place to monitor battery voltage, temperature and resistance, can result in catastrophic failure, with potentially devastating consequences including possible property damage or bodily harm.

What changed to bring in Turbo Charging and why wasn't it here 2, 3 or more years ago? Well, what has happened is that the technology to "monitor" these batteries safely during automated and unattended charging has advanced to the point where it reached a profitable and efficient price-point ($34.99 Motorola Turbo Charger ), and so we now have "Turbo Charging". Although Turbo Charging is now entering the mainstream, that does NOT mean it's any less damaging to the battery than doing the same thing completely manually as has been the way of the RC crowd for years. It simply means that it's now being handled by the circuitry in such a manner that the risks to property or person have been reduced to below statistically significant levels and it's now considered "safe" to do so completely unattended such as overnight on your flammable wooden nightstand next to the highly flammable curtains and bedding (something that RC people would never responsibly do under manual rapid charging processes).

So to say that the rapid (*or quick/turbo), charging of these batteries does no appreciable harm to the batteries, and that "it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things", or to imply that because the manufacturer is now supplying it with the phone is proof it's no more harmful than the earlier low-rate chargers which came with last-year's phone is not really a fair statement, though I understand and agree with your reasoning and purpose for the statement. It's been proven through countless thousands and thousands of hours of lab testing that charging these batteries faster does in fact not just significantly, but dramatically reduce it's lifespan (time to "end of life", typically 80% of original rated capacity).

From Battery University;

Lithium-ion suffers from stress when exposed to heat, so does keeping a cell at a high charge voltage. A battery dwelling above 30°C (86°F) is considered elevated temperature and for most Li-ion, a voltage above 4.10V/cell is deemed as high voltage. Exposing the battery to high temperature and dwelling in a full state-of-charge for an extended time can be more stressful than cycling. Table 3 demonstrates capacity loss as a function of temperature and SoC.

Batteries are also exposed to elevated temperature when charging on wireless chargers [edit; and also now with 'Turbo Charging'. I'll prove that in a later posting.]. The energy transfer from a charging mat to a portable device is 70 to 80 percent and the remaining 20 to 30 percent is lost mostly in heat that is transferred to the battery through the mat. We keep in mind that the mat will cool down once the battery is fully charged. Read more about Charging Without Wires.

Avoid charging a battery faster than 1C; a more moderate charge rate of 0.7C is preferred. Manufacturers of electric powertrains are concerned about super-fast charging of 20 minutes and less. Similarly, harsh discharges should be avoided as also this also adds to battery stress. Read more about Charging Lithium-ion and Ultra-fast Chargers.​

So what I am saying in a nutshell is, if you want to continue to get the most daily usable operation out of your battery and for the longest time (i.e. if you plan to keep this phone for more than perhaps a year), you would benefit by only doing "Turbo Charging" when your battery is low, and you need that rapid boost to get you through an extended period of time where you won't have access to a USB power source. Otherwise, I recommend using the STOCK Motorola USB Charging Cable and plug into a USB port on a PC, using an earlier version of a "Wall-Wart", such as the one that may have come with your last phone, the new dual-purpose USB home outlet adapters, the USB Accessory port that's on most newer car consoles, a USB Charger adapter for the 12 Volt Accessory port in a car, or similar adapters, or that nifty portable power pack that you'll get for Christmas this year (or possibly got last), and toss the "Turbo Charger" in your back-pack, bag, car console or glove compartment, so you have it with you for those infrequent quick boost needs.

 

[FoxKat]

Well, you can't replace the battery. If you could easily replace it I would say who cares how the charger effects it. But that isn't the case. No need to use the quick charger overnight of its fully charged either way in the morning.
I charge it overnight with my old charger just in case.
I only use the quick charge if I need a quick charge.

THIS ^ is exactly what I am saying. Well-put.

 

[FoxKat]

According to the Motorola website:

"Our optimized battery charging algorithm enables turbo charging while maintaining good battery cycle life."

And again, I agree, however "good battery cycle life" is a comment that is subject to interpretation and each individual's own usage profile.

What is "good battery cycle life"? Well to some, it's a battery that lasts throughout one entire day while surfing, texting, streaming, photo/video'ing, and communicating by phone without needing a boost or recharge, and will last until they replace the phone at the 2 year anniversary (when they're next eligible for an upgrade from their cellular carrier). To others, it's a battery that will last as long as 2 days on stand-by without much use, so that they can have a phone ready for use at a moment's notice and won't really use it for much else during that time. To still others, it's a battery that will still operate relatively the same in 3 or 4 years as it does when it's new, because they don't have the funds to do upgrades every 1 or 2 years as some of us do.

So to take a statement that is so vague and use it to imply that "Turbo Charging" is just as safe to the life of the battery as earlier slow-charging is really a stretch. Truth is "good battery cycle life" is based on the "average user's typical usage profile and expected performance". So perhaps for the larger percentage of users, it's going to give them "good battery cycle life", however for a significant percentage of users it will result in diminished performance over time.

 

[bkdodger]

@FoxKat.. I didn't read the last few only bc I'm drinking now and my mind might not comprehend all.. Hehe
But I have a better solution for y'all..

Phone = removable battery .. ☺

Tap'd by Big 6

 

[FoxKat]

@FoxKat.. I didn't read the last few only bc I'm drinking now and my mind might not comprehend all.. Hehe
But I have a better solution for y'all..

Phone = removable battery .. ☺

Tap'd by Big 6

ROFLOL. Well, it wasn't written with those under the influence in mind... ;-)

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[cr6]

But I have a better solution for y'all..
Phone = removable battery .. ☺
Tap'd by Big 6

LOL @bkdodger
Exactly! Just one more reason why I don't bother with phones that don't have removable batteries. You shouldn't have to "baby" your battery or worry about having it last because you're using the charger that.... wait for it......



Wait for it.......




Came with the phone!
You're paying 6-8 hundred dollars for a new phone, there's absolutely no reason manufacturers shouldn't be making removable batteries the standard on all phones these days. (Unless of course your name is Apple)


S5 tap'n

 

[FoxKat]

Just one snap from charging with the Turbo charger for me. I'll be posting a full run from 0% to 100% with incremental values and temperature later today. The heat generated during Turbo charging is what concerns me. According to Battery University, 85 degrees is considered "elevated" for purposes of battery longevity so these temperatures are certainly doing some Long-term damage. How much damage is being done can only be determined over time with careful monitoring in a lab setting, something I'm not prepared to do.

 

[cr6]

That being said, you can regularly get those temps (and higher) simply by running many apps we all use on a daily basis.

S5 tap'n

 

[FoxKat]

That being said, you can regularly get those temps (and higher) simply by running many apps we all use on a daily basis.

S5 tap'n

Agreed, but my point is why I put the battery through more stress than it needs to be. If you're charging overnight, it only takes a couple of hours longer to charge with the standard charger than with the turbocharger. And unless you only sleep for an hour and a half at night, it shouldn't impact your life any to use the standard charger for overnight charges.

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