Battery Drain - WHEN OFF

[Donkey Hodie]

Lithium-Ion batteries will loose charge if they are doing nothing and turned off. This is not a defect this is how the batteries work as of current technology. Though this should be a very minute amount of charge, which shouldn't really be noticed.

1-2%??

Are you just spitting out numbers or have you experienced this?

Quoted from Wikipedia:

Lithium-ion batteries do not suffer from the memory effect. They also have a self-discharge rate of approximately 5-10% per month

 

[New2u]

This is the same thing my laptop does. After re reading it, i should have more clearly stated that, keeping the phone off the charger and off, most likely will never dip past 1%, but if it did anything past 2%, i would get weary of the battery. If you leave your phone off for a couple days it will not be at 100%, that's just how batteries work. There was another article here, and one of the links from it explained it in alot better detail. I can't find it at the moment though.

The same thing happens in my laptop, if i leave it off, which i do occasionally, for a couple of days when i pop it back on, it will not be at 100%. The main point though was that batteries will drain even when not on, but 40% was way too much.

 

[Terra]

WTF, below is info pasted from wikipedia, it appears the excessive heat that the droid sometimes produces may be causing the battery to age rapidly. Of major interest is the explanation of the self discharge actually being permanent loss of capacity!

• Lithium-ion batteries do not suffer from the memory effect. They also have a self-discharge rate of approximately 5-10% per month, compared with over 30% per month in common nickel metal hydride batteries, approx. 1.25% per month for Low Self-Discharge NiMH batteries and 10% per month in nickel-cadmium batteries.[31] According to one manufacturer, Li-ion cells (and, accordingly, "dumb" Li-ion batteries) do not have any self-discharge in the usual meaning of this word.[21] What looks like a self-discharge in these batteries is a permanent loss of capacity (see below). On the other hand, "smart" Li-ion batteries do self-discharge, mainly due to the small constant drain of the built-in voltage monitoring circuit.

[edit] Disadvantages of traditional Li-ion technology

[edit] Shelf life

• A disadvantage of lithium-ion cells lies in their relatively poor cycle life: upon every (re)charge, deposits form inside the electrolyte that inhibit lithium ion transport, resulting in the capacity of the cell to diminish. The increase in internal resistance affects the cell's ability to deliver current, thus the problem is more pronounced in high-current than low-current applications. The increasing capacity hit means that a full charge in an older battery will not last as long as one in a new battery (although the charging time required decreases proportionally, as well).
• Also, high charge levels and elevated temperatures (whether resulting from charging or being ambient) hasten permanent capacity loss for lithium-ion batteries.[32][33] The heat generated during a charge cycle is caused by the traditional carbon anode, which has been replaced with good results by lithium titanate. Lithium titanate has been experimentally shown to drastically reduce the degenerative effects associated with charging, including expansion and other factors.[34] See "Improvements of lithium-ion technology" below.
• At a 100% charge level, a typical Li-ion laptop battery that is full most of the time at 25 °C or 77 °F will irreversibly lose approximately 20% capacity per year. However, a battery in a poorly ventilated laptop may be subject to a prolonged exposure to much higher temperatures, which will significantly shorten its life. Different storage temperatures produce different loss results: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, 15% at 0, 25 and 40 degrees Celsius respectively.[35][citation needed]

• Lithium-ion batteries should never be depleted below their minimum voltage (2.4 to 2.8 V/cell, depending on chemistry). If a lithium-ion battery is stored with too low a charge, there is a risk that the charge will drop below the low-voltage threshold, resulting in an unrecoverable dead battery.[citation needed] Usually this does not instantly damage the battery itself but a charger or device which uses that battery will refuse to charge a dead battery. The battery appears to be dead or not existent because the protection circuit disables further discharging and there is zero voltage on the battery terminals.

• Lithium-ion batteries should be kept cool. Ideally they are stored in a refrigerator.[citation needed]
• Aging will take its toll much faster at high temperatures.[38]

 

[silverx10]

Is the only sure fire answer to remove the battery???

I'd imagine so, yeah. Though I'm not entirely sure what malevolent forces are at work draining certain batteries in certain phones whilst offline but leaving others just fine... I do know that while the leads from batteries are currently interfacing with a conductive material, they'll... well... discharge.

At least... 's the principle I learned with typical non-rechargeable types.

 

[New2u]

Is the only sure fire answer to remove the battery???

I'd imagine so, yeah. Though I'm not entirely sure what malevolent forces are at work draining certain batteries in certain phones whilst offline but leaving others just fine... I do know that while the leads from batteries are currently interfacing with a conductive material, they'll... well... discharge.

At least... 's the principle I learned with typical non-rechargeable types.

Doesn't matter if the battery is in the unit, out of the unit, it will still drain at the same rate. The drainage rate is independent of whether or not it's in something. It may drain faster though if in something. I have tested this with my laptop battery. The drain still occurred even if the battery was not in the laptop.

 

[Trever1t]

SO i repalced the battery under Verizon warranty. Good customer service there. I left it on the charger overnight and today will keep it off the charger until drained significantly (should be easy ) and then fully charge, disconnect, turn off and see what happens. A 1-3% drop wouldn't concern me in the slightest, it wouldn't even be measurable but 40% is way too much.

Not my first Li Ion battery, have them in other phones, camcorders etc. None have ever drained like that. Now to reiterate, this was the one and only time this ever occurred and I routinely turn off my device at full charge before I sleep. I don't want to be awakened with a wrong number or VM alert

 

[Trever1t]

First night report, Battery has maintained a full charge...well it reads 100%

Observation: It runs hotter than before when running apps or games.

 

[Trever1t]

Battery held a full charge again, over night. I also note that this battery seems to hold a charge better (longer). With minimal use I'm at better than 70% after 12 hours. This is with GPS and bluetooth disabled, some use of wifi.

 

[Gunghoray]

Had this happen to me using the multimedia dock. Discovered later that it wasn't SEATED on the charger properly. When you place the Droid in the dock, the magnets automatically put it in Dock mode. On my old Storm and MotoQ docks, it was the USB connection that put it in another mode. Not so here. It'll be in Dock mode even if it isn't charging.

Don't know if this even remotely addresses your issue, but it does cause me to double-check the battery icon to insure there is a lightning bolt through it when docked. That means it's charging.

Prof Ray
Recovering Storm Abuser

 

[Trever1t]

No, interesting but not related. I had a battery drain when laying on my table, completely shut down, not sleep or in dock. Since replacing the battery it hasn't repeated and my battery life is better than before.

 

[Gunghoray]

That's good news. So it was a battery problem all the way. Thanks for your "gracious" response. That's why I really like this forum.

Prof Ray
Recovering Storm Abuser

 

[Trever1t]

So far so good.

 

[Trever1t]

Still holding charge when off...seems they may have had a bad batch of batteries on the first shipment? I ordered mine the morning of release.

 

[lhfarm]

Still have the draining when shut down problem

I asked and recieved a new battery after reading this string. It did not cure the problem. Interestingly, leaving the phone on over night drained the battery only 10%. Shuting it down completely drains it.

I'm wondering if they really did give me a new battery. It was 80% charged when they put it in. Should I go back and ask for a third battery.

Barry

 

[New2u]

I asked and recieved a new battery after reading this string. It did not cure the problem. Interestingly, leaving the phone on over night drained the battery only 10%. Shuting it down completely drains it.

I'm wondering if they really did give me a new battery. It was 80% charged when they put it in. Should I go back and ask for a third battery.

Barry

Usually new batteries aren't charged with even 80% charge. Usually 50% is the norm. When i got my battery from verizon it was 50%.