Boycott Samsung over KNOX!

[tech_head]

Hi,

Here's a unique idea.
Let's pass the word to boycott Samsung over the whole KNOX fiasco.
Use social media, ie. twitter, facebook, etc. to pass the word.
Tell everyone you know not to buy a Samsung phone this holiday season.

The only thing that will make companies take notice is if we take action.

1. Just the attempt to downgrade firmware or load unauthorized firmware triggers KNOX in 4.3 and voids your warranty.
2. Now that's not bad enough, because even if you now load a signed piece of firmware KNOX still stays triggered.
3. If my warranty is now void, I should be able to do what I want, but nooooo, my bootloader is still locked and I have no warranty.

So Samsung should fix this. Just trying to do something should not void my warranty, especially since they block the possibility of being able to change the bootloader.

This is not Samsung's device.
Everyone does not need nor want KNOX and those that need it, know it.
The majority of devices are not enterprise, so why are they forcing an enterprise and NSA solution down our throats!

BOYCOTT SAMSUNG!!!

 

[brobox]

How many people don't root that KNOX would stop them from buying a GS4? I think it is very small percentage. I saw the lines on Black Friday for GS4's and KNOX didn't shorten the lines a bit. Most buyers including me don't have a clue about KNOX. JMO.

 

[Dalvik_Cache]

What is Knox and whats is Samsung up to?

I think this is a pretty good time to open up a bit of discussion on Knox, and what it is/does. In Samsung's version of 4.3 they set the SE Linux Policy to "enforcing". Lets talk about what that means. Basically, the SE Linux Kernel (Security Enhanced) was developed by the National Security Agency for the DoD and others. The whole premise is that you can have a "policy" that controls how the system behaves, what a user can do, what applications can be installed, etc. Think of it as a group policy on Windows for Linux. Now then, having said that, Samsung is (in my humble opinion) trying to position themselves in the market to crush Blackberry. Currently Blackberry is the only real competitor in the Enterprise communications market. This is due to the very closed and secure nature of the Blackberry platform, and the ability for an admin to control the policy on the phones via a Blackberry Enterprise Server.

So what is Knox then? Im glad you asked! Knox is a Samsung application that is somewhat of a layer on top of the SE Kernel that allows the same phone to be used for both personal and business. Essentially Knox creates a seperate encrypted "volume" to store all of your work on, so that its safe and secure when running on play mode. To ensure the safety and integrity of Knox platform Samsung had to enforce SE Kernel policy. Lastly, there are already exploits to root the 4.3 update. You are correct that you can't currently change the boot loader, but you can root. So, Ill leave you with my OPINION, and let everyone else chime in.

• Only a very, very small percentage of Android users root their phones, unlock their boot loaders, or modify their phones (or even desire to), etc.
• Of those, an even smaller group actually want anything other than root.
• Samsung stands to gain billions in profit if they can pull this off.
• There are other options in the world besides Samsung.

So, I think what Samsung is doing is innovative, and very profitable. It might be sour to those of use who are techies, but sometimes you have to rough up some of the crowd for the greater good of the company. So, Im all for it.

 

[FoxKat]

I think this is a pretty good time to open up a bit of discussion on Knox, and what it is/does. In Samsung's version of 4.3 they set the SE Linux Policy to "enforcing". Lets talk about what that means. Basically, the SE Linux Kernel (Security Enhanced) was developed by the National Security Agency for the DoD and others. The whole premise is that you can have a "policy" that controls how the system behaves, what a user can do, what applications can be installed, etc. Think of it as a group policy on Windows for Linux. Now then, having said that, Samsung is (in my humble opinion) trying to position themselves in the market to crush Blackberry. Currently Blackberry is the only real competitor in the Enterprise communications market. This is due to the very closed and secure nature of the Blackberry platform, and the ability for an admin to control the policy on the phones via a Blackberry Enterprise Server.

So what is Knox then? Im glad you asked! Knox is a Samsung application that is somewhat of a layer on top of the SE Kernel that allows the same phone to be used for both personal and business. Essentially Knox creates a seperate encrypted "volume" to store all of your work on, so that its safe and secure when running on play mode. To ensure the safety and integrity of Knox platform Samsung had to enforce SE Kernel policy. Lastly, there are already exploits to root the 4.3 update. You are correct that you can't currently change the boot loader, but you can root. So, Ill leave you with my OPINION, and let everyone else chime in.

• Only a very, very small percentage of Android users root their phones, unlock their boot loaders, or modify their phones (or even desire to), etc.
• Of those, an even smaller group actually want anything other than root.
• Samsung stands to gain billions in profit if they can pull this off.
• There are other options in the world besides Samsung.

So, I think what Samsung is doing is innovative, and very profitable. It might be sour to those of use who are techies, but sometimes you have to rough up some of the crowd for the greater good of the company. So, Im all for it.

WOW. I'm floored (Get out the snow plow...FoxKat is stuck to the concrete again!)

So tell me, all wonderous and wise Mandy, are you saying that they're essentially trying to give us the best of both worlds, a secure device that can be controlled via a "profile" policy on one side for Work purposes (such as me, a Mortgage Banker whose client information is extremely sensitive), and allow it to reside on the phone along side my personal "profile", and both let the ADMIN for our IT have the ability to wipe out the Secure Profile without disrupting the Persona Profile? If that's the case, then BRING IT ON!!!

I had a PALM, and was working for a bank. One day, I was on the way to work and unbeknownst to me, the company was in the midst of layoffs...guess who was getting laid off too (yeah...downsizing). Anyway, I got to the office only to find out that the phone had been wiped clean. NOTHING, not my business contacts, email, files, OR my personal contacts, photos, personal files...NOTHING was left. It took me 6 months and lots of threatening letters including one from my attorney before they pulled the backups from the system, parsed out my personal data and burned it onto a DVD for me.

If KNOX would prevent that from happening, I think it's THE ONLY way they can un-seat Blackberry and do it even better.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong...I'm a big boy, I can take it! LOL! :biggrin:

 

[Dalvik_Cache]

WOW. I'm floored (Get out the snow plow...FoxKat is stuck to the concrete again!)

So tell me, all wonderous and wise Mandy, are you saying that they're essentially trying to give us the best of both worlds, a secure device that can be controlled via a "profile" policy on one side for Work purposes (such as me, a Mortgage Banker whose client information is extremely sensitive), and allow it to reside on the phone along side my personal "profile", and both let the ADMIN for our IT have the ability to wipe out the Secure Profile without disrupting the Persona Profile? If that's the case, then BRING IT ON!!!

I had a PALM, and was working for a bank. One day, I was on the way to work and unbeknownst to me, the company was in the midst of layoffs...guess who was getting laid off too (yeah...downsizing). Anyway, I got to the office only to find out that the phone had been wiped clean. NOTHING, not my business contacts, email, files, OR my personal contacts, photos, personal files...NOTHING was left. It took me 6 months and lots of threatening letters including one from my attorney before they pulled the backups from the system, parsed out my personal data and burned it onto a DVD for me.

If KNOX would prevent that from happening, I think it's THE ONLY way they can un-seat Blackberry and do it even better.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong...I'm a big boy, I can take it! LOL! :biggrin:

Nope, that is more or less the deal. Dead on! The idea is that you can manage your personal data, and your company can manage your non-personal data. If you choose to not use it for business you simply don't setup Knox in the first place. They really worked hard to make sure all of the niceties are available to prevent people from "needing" to root in the first place.

 

[FoxKat]

Nope, that is more or less the deal. Dead on! The idea is that you can manage your personal data, and your company can manage your non-personal data. If you choose to not use it for business you simply don't setup Knox in the first place. They really worked hard to make sure all of the niceties are available to prevent people from "needing" to root in the first place.

I'm beside myself...I actually got it the first time from you. And knowing you like I do (she's amazing people), I am 100% confident what you've said is spot on.

Now I don't know if I'll fit through the doorways in my home with this newly expanded head of mine...my brain is fried! LOL!

 

[jpcalhoun]

Nope, that is more or less the deal. Dead on! The idea is that you can manage your personal data, and your company can manage your non-personal data. If you choose to not use it for business you simply don't setup Knox in the first place. They really worked hard to make sure all of the niceties are available to prevent people from "needing" to root in the first place.

Maybe Samsung has made changes to Knox in 4.3, but my experience with Knox when I was running 4.2 was a little different in terms of "setting up Knox" if you're not going to use it for business. I'm running a Dev Edition S4 and I don't recall an "opportunity" to set-up Knox or not set-up Knox (I use my phone for business but not in a enterprise environment). Knox was on the phone and alive and well. As soon as I rooted the phone I began to immediately get a continuous flow of messages telling me that an app was present that presented a danger to the proper operation of the phone. I understand that the warning was prompted by the fact that I had rooted the phone, but I guess my point is there was no set-up process, it was already running. Eliminating the warnings was not difficult. I just went into systems folder, found anything named "Knox" and renamed it. Interruptions eliminated.

I have to agree with Brobox, the likely hood that consumers wanting to purchase an S4 will rethink their choice and purchase a different manufactures phone is pretty remote IMO.

 

[tech_head]

It's not the KNOX stuff on top. It's the lock down. It's voiding the warranty. Forget about the top layer of apps. KNOX is now baked in at the bootloader.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[phil72]

So just to clarify what I'm actually only concerned about, you can root your s4 running 4.3 and you'll get warnings via the knox app only to warn you etc.? Rooting won't cause issues with anything else related to phones normal operations, other than void warranty I'd assume?!
Just trying to make sure I totally understand the importance of the knox app as I'm new to the whole rooting thing & I've already paid a price literally for not understanding everything regarding rooting, I was a dedicated IPhone user for many years prior to the s3 being released and I could jailbreak, unlock etc. using these phones but Android was a whole new ballgame. I'm extremely glad I switched from the iPhone to Android when the s3 released I will never go back nor quit using Android phones I love it, however I have had one experience that cost me my phone etc.
I had someone who was very experienced root my gs3 for $40 only to have it Hard Brick on me 4 day's later due to my lack of knowledge, I'd installed CWM as well as Titanium Backup when I clicked backup using the CWM the phone went black it was totally unresponsive to reset, a jig, etc. I sent it to tech department only to be informed $250 to repair, my other option was $300.00 to break my contract with a year & a half left on it. So terminated my contract got a new 2 year contract with gs4 & free gift of the galaxy gear watch (I love both the s4 & watch is kinda cool) lol so I paid $300 total so extra $50 got me new phone, watch, & 2 year not 3 year contract.
Now I'd love to root my s4 only to move my movable apps to my SD card to save space on the internal as it's already at 9.5gb out of the 16gb, I've been doing my reading etc. regarding rooting what not to do etc. but now I'm curious about this knox craps which I don't need as I wouldn't use it for work purposes at all this phone is totally for personal use.
Any info would be great as to rooting my s4 with the knox app installed, or any info at all to keep me from wrecking my s4 if I do my wife would divorce me & I'd never get another phone. Lol sorry such a long post/story just wanted to be totally clear on the whole situation. Thanks Phil

 

[GVLBob]

These days, if you want to root, it should be for a very specific reason. You can already move the "movable"apps to your SD card without root, so that shouldn't be one of the reasons. One can also install 3rd party launchers that allow lots of customization.

Why exactly do you want to root?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[phil72]

Well I've moved apps, music, etc. already that say they can be moved, however it's like they stay in both your phone storage and your SD storage. I say this only because I've used 9+gb of space out of the 16gb and less then that on my external storage, I was doing this obviously to keep space for apps that need to stay on internal storage and figure it helps with how much memory or whatever you use always.
I'm going to do some more reading up on the s4 & storage, moving apps, etc. to get a better grasp on it all, maybe I'll be able to learn a few things and somewhat know what I'm doing here & there.

 

[GVLBob]

Well I've moved apps, music, etc. already that say they can be moved, however it's like they stay in both your phone storage and your SD storage. I say this only because I've used 9+gb of space out of the 16gb and less then that on my external storage, I was doing this obviously to keep space for apps that need to stay on internal storage and figure it helps with how much memory or whatever you use always.
I'm going to do some more reading up on the s4 & storage, moving apps, etc. to get a better grasp on it all, maybe I'll be able to learn a few things and somewhat know what I'm doing here & there.

When you "move" the app, you really only move part of the app. It can reduce the space they take up on the Device Storage, but not eliminate it. Some apps can't be moved.

The real problem is with pictures and music. Those you will definitely want to put on your SD card. And the data for any games you have (if the games doesn't do so automatically). Once you do that, I think the need to move apps to the SD card goes away.

 

[phil72]

Yeah I keep any music, pic's, videos etc. that I can on my SD card to help with space on internal storage. I'll just stick it out as long as I can then when I feel comfortable with the whole rooting thing I'll get it done, then I'll be able to move some apps over to give me some more space on the internal storage. I have installed Nova Launcher, Go Launcher etc. are in a folder so if/when I want to change it up I can. I'm using Nova at the moment it's not too bad, the only problem is I'm into electronic gadgets & what they're capable of such as this customizing your phone making it look, act etc. the way you want so it's that much harder for me to sit and wait I'm like a kid in a candy store when it comes to this stuff the candy is within reach but I'm not allowed to touch it! Lol the only analogy I could come up with. :